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mawarannahr posted:I don't understand, where is the JavaScript being injected? It is using the same API that Awful.app uses (which could, at that time, exfiltrate your passwords, in exactly the same manner --- which raises the question "why didn't congress act on Awful.app??") Because they don't care about the Awful App. If the Awful App had access to the passwords of 170 million American devices and the Chinese government could access that data secretly without anyone ever knowing, then they would probably care.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:04
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you see any downside to banning media/social media that you may dislike? Do you consider the Fairness Doctrine to be censorship?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just for context, the American algorithm was moved to be co-managed with an American company (Oracle) and is already a distinct product from the global version. So, these instances of the algorithm being manipulated post-2021 are not necessarily the result of China directly. Either that or Oracle isn't paying close enough attention/the divergence wasn't really impactful in a practical sense. I have no clue what the actual impact of that change was, but some of the instances the report cites were from before 2021, so they may not be relevant to the app as it exists right now. Addition to my previous reply. Here is one article about how the siloing to Oracle is full of holes: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo
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Apr 24, 2024 18:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The head of the iOS privacy project said that it was possible to access passwords because the javascript that TikTok injected functioned like a keylogger. It looks like this is about a different exploit than the one in your article. Tiktok is injecting that into web views hosted by the tiktok app, which is bad but not the same as installing spyware on your phone. It has no access to your password manager or activity in other apps including the default system browser
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Apr 24, 2024 18:07
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As far as the TikTok divest/ban impacting election turnout, the bill setting it after the election doesn't really help either way. TikTok has been pushing a massive amount of "US Congress wants to ban TikTok" ads and sponsored videos ever since the previous version of this bill a bit back. They're not afraid to push this very, very heavily to their userbase.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The propaganda angle has always been an aspect, but that angle started really getting pushed harder after October 7th and when TikTok set up a system to have all of its users automatically call the offices of members of congress and tell them to oppose a ban. When thousands of 12-year olds started calling and saying they had no idea what was happening, but that TikTok was their life that really backfired and made a lot of members see it as a mobilization and propaganda problem. To what extent were the legislators' distress at the idea of constituent outreach influenced by pressure brought to them by pro-Israeli political groups as well as those 12 year olds? Legislators also felt that constituent outreach by those older than 12 was also a bridge too far when it came to calls about our government's unconditional support of genocide given the stories that came out about frustrated citizens trying to catch the ear of their elected employees.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:07
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you see any downside to banning media/social media that you may dislike? The answer is clear; ban all social media. No favorites!
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Apr 24, 2024 18:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Because they don't care about the Awful App. If the Awful App had access to the passwords of 170 million American devices and the Chinese government could access that data secretly without anyone ever knowing, then they would probably care. I was trying to be a little funny which perhaps detracted from the main point that it is a completely ordinary functionality that was and is used by so many apps that it doesn't make sense to single TikTok out as for sure 100% nefariously using this an exploit to hoover up your passwords. FWIW it doesn't request this permission anymore (although Awful.app does 🤔)
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Apr 24, 2024 18:12
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Nonsense posted:Genuinely hope they don’t sell to Elon or some newspaper magnate. Elon's already talking about resurrecting Vine (since Twitter bought it then shuttered it), in addition to pivoting Twitter to video. Also, given the Tesla earnings report Tuesday, I doubt he has the money to do so.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:12
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Willa Rogers posted:To what extent were the legislators' distress at the idea of constituent outreach influenced by pressure brought to them by pro-Israeli political groups as well as those 12 year olds? That had been happening for a while. It seems like those calls pushed a lot of people who were on the fence. We can't read minds, so maybe some of them secretly wanted to come out for the TikTok ban for years, but had to wait until TiKTok automatically forwarded thousands of 12-year olds who didn't know what was going on to their office to finally give them cover to come out. That was the stated thing that shocked some members of congress who said they hadn't really bought arguments about TikTok as a mobilizing/propaganda problem before. They could be lying, though.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:14
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you see any downside to banning media/social media that you may dislike? To be clear, I want all social media banned, besides our happy forums here. I'm not a fan.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:15
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frankly, we all hosed up around when we realized animal skins could keep us warm and fire cooked meat. ill support anyone who bans all these unnatural technologies
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Apr 24, 2024 18:17
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Young Freud posted:Elon's already talking about resurrecting Vine Elon doing something good?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:18
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Push El Burrito posted:Elon doing something good? Not until he brings back Flooz.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:19
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DynamicSloth posted:The Democrats who decided to support the bill this year, obviously, why do you think they came around? Which Democrats? You are making the claim that the dems support this because they want to silence news out of Gaza you need to support that claim. There had already been a bi-partisans supported bill before Oct-7th. The onus is on your to prove your claims with the slightest bit of evidence beyond you say so.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just for context, the American algorithm was moved to be co-managed with an American company (Oracle) and is already a distinct product from the global version. So, these instances of the algorithm being manipulated post-2021 are not necessarily the result of China directly. Either that or Oracle isn't paying close enough attention/the divergence wasn't really impactful in a practical sense. I have no clue what the actual impact of that change was, but some of the instances the report cites were from before 2021, so they may not be relevant to the app as it exists right now. The problem was that even if there was an American subsidiary running an American algorithm on American datacenters, the implementation of this was largely superficial. In reality, the employees of the American subsidiary were still taking orders from bosses in Bytedance, running code written by Bytedance employees, and still doing much of their work on Bytedance-owned systems hosted in China. There were frequent reports from ex-employees, leakers, and auditors that Bytedance was exercising far more control over the American subsidiary than they claimed to, that the technology wasn't as separated and cordoned off as they claimed, that the subsidiary would sometimes intentionally send user data to China in response to requests from Bytedance management, and that Oracle wasn't really providing any meaningful oversight. While it's not really clear how much of this was malice vs inompetence, what is clear is that Project Texas was never really implemented thoroughly enough to restore trust in Tiktok. Here's a couple of good pieces on it: https://fortune.com/2024/04/15/tiktok-china-data-sharing-bytedance-project-texas/ https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/24/technology/inside-how-tiktok-shares-user-data-lark.html
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Apr 24, 2024 18:25
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Regarding fox news and censorship, how much culpability do they have for mass shooters or people commiting hate crimes against immigrants or the lgbtq community, thanks to the talking heads who spew hateful gibberish all day long? I would argue that at some point their "free speech" crosses the boundary to the yelling fire in a crowded theater threshold at bare minimum. All news outlets should be held to standards of factual accuracy and inflammatory hate speech should not be considered free speech, particularly when it has the consequence of leading to actual violence. Censorship be damned, there are a lot of US media outlets that are doing about as much damage to American brains as leaded gasoline
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Apr 24, 2024 18:26
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^^^ I think that's a huge slippery slope & a dangerous approach that will be wielded against the left as much (if not more) than the right. Hell, look at what's happening to the college students accused of "inflammatory hate speech" toward Jews right now.RBA Starblade posted:To be clear, I want all social media banned, besides our happy forums here. I'm not a fan. What's the line between social media & traditional media? Is it the gatekeeping? You originally said that you don't think people here would object to Fox News being banned, but that's trad media, not social media. Would you be happy if Fox News were banned, and if so, do you believe that the government should be able to wield the power to do so? eta: In which case my additional questions to your prior post are still relevant. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 18:28
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Willa Rogers posted:^^^ I think that's a huge slippery slope & a dangerous approach that will be wielded against the left as much (if not more) than the right. That wasn't really related to my other comment, I just don't think most people here are particularly fond of Fox News.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:31
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Crows Turn Off posted:Not exactly banning Fox News, but it wouldn't exist as it does today if the Fairness Doctrine was not reversed in the 80s. This is complete erasure of the fine work of Alan Colmes
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Apr 24, 2024 18:34
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Willa Rogers posted:^^^ I think that's a huge slippery slope & a dangerous approach that will be wielded against the left as much (if not more) than the right. Hell, look at what's happening to the college students accused of "hate speech" toward Jews right now. Lenin said that the only justification for the existence of the bourgeois and private media was to undermine the vanguard class. Anything else is a slow slide into fascism.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:34
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If the Feds really care that much about TikTok, I just wished they could have waited six months so we could dodge the election attack ads
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Apr 24, 2024 18:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Lenin said that the only justification for the existence of the bourgeois and private media was to undermine the vanguard class. Anything else is a slow slide into fascism. I've read Lenin pretty extensively and am not familiar with this claim; do you have a citation for this paraphrase?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:38
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Main Paineframe posted:The problem was that even if there was an American subsidiary running an American algorithm on American datacenters, the implementation of this was largely superficial. In reality, the employees of the American subsidiary were still taking orders from bosses in Bytedance, running code written by Bytedance employees, and still doing much of their work on Bytedance-owned systems hosted in China. There were frequent reports from ex-employees, leakers, and auditors that Bytedance was exercising far more control over the American subsidiary than they claimed to, that the technology wasn't as separated and cordoned off as they claimed, that the subsidiary would sometimes intentionally send user data to China in response to requests from Bytedance management, and that Oracle wasn't really providing any meaningful oversight. While it's not really clear how much of this was malice vs inompetence, what is clear is that Project Texas was never really implemented thoroughly enough to restore trust in Tiktok. quote:Ultimately, the tapes suggest that the company may have misled lawmakers, its users, and the public by downplaying that data stored in the US could still be accessed by employees in China. quote:Project Texas is key to a contract that TikTok is currently negotiating with cloud services provider Oracle and CFIUS. Under the CFIUS agreement, TikTok would hold US users’ protected private information, like phone numbers and birthdays, exclusively at a data center managed by Oracle in Texas (hence the project name). This data would only be accessible by specific US-based TikTok employees. What data counts as “protected” is still being negotiated, but the recordings indicate that all public data, including users’ public profiles and everything they post, will not be included. (Disclosure: In a previous life, I held policy positions at Facebook and Spotify.) Oracle did not respond to a request for comment. CFIUS declined to comment. Vague fearmongering invoking the authority of one Ted Cruz: quote:There is, however, another concern: that the soft power of the Chinese government could impact how ByteDance executives direct their American counterparts to adjust the levers of TikTok’s powerful “For You” algorithm, which recommends videos to its more than 1 billion users. Sen. Ted Cruz, for instance, has called TikTok “a Trojan horse the Chinese Communist Party can use to influence what Americans see, hear, and ultimately think." The article was penned prior to the completion of the project but indicates the project is planned to limit any potential access from China: quote:TikTok has said in blog posts and public statements that it physically stores all data about its US users in the US, with backups in Singapore. This does mitigate some risks — the company says this data is not subject to Chinese law — but it does not address the fact that China-based employees can access the data, experts say. The challenges it cites by these employees are again lacking in evidence and heavy in feeling. These are so broad that they could easily imply incompetence on the part of Booz Allen et al, or simply indicate that, like many codebases, the structure is complex and insufficiently documented: quote:In September 2021, one consultant said to colleagues, “I feel like with these tools, there’s some backdoor to access user data in almost all of them, which is exhausting.” The rest of the article (which is by a former employee of Facebook in charge of policy) is full of similar attempts to raise fear, uncertainty, and doubt over what it acknowledges was a work in motion when it was written. I do not think it is "a good piece," and I don't understand how someone who read it would think it is.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:42
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Crows Turn Off posted:Not exactly banning Fox News, but it wouldn't exist as it does today if the Fairness Doctrine was not reversed in the 80s. I considered the Fairness Doctrine to be the opposite of censorship, but it's totally unworkable under today's traditional media much less social media. Twitter's "community notes" are the closest thing to an independent rebuttal similar to the doctrine short of government interference.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:43
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Majorian posted:I've read Lenin pretty extensively and am not familiar with this claim; do you have a citation for this paraphrase? quote:Lenin’s speech, in which he said that the day of pure democracy was finished and that freedom of speech and the freedom of the Press were its two chief characteristics. “Why should these things be allowed?” he went on. “Why should a Government which is doing what it believes to be right allow itself to be criticised? It would not allow opposition by lethal weapons. Ideas are much more fatal things than guns. And as to the freedom of the Press, why should any man be allowed to buy a printing press and disseminate pernicious opinions calculated to embarrass the Government?” quote:All over the world, wherever there are capitalists, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy and fake “public opinion” for the benefit of the bourgeoisie. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/aug/05.htm Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 18:53
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Professor Beetus posted:Regarding fox news and censorship, how much culpability do they have for mass shooters or people commiting hate crimes against immigrants or the lgbtq community, thanks to the talking heads who spew hateful gibberish all day long? I would argue that at some point their "free speech" crosses the boundary to the yelling fire in a crowded theater threshold at bare minimum. All news outlets should be held to standards of factual accuracy and inflammatory hate speech should not be considered free speech, particularly when it has the consequence of leading to actual violence. Censorship be damned, there are a lot of US media outlets that are doing about as much damage to American brains as leaded gasoline Under current Supreme Court jurisprudence, none whatsoever. Under Brandenburg, even open and direct advocacy of violence is protected under the First Amendment, unless it is thought to be intended to provoke imminent lawless action. And I put that much emphasis on "imminent" because it is an extremely important element that the court set a very high bar for. If someone attends a speech calling for person X to be murdered, and then a few days later that someone goes out and murders person X, it's unlikely that this would be "imminent" enough to satisfy the conditions of Brandenburg and hold the speech-giver responsible. mawarannahr posted:The Buzzfeed article is remarkably airy and evidence free. Sounds like it exactly lines up with my claim that "While it's not really clear how much of this was malice vs inompetence, what is clear is that Project Texas was never really implemented thoroughly enough to restore trust in Tiktok". I posted these articles to substantiate specific claims I was making, after all. The fact is that Tiktok was not effectively protecting US user data from Bytedance. Even if it was just the result of incompetence, that's still more than enough to shred the credibility of Project Texas. Though I find it rather amusing that you're taking Tiktok at its word about what it planned to do, while at the same time discounting the complaints of employees and consultants who felt that reality didn't line up with Tiktok's claims. These are actual recorded meetings with actual Tiktok employees, and you're handwaving them away by pointing to Tiktok's own statements and blog posts.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:58
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theCalamity posted:Yeah their concerns over privacy and data protection rings hollow when the other social media platforms aren’t getting regulated as well. China doesn’t even need TikTok to get data on Americans, they can just buy it from data brokers. It's not US but TikTok got fined €345 million last fall for privacy violations https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/following-edpb-decision-tiktok-ordered-eliminate-unfair-design-practices-concerning_en
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Apr 24, 2024 18:58
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Ah, I misread your paraphrase. I thought you said Lenin claimed that the justification for the existence of the bourgeiosie was to undermine the vanguard class, which seemed...odd. "Bourgeois media" makes a lot more sense. My bad!
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Apr 24, 2024 19:02
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Young Freud posted:Elon's already talking about resurrecting Vine (since Twitter bought it then shuttered it), in addition to pivoting Twitter to video. Also, given the Tesla earnings report Tuesday, I doubt he has the money to do so. David Sacks/Peter Thiel are exactly the type of ghouls lurking in the shadows that would be waiting to take over TikTok if Dumb gently caress Donnie returns to power.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:03
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https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1782887439318524097 Gonna be surreal seeing the official Biden campaign tiktok post videos campaigning for him. The official account just posted a video about Dark Brandon dragging Trump a few minutes ago after Biden signed the law banning TikTok.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:03
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Rust Martialis posted:It's not US but TikTok got fined €345 million last fall for privacy violations That’s great but this is about the US, not the EU. I don’t doubt that TikTok isnt protecting data. I feel the same way about all of the social media. But if the government was concerned about our data, they need to not just focus on one app
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Apr 24, 2024 19:06
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idgi why anyone is using Tik Tok when there is Truth Social 
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Apr 24, 2024 19:09
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theCalamity posted:That’s great but this is about the US, not the EU. I don’t doubt that TikTok isnt protecting data. I feel the same way about all of the social media. But if the government was concerned about our data, they need to not just focus on one app Congress doesn't care about TikTok selling ad targeting. But they do care about foreign governments mobilizing influence, both overtly (like with the phone campaign) and covertly (who can even say whats possible just by putting your finger on the scale behind the scenes.)
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Apr 24, 2024 19:17
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theCalamity posted:That’s great but this is about the US, not the EU. I don’t doubt that TikTok isnt protecting data. I feel the same way about all of the social media. But if the government was concerned about our data, they need to not just focus on one app Some people are concerned about U.S. user data in the abstract, but the big thing is that China has access to that user data for economic, espionage, or political reasons. Many of them care about the data in that respect. It's the China/foreign government aspect and not the specific data practices. I don't have strong feelings either way, but it isn't that difficult to imagine why U.S. government and business officials would not like the Chinese government having access to data on 170 million American devices.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:18
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Nenonen posted:idgi why anyone is using Tik Tok when there is Truth Social I also don't get why Trump would even give lip service to "saving" TikTok when he could instead just shill Truth Social as a perfect, huge replacement for it. 
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Apr 24, 2024 19:18
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i think very clearly Congress just wants to ban platforms that are used by people critical of the US and theres nothing more too it. Same reason theyre doing everything possible to outlaw pro-Palestine protests. Tik Tok is doing nothing with its algorithm or data collection than other social media app. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 24, 2024 19:20
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Angry_Ed posted:I also don't get why Trump would even give lip service to "saving" TikTok when he could instead just shill Truth Social as a perfect, huge replacement for it. because trump says whatever so he can be everything for everyone, this is all he has ever done
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Apr 24, 2024 19:20
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punishedkissinger posted:i think very clearly Congress just wants to ban platforms that are used by people critical of the US and theres nothing more too it. Same reason theyre doing everything possible to outlaw pro-Palestine protests. Tik Tok is doing nothing with its algorithm or data collection than other social media app. They are, though. That is the literal reason the whole controversy started.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:24
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Jaxyon posted:because trump says whatever so he can be everything for everyone, this is all he has ever done Right but I'm saying I believe that, if the choice is between him lying about saving TikTok to instead trying to make money off the situation via Truth Social, he is going to choose the latter. EDIT: of course he's already pretending that he never tried to ban TikTok in the first place so I'm obviously wrong about this.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:25
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