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RevolverDivider posted:Source your quotes It's an old copy pasta about FF13 being on the Xbox IIRC
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Apr 15, 2024 02:59
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Kinda hope its doing poorly so Square will stop taking exclusivity deals
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Apr 15, 2024 03:02
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Jetrauben posted:Yeah Cloud left home to go join the army at 14, and this is explicitly not unusual for a dying town like Nibelheim even if the subtext is that he was leaving because the town blamed him for Tifa getting hurt and he didn't want to be a burden on his mom. Gaia considers teens adults very, very young. So even at that time he was just trying to not be a burden. I completely missed the part where he was blamed for Tifa being hurt as a kid. Gonna be fun watching him snap in the next game.
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Apr 15, 2024 03:20
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it is insane how many fakeouts they do on Aerith's status in the ending sequence
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Apr 15, 2024 04:00
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I have a lot to sort regarding what has happened and what has meaningfully changed with Rebirth what did defeating Sephiroth in a cosmic void at the end of either game actually accomplish other than ending both games with a big JRPG finale? why do they insist on doing that
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Apr 15, 2024 04:06
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Because beating his rear end is awesome and the music is bitchin'
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Apr 15, 2024 04:13
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grieving for Gandalf posted:
pointing silently at the 'final fantasy' in the title
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Apr 15, 2024 04:20
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grieving for Gandalf posted:what did defeating Sephiroth in a cosmic void at the end of either game actually accomplish other than ending both games with a big JRPG finale? why do they insist on doing that In the first one it got rid of a bunch of ghosts. In the second one not much.
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Apr 15, 2024 04:21
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SyntheticPolygon posted:In the first one it got rid of a bunch of ghosts. there are so many more ghosts now! there's a whole new kind! it didn't do poo poo!
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Apr 15, 2024 04:22
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Jetrauben posted:Yeah Cloud left home to go join the army at 14, and this is explicitly not unusual for a dying town like Nibelheim even if the subtext is that he was leaving because the town blamed him for Tifa getting hurt and he didn't want to be a burden on his mom. Gaia considers teens adults very, very young. Yeah, when you actually crunch the numbers you quickly realize the extremely funny fact that-excepting Red, who’s weird - until Vincent and Cid join up, Yuffie is the member of the party with the most actual experience as a trained combatant, since Cloud only had like a year and a half active duty before getting pickled in a basement for 5 years.
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Apr 15, 2024 04:23
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why did they change how the temple of the ancients is the black materia and Aerith says it's fake but then it's not
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Apr 15, 2024 04:29
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grieving for Gandalf posted:there are so many more ghosts now! there's a whole new kind! it didn't do poo poo! There's a whole like 9 chapters of No Ghosts! And now they do different poo poo! Like hang out with Whales and stuff
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Apr 15, 2024 04:32
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grieving for Gandalf posted:there are so many more ghosts now! there's a whole new kind! it didn't do poo poo! those are Sephiroth ghosts, he took charge of the ghosts after we killed the old head ghosts
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Apr 15, 2024 05:54
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Replaying the ending of Remake again, I forgot that two of the Whisper visions of the future that Cloud sees are: 1) The White Materia falling down 2) Cloud laying Aerith's body down into the water Do we think this had any influence on Cloud's psychosis in Rebirth's ending? I mean obviously blocking out uncomfortable truths is Cloud's thing in general, but the complete lack of the water scene in Rebirth seems an even more specific omission now.
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Apr 15, 2024 05:56
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Raxivace posted:Replaying the ending of Remake again, I forgot that two of the Whisper visions of the future that Cloud sees are: the general consensus (that I agree with for now) seems to be that part 3 will feature cloud being forced to confront that aerith is actually for-real dead, and we'll see the water burial scene once he's realized what really happened
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Apr 15, 2024 06:21
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Arkage posted:Reading a thread about sales figures being significantly below Remake. Thread filled with people saying Square somehow screwed up badly with Remake and that's why people aren't buying Rebirth. The game itself is fine and it'll have very very long legs. It's just that two things naturally & organically hobble sales: it's a direct sequel so you need to own or play the previous game to completion, and it's only on 1 platform, which has a much less installed base than Remake did with PS4 at the time of its release. It's not a surprise at all that it's below Remake. Once it releases on PC it'll get a huge boost once more, plus the inevitable PS6 version and of course the pack-in version with part 3 or the trilogy as a whole.
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Apr 15, 2024 07:37
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How much of the low sales can really be chalked up to PS5 exclusivity? Spiderman 2 was also a PS5 exclusive sequel to a PS4 game, but outpaced the original’s sales anyway. FF16 is a PS5 exclusive as well, but still sold a lot more than these estimates by a huge margin. I’m hoping they’re very wrong because the game deserves a lot better.
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Apr 15, 2024 09:05
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They have made two outstanding games and as long as the last one is the same calibre I'm not fussed over sales chat
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Apr 15, 2024 09:16
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You would be able to draw in a large audience on the large PS4 install base with the first game with some urgency. Now you're filtering for PS5 owners, but you're also filtering for "This is the second installment in a trilogy that won't complete for another 4 years, so you might not be inclined to play this right now." The series could end up selling less in total that the original FF7 which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't spend 12 years working on it.
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Apr 15, 2024 09:20
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grieving for Gandalf posted:why did they change how the temple of the ancients is the black materia and Aerith says it's fake but then it's not That Aerith quote has actually been staying with me as well since then. I'm currently doing Chadley's challenges so I haven't reached the end again but I don't understand what was actually intended with that line.
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Apr 15, 2024 09:39
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It's pretty confusing but I think it's functionally the same thing as "the Temple itself is the materia" in the original. We see Sephiroth pull the real Black Materia into this world almost immediately after he gets the "fake" one so it doesn't really seem to amount to much except maybe to set up the idea of grabbing materia from other worlds?
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Apr 15, 2024 09:55
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It's worth remembering that FFVII Remake released in April 2020 when COVID lockdowns were hitting hard - there was a huge videogame sales spike as so many people were sat around at home with nothing to do and a meaty nostalgic RPG was always going to be a sales smash. That, combined with the smaller PS5 install base and being the middle installment of a trilogy, means Rebirth was always going to sell less than Remake. I doubt Square is that concerned - this is a project they can reissue and remaster for maybe two decades at least.
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Apr 15, 2024 10:03
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A lot of people did not even understand what this game was, based on all the comments in review threads asking what this game even is ("The FF7 Remake already came out, right? Is this an ultimate edition or something?") I don't know if different naming or marketing could have helped. At the end of the day, nothing can change that this is a 100 hour sequel to a 40 hour remake of a 30 year old video game targeted at people in their 30s and 40s who likely don't have time to play video games at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it, but at some point you have to acknowledge the absurdity of spending 13 years remaking a game that took a few years to make in the 90s
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Apr 15, 2024 10:14
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The huge development costs and time spent on it is also why I'm finding the platform exclusivity baffling. Sony must have paid Square a huge amount for them to consider it viable. edit: and it's funny because they probably didn't even need to. Almost literally nobody is buying xboxes anywhere. The only other viable platform is PC and that's not exactly something Sony is competing with Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 10:17
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Bugblatter posted:How much of the low sales can really be chalked up to PS5 exclusivity? Spiderman 2 was also a PS5 exclusive sequel to a PS4 game, but outpaced the original’s sales anyway. FF16 is a PS5 exclusive as well, but still sold a lot more than these estimates by a huge margin. It's just cope I'm afraid.
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Apr 15, 2024 11:31
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Putting aside all the pseudo sequel Rebuild compilation slop that caught people off guard, I have to imagine calling the first of 3 parts "Remake" didn't do any favours to the more casual audience that doesn't pay attention to trailers or the back of game boxes and perhaps assumed the game titled "Remake" was in fact a full remake of the original Also don't end up like this 
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Apr 15, 2024 12:48
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It's important to keep scale in mind here, too. VII Rebirth likely isn't meeting expectations sales-wise, but it's also handily outselling every other JRPG released around the same time, like Persona 3 Reload and Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth. These are all excellent games, of course, but it's worth noting that "poor sales" for a major Final Fantasy game is still a pretty high number by JRPG standards. We're not talking about a flop. The other thing is that Final Fantasy probably isn't the juggernaut it once was. It's been a really long time since the franchise has seen consistently good games released within a reasonable time frame. For almost two decades, Final Fantasy has seen longer and longer development times for less and less beloved games, with the mainline series finally breaking out of that with FFXVI (which, for as much as I criticize it, is a good, well-made, complete game). A lot of older fans have drifted away--there's a very common sentiment that Final Fantasy "isn't what it used to be" among people who don't play them anymore--and the series hasn't really given new fans much to grab onto outside of FFXIV. Combine that with the lower number of PS5s compared to PS4s, the nature of Rebirth as a direct sequel where you really need to play Remake first, the confusing nature of the Remake trilogy to people not paying close attention (along with the insistence from a vocal group of the fanbase that you "must" play the original first), and the controversial nature of it to people who are, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised it's struggling sales-wise.
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Apr 15, 2024 14:05
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Yeah I'm not sure if anyone under 20 cares about Final Fantasy. at least none of the teens I'm related to talk about it. seems like the series might have an aging audience problem
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Apr 15, 2024 14:08
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I pity the younger generation that apparently doesn't know how sick jrpgs are
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Apr 15, 2024 14:29
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It's a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually think FFVII Remake is a pretty good jumping-on point for the series as a whole. People insist that you have to play the original to understand it, but I disagree--in fact, I suspect anything that would be confusing if you hadn't played the original is confusing on purpose. (Obviously there are references you won't get if you haven't played the original, but those are fun references, not critical story elements.) I know multiple people who've played Remake without playing the original and loved it, one of whom was sold on the JRPG genre as a whole by it (our good buddy VideoGames). But it seems like the fanbase as a whole is committed to scaring new people away from the Remake trilogy, which is unfortunate because these games (especially Rebirth) are absolutely peak Final Fantasy.
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Apr 15, 2024 14:40
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Harrow posted:It's a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually think FFVII Remake is a pretty good jumping-on point for the series as a whole. People insist that you have to play the original to understand it, but I disagree--in fact, I suspect anything that would be confusing if you hadn't played the original is confusing on purpose. (Obviously there are references you won't get if you haven't played the original, but those are fun references, not critical story elements.) I know multiple people who've played Remake without playing the original and loved it, one of whom was sold on the JRPG genre as a whole by it (our good buddy VideoGames). Same. I know people who are either too young to have bothered with 7 or just didn't play it and there is absolutely nothing stopping them enjoying remake. In fact it makes for some really fun conversations about stuff like the dementors. The way rebirth handled a few of the big scenes was frankly poo poo (I still loved the game don't get me wrong), so I feel like the original made those bits worse because they were done ham handedly for reasons I don't understand.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:04
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I'm listening to the OST right now and "Prison Break" (plays during the shooting segment with Barret in the buggy) is low-key one of the best tracks in the game
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Apr 15, 2024 15:04
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not that it's anywhere near as important, but they could also not have done less with the design of the remake+rebirth bundle  at least the price was solid
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Apr 15, 2024 15:25
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JBP posted:The way rebirth handled a few of the big scenes was frankly poo poo (I still loved the game don't get me wrong), so I feel like the original made those bits worse because they were done ham handedly for reasons I don't understand. One of the sound bites I keep coming back to is to say this game has a very poor grasp of pacing, and this is also true of the Big Cutscenes. They, like the setpiece dungeons, are a victim of the game's need to be Long. A good early example is the lead-in to Sephiroth walking through the flames, you know, the loving money shot, the most iconic CGI ever to come out of that company. It's a short scene in the original but in Rebirth it's dragged out into this whole Thing where you wander around town at 0.2x speed while nothing really happens and there's this whole dance where you have to go the short way and then get blocked and have to go around the long way and then have to mash buttons to slowly crawl toward Sephiroth while he stands there contemplating some other guys who are standing there contemplating him and it's all so... so... obviously contrived, so transparently there to pad out runtime and the best they could do to fill that time was this. As it happens I think the game broadly improves its handling of this kind of thing over the course of its runtime, and even kinda sorta almost manages to eventually make the slow L2/R2 struggle pay off a little when you're doing it for Aerith at the end, it's just. What I keep coming back to though was that the Fire Scene was what they put in the demo. This was the public showing, the best foot forward. I don't think it's possible to play through this scene for the first time (whether as an OG veteran or new) and not be taken aback at how bad it feels. Of course, this is balanced against how so many of Rebirth's best scenes are the ones that not only are mostly original but during which technically nothing really happens, where everyone just hangs, and the vibe just hangs, and you feel it. There, the languid pacing really works. I guess I think that maybe they just don't know how to do paces that aren't languid.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:27
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Yeah I was actually pissed off at how bad the Nibelheim intro is. Not in a "they ruined it!" way. I just can't understand why they made that many weak choices in row for what is absolutely the big nostalgia money shot and probs the most defining image from FF7. Yeah I guess to make the game longer, but ffs that's what the millions of minigames are for.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:31
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It is okay for a game to be slower and meandering if that is the intention of the game. There are plenty of games that thrive on that. FF7Reb has some missteps with it but they are relatively few and far between. (The lingering crawl being a big one.) Discussing FF7 vs the original also runs into the fact that no matter what the cutscenes are going to be longer. Even if they were 1-for-1 they are now going to have actual cinematography, body language and voice acting. You can change nothing else about the game and that will significantly change the pacing of scenes.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:54
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I honestly liked the pacing, for the most part. The only time I really felt like the L2/R2 thing was really bad was in the Nibelheim flashback. Every other time I thought it worked just fine. I think a big part of it though is that I sorta knew what I was getting into with Rebirth and that this wouldn't be a very "plot-heavy" story. It's a character-focused story, primarily trying to show who these characters are and make you invested in their arcs and their relationships with one another. On that level I think it's mostly very successful. The one thing I'd change on that front if I could would be replacing some of Chadley's open world dialogue with comments from your party members instead, to keep up the group banter vibe. It's a top-tier "hang out with your buds" game, like many of the best Final Fantasies.
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Apr 15, 2024 16:01
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My biggest issue with Nibleheim is they put a water pipe and a big red valve next that first fire that blocks you from getting to the center of town and that poo poo activates my gamer neurons something fierce so I spent a solid minute trying to figure out how to access the crank turning thing they just had you at the end of the reactor. Sorta killed the mood.
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Apr 15, 2024 16:46
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Agreed that Nibelheim flashback had some of the worst parts of the game ironically. Also if I recall, they didn’t do the big music queue with Seph saying he’s going to go see mother in the basement. Fail. For every 5 times the game hits big there seems to be a glaring miss. Off the top of my head, some other ones are purple goop instead of blood for the Shinra President, the terrible wall Market music (I will die on this hill), the overlong Temple of Ancients that had none of the interesting weirdness from the OG, Dyne not really going full-psycho like in OG, Cid immediately being a buddy pal that doesn’t smoke, Forgotten Capital being a single tiny walkway (this better get revisited in the 3rd game). But I could list a lot more stuff I think was great or significant improvements.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:58
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ImpAtom posted:It is okay for a game to be slower and meandering if that is the intention of the game. There are plenty of games that thrive on that. FF7Reb has some missteps with it but they are relatively few and far between. (The lingering crawl being a big one.) All that detail and stuff is fantastic. The Cutscene could be longer and that's ok too. The issue with the Sephiroth scene is that it plods. It's not slower, it's painful. The violence is bafflingly stupid. It goes so far out of its way to present that reveal in the worst way possible it's hard to understand if there was any artistic intent at all. It seems like ten people sat around going "oh put this in haha" then did what they said without review.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:09
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