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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Someone who is better at explaining Bethesda's politics, I had read: I think they and a lot of other nerds just like the idea of a lone cowboy/samurai/sickass martial artist wandering into a small western town/village/outland commune, having a crazy adventure there, and then walking off into the sunset to the next adventure. It gets much harder to have those kinds of adventures when you're in a full blown civilization.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:23
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Clip-On Fedora posted:I think they and a lot of other nerds just like the idea of a lone cowboy/samurai/sickass martial artist wandering into a small western town/village/outland commune, having a crazy adventure there, and then walking off into the sunset to the next adventure. It gets much harder to have those kinds of adventures when you're in a full blown civilization. but it doesn't exclude there being civilization, just areas where it hasn't fully soaked in yet. samurai and cowboys could only exist because if you walk far enough in one direction, eventually there'd be civilization. constantly resetting the setting is boring (speaking from experience with other stories, again I’m unfamiliar with fallout)
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Apr 14, 2024 18:29
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Al! posted:the vault dweller being a stand in for rich libs and telling everyone that they should care about their dumb little rich person project i thought was pretty good writing I like how all the wastelanders hate the Vault dwellers and think theyre rich morons, that's a nice touch I don't really remember being present in the games as much
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Apr 14, 2024 18:30
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indigi posted:but it doesn't exclude there being civilization, just areas where it hasn't fully soaked in yet. samurai and cowboys could only exist because if you walk far enough in one direction, eventually there'd be civilization It's often been jokingly speculated that the rest of the world is not nearly as hosed up post-war as the US is and obviously a Fallout set outside of the US is silly to speculate about because the US culture is baked into the DNA of the series and if you alter it you get fundamentally different things... like STALKER
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Apr 14, 2024 18:31
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StashAugustine posted:I like how all the wastelanders hate the Vault dwellers and think theyre rich morons, that's a nice touch I don't really remember being present in the games as much in the bethesda games when you tell people youre a vault dweller they either warn you not to tell anyone else that or theyre very happy to see you lol
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Apr 14, 2024 18:37
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StashAugustine posted:I like how all the wastelanders hate the Vault dwellers and think theyre rich morons, that's a nice touch I don't really remember being present in the games as much it also makes sense in the show since the only integrated vault we see is Vault 4. Its why Goosey gets called a fishfucker by the old cackling crone.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:38
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it's easier to churn slop when the background setting is static or otherwise very simple. And civilizations are not simple. Destroyed wastelands meanwhile are as empty a canvas as you can get. Before nuclear bombs, westerns occupied the exact same niche*. I'm guessing a lot of samurai stories also occupied that space because their background was one of a collapsing society. These empty canvases can let writers project all sorts of things onto it. Many times those things are reactionary. *like westerns at their worst just being white man's burden bullshit
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Apr 14, 2024 18:44
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Why is the idea of stasis attractive, when we know historically that society always emerges in some form, and usually in greater complexity, after a shorter period of time? People like what they know. It's much more accessible when you can enter the Commonwealth Wasteland and you see Minutemen and familiar landmarks. Even if it probably doesn't make sense after 200 years, it's easier for the audience to get into. Compare this to the Mojave where you have a bunch of morally ambiguous political powers vying for control. Those powers maybe more nuanced, or provide interesting commentary on Neoliberalism, Divine-right Fascism, etc - but it's not nearly as obvious to new players. For better or worse, Bethesda knows how to make broad-appeal astronaut food that's edible, even if it's not memorable (see Starfield). As for re-nuking the Wastelands to reinforce the message of 'War Never Changes', that idea is fine. Hopefully that's a narrative that the viewer gets to see in action, instead of it happening off screen to reset story pieces.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:50
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I feel like the show kinda hinges on the bit 30 minutes in where a bunch of raiders take off their disguises to reveal Mad Max fetish gear. It makes no actual logical sense but it's part of the aesthetic, and you kinda either have to accept that it's that kinda show or just turn it off and do something else
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Apr 14, 2024 18:52
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I started watching the rehearsal and its a little bit over designed and less funny than Nathan for you but the structure+craft is awe inspiring.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:54
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In Training posted:I started watching the rehearsal and its a little bit over designed and less funny than Nathan for you but the structure+craft is awe inspiring. yeah id say it starts that way then just goes down a very dark path
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Apr 14, 2024 18:56
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Tankbuster posted:Its interesting you say the paragon of knightliness is supposed to be inhuman. The two most traditionally Knightly characters in the 3D games (to the extent that people call them badly written for not being morally corruptible) are Sarah Lyons and Paladin Danse. The former is a martyr and the latter is a rescued Synthetic human slave who has his memories erased. Being a companion you can meet, the latter is quite literally a knight on a quest with two squires making a heroic last stand when you meet him. Should you choose to interact with him, he offers you a place in his knightly order if you choose to help him. His story ends with him being banished from his knightly order (after of course you get in thanks to him) because the biggest paragon of that particular blend of virtue you meet is literally a human being built to have less physical flaws in postapocalyptic america. That's really interesting, thanks. Skimming the wiki, Danse seems to be a Galahad figure, and his story is better written than I'd expect from Bethesda these days. Seems really neat.
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Apr 14, 2024 19:20
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Tankbuster posted:because the stasis in this case makes for more unique setting to set videogames in? Even if society rebounds, the source materials the series draws from are largely 50s era sci-fi. Chronicles of Liebowitz states that humanity is bound to destroy itself over and over. A boy and his dog is about doing hosed up things in the apocalypse. The specter of the old world hangs upon the new like a monster under the bed. In the show the monster comes out and is revealed. chronicles of liebowitz sounds badass
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Apr 14, 2024 19:48
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vin diesel in friar's robes "canticle? or wonticle?"
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Apr 14, 2024 19:53
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DarkLich posted:People like what they know. It's much more accessible when you can enter the Commonwealth Wasteland and you see Minutemen and familiar landmarks. Even if it probably doesn't make sense after 200 years, it's easier for the audience to get into. Compare this to the Mojave where you have a bunch of morally ambiguous political powers vying for control. Those powers maybe more nuanced, or provide interesting commentary on Neoliberalism, Divine-right Fascism, etc - but it's not nearly as obvious to new players. For better or worse, Bethesda knows how to make broad-appeal astronaut food that's edible, even if it's not memorable (see Starfield). By popular front rules the mojave is china during the warlord era. The best hope for a future is the NCR because the other powers are dogmeat general, qing era holdovers with funny wheeled robots or ancom/ancap bullshit. The most sophisticated theme of FNV is in old world blues where the moral is letting things go and build something new. People don't talk about that part remotely enough when it comes to thematic depth. It's always "NCR flawed but ultimately good, I want to see more election ballot stuffing for my mature political drama." The guy who directed Morrowind doesn't need have a chip on his shoulders regarding the deep grim mature storytelling of fallout New Vegas. 36 lessons of Vivec was a game nearly a decade before new vegas came out. scary ghost dog posted:chronicles of liebowitz sounds badass Its one of those mid tier sci-fis that hammer the theme home and a fun yarn to read. Morrowind is basically dune crossed with theosophy/crowley and a dash of hinduism. Its fine to recombine things together.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:and again with character behaviors not making sense: vaults 32 & 33 only interact on occasion to exchange goods and mating pairs, and it’s something they’ve always done. shouldn’t they notice that none of vaults 32’s representatives are recognizable? They said they schedule the trade for every 30 years pretty clearly. Maybe you couldn't hear it because you were thinking about plot holes too hard.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:16
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Tankbuster posted:Its one of those mid tier sci-fis that hammer the theme home and a fun yarn to read. Morrowind is basically dune crossed with theosophy/crowley and a dash of hinduism. Its fine to recombine things together. hmm is it anything like the famous book “a canticle for liebowitz”
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Apr 14, 2024 20:20
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scary ghost dog posted:hmm is it anything like the famous book “a canticle for liebowitz” no
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Apr 14, 2024 20:25
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After reading the threads I went in expecting a long, one-take sequence of Todd Howard taking a massive poo poo on Brian Fargo's upturned face. Watched the first two episodes of the Fallout show and it's fine? Just a regular high-budget sci-fi show??
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Apr 14, 2024 20:29
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Son of Sorrow posted:After reading the threads I went in expecting a long, one-take sequence of Todd Howard taking a massive poo poo on Brian Fargo's upturned face. Watched the first two episodes of the Fallout show and it's fine? Just a regular high-budget sci-fi show?? still, its been a spirited discussion. points all around
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Apr 14, 2024 20:31
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Well duh. When the regular cast of "this show is woke trash and deservedly failed" people don't turn up you know its worth a gander at least.Al! posted:still, its been a spirited discussion. points all around Shogun ep can't come out soon enough.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:32
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Son of Sorrow posted:After reading the threads I went in expecting a long, one-take sequence of Todd Howard taking a massive poo poo on Brian Fargo's upturned face. Watched the first two episodes of the Fallout show and it's fine? Just a regular high-budget sci-fi show??  . I think Al! is generally right about the inconsistency of wanting to be Westworldian prestige but also goofy. but it's fine. certainly much better than Foundation or Rings of Power or Wheel of Time or whatever that Bezos has produced recently that were dreadfully dull
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Apr 14, 2024 20:37
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Fighting Elegy posted:They said they schedule the trade for every 30 years pretty clearly. Maybe you couldn't hear it because you were thinking about plot holes too hard. They would recognize each other immediately anyway since the leadership all comes from Vault 31, and they were VaultTec jr execs together
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Apr 14, 2024 20:37
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Oh there's a show about Foundation? Hmm.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:38
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Tankbuster posted:The guy who directed Morrowind doesn't need have a chip on his shoulders regarding the deep grim mature storytelling of fallout New Vegas. 36 lessons of Vivec was a game nearly a decade before new vegas came out. I agree, Morrowind was a success in building something unique. This point reinforces my original argument about why creatives stick to more static (aka known quantity) settings, though. Following Morrowind, the Elder Scrolls went to two decidedly tamer locations. Ones that were based on the audience's standard perception of fantasy worlds, not one full of alien creatures and dunmer house politics. Considering that Bethesda continues to develop in this direction, I assume this a more successful formula.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:39
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busalover posted:Oh there's a show about Foundation? Hmm.
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Apr 14, 2024 20:43
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:They would recognize each other immediately anyway since the leadership all comes from Vault 31, and they were VaultTec jr execs together There were a lot of execs that bud handpicked from all across america. Hank recognizes moldaver only after all hell breaks loose. Edit: Yeah I wrote chronicle instead of canticle. I shall henceforth never phonepost again Tankbuster has issued a correction as of 20:53 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 20:44
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Xaris posted:it was more dull than reading about goons talking about fastfood or costco. 0/10 don't recommend yep, made it ~4 eps in
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Apr 14, 2024 21:16
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finding myself watching a movie from 1992, leap of faith, that stars steve martin, liam neeson, and meatloaf?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Apr 14, 2024 21:21
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i really liked A Canticle for Leibowitz
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Apr 14, 2024 21:22
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Is that the one with the Wandering Jew?
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Apr 14, 2024 21:25
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Al! posted:finding myself watching a movie from 1992, leap of faith, that stars steve martin, liam neeson, and meatloaf?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! how is it? I've never heard of it but I looked at the poster and it seems up my alley. I enjoy checking out less-known, even lesser-liked, movies. Especially those with actors you don't expect to see and also I like Debra Winger.
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Apr 14, 2024 21:28
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Is that the one with the Wandering Jew? yeah, he shows up in the first act
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Apr 14, 2024 21:29
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Fighting Elegy posted:how is it? I've never heard of it but I looked at the poster and it seems up my alley. I enjoy checking out less-known, even lesser-liked, movies. Especially those with actors you don't expect to see and also I like Debra Winger. when stuff like this was on comedy central nonstop i found it dreadfully boring, but days im finding this movie charming like i find a lot of pre-internet, pre-phone 90s comedies these days.
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Apr 14, 2024 21:30
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comedies that aren't funny but a slice of 90s life
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Apr 14, 2024 21:30
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Now that I’ve watched a few episodes I can say Fallout is aggressively mediocre. The camera work and action choreography is amateur, and the dialogue so formulaic and by the numbers I could finish most conversations before the characters could. And the 50’s pastiche isn’t even visible half the time. And worst of all the ironic use of oldies music is done lazily and unfitting, not really fitting the “beat” of what’s happening on screen. I wish it was terrible because it would be fun to hate, but instead it’s just boring. Like the communion wafer version of Fallout.
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Apr 14, 2024 21:30
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lol steve martin hustles a bunch of black teens at basketball, perfect 90s
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Apr 14, 2024 21:33
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fans overstate how developed civilisation was in New Vegas. New Vegas very specifically doesn't take place in the NCR, but in an occupied territory where civilisation is limited to House's personal fiefdom and a handful of isolated villages, and there are still ruins and monster lairs just off the beaten track the basic conceit of a typical RPG prevents it from taking place in a truly settled environment, because a functioning society doesn't actually have dungeons or random encounters, nor does it tolerate murderhobos or even nosy busybodies diplomancing their way through quests. even beloved Disco Elysium had more reasons than just narrative for taking place in a municipal no-man's-land a couple of lines about brahmin barons playing politics and fighting a war for electoral optics back home doesn't actually make New Vegas a story about post-post-apocalyptic society, and to its credit it never tried to be - the focus is on the logistics and philosophy of conquest and occupation, the process by which "there" becomes part of "here"
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Apr 14, 2024 21:39
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Fighting Elegy posted:They said they schedule the trade for every 30 years pretty clearly. Maybe you couldn't hear it because you were thinking about plot holes too hard. Every three years, and they mention there was a failed harvest and many people died of starvation so the crew is all new people they hadnt met before. Each vault holds 1000 people. That part is fine, nothing wrong there Son of Sorrow posted:After reading the threads I went in expecting a long, one-take sequence of Todd Howard taking a massive poo poo on Brian Fargo's upturned face. Watched the first two episodes of the Fallout show and it's fine? Just a regular high-budget sci-fi show?? It starts coming apart in the later episodes when they get bored of some plot threads and have trouble landing some of the big ideas. The show is at its best when its about side quests and wandering the wasteland, so in that way it does stay true to its roots. Fallout main quests have always been kinda garbage
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Apr 14, 2024 21:56
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busalover posted:Oh there's a show about Foundation? Hmm. Foundation just makes it obvious that all shows should cast Lee Pace.
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Apr 14, 2024 22:11
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