|
the upcoming presidential election is, one way or another, between two people who will be terrible to Palestinians, one of which will deport many members of my family to an impoverished violent wasteland and the other who will not (and largely made it possible for them to escape here). so i don't even really get to participate in these slapfights. i am not privileged enough to be in the playpen, because i cant emotionally distance myself enough from the absolute dipshittery of people arguing that the only moral choice is to abdicate your voting influence in a way which only benefits the people who are on the far end of any of our political positions and who want to appoint white supremacists to govern our borders and immigration policy. congratulations to those who get to have that kind of emotional distance though. must be fun, considering how frequently they make the effort to impress it into any conversation
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 19:10 |
|
|
Actually, I think you'll find that everyone who disagrees with me is as callous as they are privileged.Riptor posted:Did you have a bridge game or something on Jan 6, 2021? Donald Trump on January 6th, 2021 posted:I know your pain. I know you're hurt. I know you're hurt, I know your pain. I know you're hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don't want anybody hurt. It's a very tough period of time. There's never been a time like this where such a thing happened where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election. But we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home, we love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel, but go home and go home at peace. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:21
|
|
|
The dangerous part is very much that there’s so many people who allow themselves to be distracted by Trump’s antics and performances to believe he’s some sort of agent of chaos or true populist or something. Instead of the guy who has done what the Heritage Foundation wanted 99% of the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:21
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:He still signed the bill instead of vetoing it. The material conditions of many people were improved by the free money. You're mad because trump did something good for people and you think the reasons matter. The people who got free money when they needed it most didn't care that he signed the bill out of narcissism. Those same people are also mad at Biden for not following up on the extra money he promised them during his campaign Once again, the CARES Act passed the US Senate 96-0. I'm not even going to get into his personal reasons for signing it, but when it comes to the CARES Act, Trump did not "do it", it didn't in any sense buck the GOP, and it was absolutely in no way unpredictable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:22
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:He still signed the bill instead of vetoing it. The material conditions of many people were improved by the free money. You're mad because trump did something good for people and you think the reasons matter. The bill passed 96-0. The only 4 people who didn't vote were either out sick with COVID (i.e. the entire reason for the CARES Act in the first place, also something Trump bears a lot of responsibility for) or isolating. Even if he vetoed it it would've immediately landed back on his desk and he'd have to sign it anyway (assuming of course the Republicans didn't suddenly remember that they don't actually like helping people who aren't rich, white and straight). And even then he still got it delayed by a few days by throwing a fit about wanting his name on the checks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:22
|
|
|
Xombie posted:All direct payments so far have been under the last two GOP presidents. The CARES Act is one of the largest handouts to private business in a century. Trump personally grifted from it. Also the CARES Act happened in part because Trump appointed random rich guy Mnuchin as treasury secretary and he convinced Republican senators they needed to pass covid relief while Trump did nothing. He isn't going to appoint random rich guys to cabinet offices if he's reelected, it's all going to be vetted. I don't think there will be an equivalent to Milley having an "are we the baddies" moment at the Lafayette Square photo op, telling everyone in his office to read pop history books about Germans resisting Hitler, and doing a coup against Trump on January 7th either.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:25
|
|
|
Neat Bee posted:The argument has been made that Trump voters are directly responsible for the things he does, something I agree with; you are responsible for the actions of the people you put in power. If that is true, why doesn't the same extend to Biden voters, especially if they are doubling down this November? And? Your point it? Biden will do whatever it takes to "protect" his vision of Israel. He's made that abundantly clear, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Over the next few weeks, next few months most likely Rafah will be attacked. Thousands more Palestinians will die. And there isn't a single thing anybody in this thread can do about it. There isn't a single protest, or statement of intent, or whatever anybody can accomplish. As you've said, Biden has shown his colors. And then we'll hit election season. Trump has made his position clear both historically and recently. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem and has openly compared Palestinians to animals. He's openly talked about how he's shocked they are taking so long putting them down. He's not going to demand a ceasefire, or stop weapon sales to Israel. One of his huge platform pushes is making America money, which weapon sales are all about. He's no wildcard. Biden meanwhile is still beholden at least in some way to the Democratic party. He's not willing to fold on the issue of Israel, but he's going to do the bare minimum and push for some amount of rebuilding of Gaza post this conflict. He'll pay at least lip service and provide some amount of assistance to what's left. There are already talks and action involved in a Marshall Plan of sorts between the US, EU, and various Arab states to provide millions for the rebuilding of Gaza. There is a level of confidence that Biden will move forward with this if he's reelected, which should help the remaining Palestinians at least materially. Do you genuinely think Trump will stay committed to a plan to pump millions of dollars into Palestine? Do you really think Kushner, who is openly musing about how nice it'd be to grab a bunch of prime real estate in Gaza once this is all over should be back in a government position? Is that really the wildcard you are envisioning? Like even if your only care is Israel/Palestine, Biden is still the better of the two options. He's still the ideal for this conflict. You can hate him all you want and hold your nose as much as you'd like, but he's going to have the best result for Palestinians as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:26
|
|
|
Anybody claiming Trump would be better on this is dumb as poo poo. Don't loving talk yourself into voting for republicans. It's also really hosed how fast people will crack out "you don't actually care about Israel vaporizing hospitals, you just want to hurt Blue Team!" or "yeah the wolf is chewing up children and spitting out their bones, but they're foreign children, while tromph will hurt Americans, yknow, real people". Ideally, we'd be bombing Israel like we did Serbia.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:28
|
|
|
H.R. Hufflepuff posted:"First they came for the Gazans, and I voted for that poo poo because the other guy was on record promising to come for the Gazans harder and also for me personally." Trump is a notorious liar so I don't know why you would take him seriously on this when you should not take him seriously on anything else. Regardless, the argument is not "We should let Trump win", it is "We should be forcibly dismantling any system where the best possible outcome is genocide." Lesser evil voting brought us to the point where the lesser evil is a genocidaire and I don't see how lesser evil voting one more time will bring different results. The best possible spin on that argument is that you are willing to pay for your own safety with the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents, possibly hundreds of thousands by this November.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:29
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Do I think Trump will be better? Probably not. What do you think Trump will do for Israel that Biden isn't already doing? If it's vocal support, Biden's already doing that. Will he send more weapons? Deploy American troops? Setting aside that Trump does care about his approval rating beyond the diehard base, how much does the magachudbase really want to send troops to Gaza, or incur visible economic impacts for Israel's sake? So you don't think Trump will be any better on Palestine (and for the record: I think Joe Biden is loving dogshit on Palestine!), which means that it's bad that people point out that Joe Biden is better on a number of significant, relevant things (like trans rights) because ....???
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:35
|
|
|
Neat Bee posted:Trump is a notorious liar so I don't know why you would take him seriously on this when you should not take him seriously on anything else. Regardless, the argument is not "We should let Trump win", it is "We should be forcibly dismantling any system where the best possible outcome is genocide." Lesser evil voting brought us to the point where the lesser evil is a genocidaire and I don't see how lesser evil voting one more time will bring different results. Then what's the plan? What is the outline that will get us to this glorious genocide-free outcome? (by the way, when I said "genocide-free", do you mean the genocide stops or it keeps going, we're just not supplying it?) Rappaport posted:Please, mods, anyone, this is the perfect thread title for this weekend's slap fight, let's do it Make it happen, cap'n. volts5000 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:37
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:(Trump word salad) What uh.... what point are you making here
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:38
|
|
|
volts5000 posted:What is the outline that will get us to this glorious genocide-free outcome? Please, mods, anyone, this is the perfect thread title for this weekend's slap fight, let's do it
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:41
|
|
|
Riptor posted:What uh.... what point are you making here The Mattybee posted:So you don't think Trump will be any better on Palestine (and for the record: I think Joe Biden is loving dogshit on Palestine!), which means that it's bad that people point out that Joe Biden is better on a number of significant, relevant things (like trans rights) because ....???
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:42
|
|
|
Riptor posted:What uh.... what point are you making here After everyone had already stormed the capital (you know, on the day that he held the rally specifically to direct them to march on the capital), after being cajoled all day long he finally put out a statement on Twitter to tell everyone to go home after it was clear it failed. This proves he didn't want to throw the results out, somehow
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:43
|
|
|
If people want to make a "Trump isn't as bad over israel" argument, the strong version of that argument is not that he would deliberately be any better than Biden, but that he's so grossly incompetent and irresponsible that he might *accidentally* be better, such as by pissing everyone off so much that Congress becomes incapable of passing Israel funding. Even this argument fails though for at least two reasons; the first being that he might also accidentally figure out a way to be even worse, such as by dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza; Biden at least sets a floor. More importantly, trump is managing to make the Republican house incompetent to take any action at all just by existing, without holding office at all; he doesn't need to be president for that, he's doing it right now anyway. Byzantine posted:Anybody claiming Trump would be better on this is dumb as poo poo. Don't loving talk yourself into voting for republicans. Also this Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:46
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:What point were you making in the first place when you referenced January 6, 2021? To be clear, I've never played bridge. That Trump was complicit in knowingly and maliciously undermining the democratic process and that the notion that he might do so again and/or repeatedly to keep him and his cronies in power is not "fanfiction", to use your term, but a very real concern that should not be ignored or minimized Again, what point were you making by quoting the gibberish that spilled out of his gob once he knew his putsch had failed?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:48
|
|
|
We weren’t talking about Trump “undermining the democratic process” nor overturning the election results. If you want me to answer a straightforward question, then by all means, ask one instead of dicking around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:54
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:We weren’t talking about Trump “undermining the democratic process” nor overturning the election results. If you want me to answer a straightforward question, then by all means, ask one instead of dicking around. You invoked the term "Emperor Fuhrer", and mocked the notion that he might declare himself such. You are aware of how Hitler came to, and then consolidated power, yes? You're the one dicking around, and you still haven't explained what point you were trying to make by quoting Trump on Jan 6th. Without any additional explanation, the obvious conclusion to come to is that you're simply someone who takes Trump at his word, which.... yikes Riptor fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 20:59
|
|
|
Also what the gently caress is with the scare quotes
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:01
|
|
|
Riptor posted:Also what the gently caress is with the scare quotes
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:02
|
|
|
Here’s an angle I’m interested in feedback on: Assume Trump wins. Does anyone in this thread believe that the Dem congressional positions on Gaza won’t change at all despite there now being a genocide being overseen by Trump? I am pretty cynical, and I think you would see some differences in how the electeds talk, and maybe even act, if it’s a Republican overseeing weapons shipments to an ongoing genocide. Do people believe that the Democrats wouldn’t change their rhetoric at all, and that the politics are essentially frozen and impervious to the calculations on optics that would change if Trump was now owning this debacle?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:03
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:We weren’t talking about Trump “undermining the democratic process” nor overturning the election results. If you want me to answer a straightforward question, then by all means, ask one instead of dicking around. Jesus Christ. You're the one who brought up the Emperor Fuher strawman and the 2021 reference was a clear and easily understood response to that specific comment. Stop trying to bait people into these dumb flame wars
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:04
|
|
|
selec posted:Here’s an angle I’m interested in feedback on: Yet another instance of where "We had four years of Trump" is the answer the question. No, the Democrats didn't change their party line on anything at all just because Trump supported it. In fact, there were multiple instances of Schumer and Pelosi being keen to try to manipulate Trump into softening to the Democrats' proposals by stroking his ego. It never worked, but it's what they did. "We hate this now even though we supported it, because gently caress you" has been the GOP strategy against Obama and now Biden, but the Dems did not do that. They already have a party line about Israel, they aren't going to change it to make Trump look bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:12
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:It's bad to tell people that they have an ethical responsibility to vote for a genocidaire. I'm not opposed to discussing the difference between any two candidates' policies on any given issue. So you're open to discussing the policy differences, but you don't want anyone to "threaten" you with Trump by doing things like "bringing up things he's already done": Halloween Jack posted:I'd just prefer people not use the threat of Trump to shame/threaten people to try to get them to vote for Biden. It's obscene. ...and you believe that we can't possibly know what influence he would have on policy, despite four years of him being in office: Halloween Jack posted:What's the connection between voting for Biden and thwarting anti-trans legislation? Anti-trans legislation is generally unpopular and a big electoral loser for Republicans. Most of these bills are at the state level, though there was a big surge at the federal level last year. How many more will be introduced under Trump than Biden? How many will pass? What positive effect will Trump's election have on passing these bills? We don't know. Even though you've already acknowledged that Donald Trump is at best going to be just as lovely about Palestine, which is the thing you're mad at Joe Biden for (correctly!) I don't understand what your end goal is. "Genocide bad"? Yes! It is! We agree! "It sucks that the two real options for President are both awful about Palestine"? Yes! It does! We agree! But if literally none of the other issues matter to you, then what's the point of discussing them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:15
|
|
|
On the subject of Israel/Palestine specifically, Trump has been the most pro-Israel president in American history by a wide margin, and he promises to be even worse in term 2. Sure, Trump himself has largely avoided any clear policy statements on the subject since Oct 7. But Kushner, who is Trump's main advisor on Israel/Palestine matters and was left almost completely in charge of writing the Trump administration's I/P agenda, has publicly suggested that Israel should "move the people out [of Gaza]" and send them to Egypt, and then develop the real estate there, as he believes that "Gaza’s waterfront property could be very valuable". When the astonished interviewer asked for clarification, Kushner went on to say that a Palestinian state would be a "super bad idea" that would be "rewarding an act of terror", and that "If you think about even the construct, Gaza was not really a historical precedent" (which appears to be a significantly mangled version of old Israeli racist arguments denying the existence of the Palestinian people). I'm not even loving kidding, this is stuff Kushner actually said. That's all direct quotes! If Trump gets back in office, the guy who wants to deport everyone in Gaza and build waterfront resorts there is almost certainly going to be in charge of US policy toward Israel and Palestine again. It's safe to say that stopping genocide won't be on his list of top priorities.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:16
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:I remember arguing in 2004 that if we settle for lovely Democratic candidates, we would eventually be having precisely the argument that we're having now. Do you not know anything about the conservative plan to reshape the executive branch? Trump will fire tens of thousands of federal workers and replace them with as many loyalists as he can. He will weaponize the FDA. The people that he places in charge will withdraw approval of abortion, birth control and HRT medications. Access to medical equipment to perform surgical abortions will also be restricted. This will cover all 50 states. Every department will scrap every last LGBTQ+ protection that they can get their hands on. Trump does not need legislation to do any of this. As a trans person do you seriously not know about all of this poo poo? Have you not heard a thing about Project 2025? It's not "fanfiction", it's a 920-page document written by over a hundred conservative organizations like the Heritage Foundation. If Trump wins, all of this poo poo will happen and we will not be coming back from it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:17
|
|
|
selec posted:Here’s an angle I’m interested in feedback on: Given the congressional Dem's response to trump moving the embassy was to acknowledge that Jerusalem is the capital and to either applaud it (Schumer) or just say that the timing looks bad (Pelosi), there's not a ton of historical evidence for it. https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-statement-on-trump-administration-declaration-on-jerusalem https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-statement-on-moving-the-american-embassy-in-israel-to-jerusalem
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:21
|
|
|
Following the Senate today - dismissing both articles of impeachment against Mayorkas - was not only fun, but provided some wonderful new examples of GOP dipshittery. My favorite has to be:quote:The Senate also voted against another motion to adjourn until November 6. GOP Sen. Roger Marshall argued it would have allowed the American people can have a vote on this issue. But McConnell's burble from this morning was also great: quote:As befits such a solemn and rare responsibility as convening a court of impeachment, I intend to give these charges my full and undivided attention. (from the CNN ongoing updates)
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
Ultimately this election is gonna be about seeing which group has more electoral weight: people disgusted at Joe's complicity with what's going down in Gaza, or suburban normies (many of whom would've easily voted R just a mere decade ago) who are being scared off into the Dem's arms due to conservative culture war bullshit
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:27
|
|
|
Xombie posted:Yet another instance of where "We had four years of Trump" is the answer the question. No, the Democrats didn't change their party line on anything at all just because Trump supported it. In fact, there were multiple instances of Schumer and Pelosi being keen to try to manipulate Trump into softening to the Democrats' proposals by stroking his ego. It never worked, but it's what they did. This makes me even less likely to vote downticket if this is the conclusion I come to as well. It’s kinda funny to read all these conversations and realize we’re no different than the British arguing about starving Bengal, or the Boer concentration camps. We’re sitting in the middle of the world-spanning empire wringing our hands over whether or not we should vote for one monster over the other. Ultimately though we don’t really look back on those debates and ask what the British stakes were internally, at least not until you drill down and make that the main focus of your study. I can’t wrap my head around understanding history, seeing your own place in it clearly, and then throwing the lever to keep supporting the monstrous world-spanning empire. But I suppose most folks don’t think about it at all. Which makes them great voters, at least in the sense that they don’t have to consider what’s being done in their names. Does anybody look back on the Victorian genocides and say “well they had tough decisions to make domestically” as some kind of explainer? Is that something we can look forward to, or will we be the generation of Germans with grandkids who come home one day and scream at us? Ask us exactly what we thought we were doing? I feel like being able to just say “naw, I couldn’t take part in any of that” will be an acceptable answer regardless of the state of the country at some point. It has to be—what’s the point of liberal education if the sympathies we develop stop at our borders? Did we learn anything if that’s how our brains work? I don’t understand the point of learning all this history about the world if you then immediately pivot back to acting in a way that we know, can basically guaranteed will be excoriated by future generations, universally, as colonial will exercised on behalf of a world spanning empire. I just can’t recall any similar kind of genocidal effort that isn’t universally reviled. If we aren’t trying to create a better future now, when do we start? After this genocide? After the next? Or are we just victims of history too, top to bottom? I can’t reconcile what I know about the world with making political choices to support things that we have seen historical examples of over and over again, and every time we call them the worst thing we as a species can do to each other. What do we learn from those examples if not to lend our names and support to them? Every nation that did this, they had perfectly good excuses and internal arguments that laid the stakes of the moral obscenity they were supporting against the internal well-being of the citizens. I don’t see how we’re any different, and that we’re having this argument means we are not any different. We’re here arguing over who the Good Germans are, and we know from history who they were, and were not, very clearly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
So an update on the JLOTS vessels: The General Frank S. Besson and the James Loux are alongside in Souda Bay in Crete.  The Lopez is still underway in the Med:  The Roy P. BENAVIDEZ looks to have departed Souda Bay and to be testing engines.  Lummus is still back at Blount island in JAX. Bet the Lummus isn’t going.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
Riptor posted:You invoked the term "Emperor Fuhrer", and mocked the notion that he might declare himself such. You are aware of how Hitler came to, and then consolidated power, yes?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:31
|
|
|
Staluigi posted:the upcoming presidential election is, one way or another, between two people who will be terrible to Palestinians, one of which will deport many members of my family to an impoverished violent wasteland and the other who will not (and largely made it possible for them to escape here). so i don't even really get to participate in these slapfights. i am not privileged enough to be in the playpen, because i cant emotionally distance myself enough from the absolute dipshittery of people arguing that the only moral choice is to abdicate your voting influence in a way which only benefits the people who are on the far end of any of our political positions and who want to appoint white supremacists to govern our borders and immigration policy. My cousin, a father of a young child and been working her for 15 years got deported under Biden. It's been awful for immigrants the last 4 years.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:32
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:I remember arguing in 2004 that if we settle for lovely Democratic candidates, we would eventually be having precisely the argument that we're having now. Trump, and the right wing christian nationalists that he's aligned with have be extremely clear on what their plans are. It is not "fanfiction" that he wants to set himself up as an autocratic dictator, he and his closest supporters have already said it, on video, multiple times. They have a WRITTEN PLAN about how they will do this. The man tried to get the US military to shoot unarmed minority protestors. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary Like holy poo poo, how willfully ignorant of the fact that HE WANTS TO SHOOT AMERICAN CITIZENS IN THE STREETS does one have to be? The fascist forces behind him have learned from there mistakes and will not make them the second time around!
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Why did you bring up January 6, 2021 in the first place? I'm aware of how Hitler came to power. If you're trying to make a straight-across comparison between Trump and Hitler, you should probably not reference a situation in which Trump did not act like Hitler, and told his angry supporters to give up and go home. Oh you're just loving brick-stupid. Apologies, didn't realize. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:So an update on the JLOTS vessels: I appreciate your work and knowledge injecting actual content and news into this undeserving cesspit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:35
|
|
|
Kagrenak posted:Given the congressional Dem's response to trump moving the embassy was to acknowledge that Jerusalem is the capital and to either applaud it (Schumer) or just say that the timing looks bad (Pelosi), there's not a ton of historical evidence for it. That's not surprising, given that Trump moved the embassy in compliance with a law that Congress had passed overwhelmingly. The Jerusalem Embassy Act passed the Senate something like 93-5... ...in 1995. There was an emergency clause in it allowing the president to delay implementing the law for six months if it was believed to threaten national security. And three presidents in a row invoked that delay clause every six months, for more than twenty years, in spite of multiple bipartisan Congressional resolutions calling for the president to stop delaying and move the embassy already (however, a GOP attempt in 2011 to remove the waiver clause and force the move failed to pass). Up until the presidency of Donald Trump, who had promised to move the embassy, and with the encouragement of a 90-0 bill reaffirming Congress's support for doing so, he fulfilled that campaign promise in 2017. The conclusion to draw here isn't "Democrats are just as bad". It's "an overwhelming majority of America has spent generations being overwhelmingly in favor of unconditionally supporting Israel, even when it's openly massacring civilians, to the point that pro-Israel sentiments have been almost completely ubiquitous among politicians". Even if public opinion is changing, that amount of established political consensus doesn't just turn on a dime. It takes time to push US politics into a complete 180 on a subject. selec posted:I can’t wrap my head around understanding history, seeing your own place in it clearly, and then throwing the lever to keep supporting the monstrous world-spanning empire. But I suppose most folks don’t think about it at all. Which makes them great voters, at least in the sense that they don’t have to consider what’s being done in their names. Refusing to vote doesn't hurt or weaken the monstrous world-spanning empire one bit. But this just sounds like an electoralism argument.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:38
|
|
|
selec posted:This makes me even less likely to vote downticket if this is the conclusion I come to as well. The question no one who is saying things like this will never answer is: so what are you going to actually do about any of this then? I've been on the phone calling my congressional delegation and out there showing up where they are to make them understand that their constituencies are upset about this. It's had a marginal effect but some effects at least. What's the actual, concrete, alternative? You're still complicit if you just throw your hands up. Main Paineframe posted:That's not surprising, given that Trump moved the embassy in compliance with a law that Congress had passed overwhelmingly. The Jerusalem Embassy Act passed the Senate something like 93-5... Thanks for the extra context.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 19:10 |
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:Trump... told his angry supporters to give up and go home.  he planned it, provoked it, and watched it unfold, but didn't say poo poo until it was clear his coup failed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2024 21:41
|
|
