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punishedkissinger posted:https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-condemns-antisemitic-protests-palestine-columbia-university/ That's not calling them terrorists, it's dumb and he's on the wrong side of this still.
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Apr 25, 2024 14:34
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News is also brewing of a bill moving quietly that will allow nonprofits to have their designation yanked without the formal process that currently exists: https://x.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1783129420598837506 Why would a party that supports the right to protest support this? There are already laws that criminalize supporting terrorist orgs, you would only need this if you wanted to yank the status without due process or being able to prove your claims, right? Would you be comfortable with Trump having this power?
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Apr 25, 2024 14:35
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socialsecurity posted:That's not calling them terrorists, it's dumb and he's on the wrong side of this still. yeah, calling the protests antisemitic and then implying they are "echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations" is not calling them terrorists sure (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 25, 2024 14:40
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punishedkissinger posted:yeah, calling the protests antisemitic and then implying they are "echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations" is not calling them terrorists He explicitly said the protests were fine and he supported the right to protest, but was condemning the people calling for violence against students who were part of a group of people that came in from the outside. He's not saying protesting is antisemitic. quote:calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous -- they have absolutely no place on any college campus, or anywhere in the United States of America. The protest leaders also condemned the same group. quote:“We are frustrated by media distractions focusing on inflammatory individuals who do not represent us,” the leaders wrote in a statement Sunday.
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Apr 25, 2024 14:46
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So the 3 people who love political semantics "ACTUALLY!  " debates can go talk about that. The Biden admin and the press especially very obviously want to draw the parallel from pro Palestine protests to terrorism. They want those flavors mixing in the populace's brains.(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) mutata fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 15:02
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Kchama posted:The point is that it's rude and obnoxious to tell people to go read some book or watch a long video to get your point. It is, as you basically put, a way to make people personally i think it's rude and obnoxious to, when given a source, ask the person providing it to go through it a second time for you and highlight the important bits instead of doing your own homework. but i'm willing to chalk that up to a difference of opinion.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:06
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:personally i think it's rude and obnoxious to, when given a source, ask the person providing it to go through it a second time for you and highlight the important bits instead of doing your own homework. but i'm willing to chalk that up to a difference of opinion. Just like how, in all my argumentative papers in college, I just pasted a link to my source in the intro paragraph and wrote "As you can clearly see from the source material, I am right."
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Apr 25, 2024 15:11
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:personally i think it's rude and obnoxious to, when given a source, ask the person providing it to go through it a second time for you and highlight the important bits instead of doing your own homework. but i'm willing to chalk that up to a difference of opinion. Homework in this case is listening to 90 minutes of audio looking for a single sentence?
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Apr 25, 2024 15:15
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mutata posted:So the 3 people who love political semantics "ACTUALLY!
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Apr 25, 2024 15:16
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Audio is impossible to search or skim, expecting someone to spend 1.5 hours on fully understanding your post is not reasonable
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Apr 25, 2024 15:17
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if nothing else it's just polite to give a relevant timestamp. nothing wrong with asking for one, either
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Apr 25, 2024 15:18
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mutata posted:So the 3 people who love political semantics "ACTUALLY! they censured Rashida Tlaib and passed resolutions equating Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism, but they're definitely not calling the antizionist protesters terrorists, that's ridiculous.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:18
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punishedkissinger posted:yeah, calling the protests antisemitic and then implying they are "echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations" is not calling them terrorists This sarcasm isn't as effective as you think it is. You're free (and possibly correct) to assert that they're equally bad things, but they're still 2 different things.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:19
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socialsecurity posted:Homework in this case is listening to 90 minutes of audio looking for a single sentence? as opposed to asking someone else to do it for you? yes.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:20
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:personally i think it's rude and obnoxious to, when given a source, ask the person providing it to go through it a second time for you and highlight the important bits instead of doing your own homework. but i'm willing to chalk that up to a difference of opinion. It's the next day and you are still dying on this hill. Maybe give this a little bit of thought: Uncle Boogeyman posted:At that point I would probably take a step back and ask myself how committed I am to disagreeing with this person on the internet. punishedkissinger posted:they censured Rashida Tlaib and passed resolutions equating Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism, but they're definitely not calling the antizionist protesters terrorists, that's ridiculous. Who's "they" here? Are we moving on from "Biden called the protesters terrorists" to "someone called the protesters terrorists"? DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 15:20
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Nonsense posted:Jesus Christ New York: great news for Trump and his many forthcoming appeals
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Apr 25, 2024 15:20
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DeadlyMuffin posted:It's the next day and you are still dying on this hill. like I said, I'm willing to chalk this up as a difference of opinion. no hard feelings!
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Apr 25, 2024 15:21
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https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1783498616788705652 Why is Trump's legal team trying to get him killed?
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Apr 25, 2024 15:22
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Sir Lemming posted:This sarcasm isn't as effective as you think it is. I can guarantee that if Trump were president and did the exact same things you wouldn't be drawing these kind of ridiculous pedantic distinctions
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Apr 25, 2024 15:24
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Forget it, Jake, it's Pedanttown.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:25
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punishedkissinger posted:I can guarantee that if Trump were president and did the exact same things you wouldn't be drawing these kind of ridiculous pedantic distinctions So your argument is that someone would in theory make something up about what Trump said which makes it ok for you to actually make stuff up about what Biden said?
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Apr 25, 2024 15:36
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Kith posted:if nothing else it's just polite to give a relevant timestamp. nothing wrong with asking for one, either It's this. On the one hand, we should generally assume that people in the thread are posting in good faith and that if someone makes claim about something said in a podcast, they are telling the truth. On the other hand, asking for a timestamp so that one can listen to the quote itself (and the context around it) is also reasonable. There's no reason to demean anyone here. No one did anything "wrong". Sir Lemming posted:You're free (and possibly correct) to assert that they're equally bad things, but they're still 2 different things. It's a distinction without a difference. Hell, at least it takes some modicum of balls to openly call someone an Anti-Semite. "they are echoing terrorist rhetoric" is such a cowardly way to say the same thing. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 15:36
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socialsecurity posted:So your argument is that someone would in theory make something up about what Trump said which makes it ok for you to actually make stuff up about what Biden said? My argument is that the Biden administration has very clearly made statements implying that antizionist protesters are antisemites and terrorists, which they objectively have done. the only counterargument that has been made is that they only believe ~some~ of the protesters are antisemites and terrorists. this rings incredibly hollow given the context that dems overwhelmingly have voted to equate antizionism and antisemitism and have censured members of their own party for criticizing Israel. If a Trump admin made the exact same statements, we all know that this thread would not be defending it. punishedkissinger fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 15:40
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punishedkissinger posted:My argument is that the Biden administration has very clearly made statements implying that antizionist protesters are antisemites and terrorists, which they objectively have done. the only counterargument that has been made is that they only believe ~some~ of the protesters are antisemites and terrorists. You haven't provided a source of Biden calling *anyone* a terrorist for protesting. Now you're moving the goalposts to the Biden administration and you still haven't provided a source for that. Saying someone uses the rhetoric of terrorists doesn't mean they're a terrorist.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:50
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selec posted:News is also brewing of a bill moving quietly that will allow nonprofits to have their designation yanked without the formal process that currently exists: I don't entirely agree with her characterization of the bill re "virtually no accountability or meaningful recourse" but she's correct that it's both redundant and worse than the status quo. quote:“(E) ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW BY INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE INDEPENDENT OFFICE OF APPEALS.—In the case of the designation of an organization by the Secretary as a terrorist supporting organization under subparagraph (B), a dispute regarding such designation shall be subject to resolution by the Internal Revenue Service Independent Office of Appeals under section 7803(e) in the same manner as if such designation were made by the Internal Revenue Service and paragraph (5) of this subsection did not apply. Best case, the Treasury Secretary can unilaterally cause a big hassle for any given nonprofit.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:50
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In other news, convicted rapist Harvey Weinstein is no longer a convicted rapist. He is now just a regular rapist. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/25/nyregion/harvey-weinstein-appeal quote:New York’s highest court on Thursday overturned Harvey Weinstein’s 2020 conviction on felony sex crime charges, a stunning reversal in the foundational case of the #MeToo era.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:52
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Doesn't he also have a conviction in California? So he will get extradited to LA and go right back to jail.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:54
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Saying someone uses the rhetoric of terrorists doesn't mean they're a terrorist. come the gently caress on "they were only implying the protesters were SIMILAR to terrorists" give me a loving break
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Apr 25, 2024 15:54
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punishedkissinger posted:My argument is that the Biden administration has very clearly made statements implying that antizionist protesters are antisemites and terrorists, which they objectively have done. the only counterargument that has been made is that they only believe ~some~ of the protesters are antisemites and terrorists. Adding "objectively" and "very clearly" to an argument someone already proved false doesn't make it right. quote:this rings incredibly hollow given the context that dems overwhelmingly have voted to equate antizionism and antisemitism and have censured members of their own party for criticizing Israel. Your argument rings hollow given the context that what you're accusing him of saying are two different statements that you're conflating because you want to argue what you imagine he meant. But that being convenient to your argument isn't enough to prove it. quote:If a Trump admin made the exact same statements, we all know that this thread would not be defending it. I would call this statement a straw man, but you're not just arguing against something that someone didn't say. You're accusing an imaginary person of making an imaginary argument about an imaginary event. It is a straw farm.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:55
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punishedkissinger posted:I can guarantee that if Trump were president and did the exact same things you wouldn't be drawing these kind of ridiculous pedantic distinctions mutata posted:Forget it, Jake, it's Pedanttown. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 25, 2024 15:56
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davecrazy posted:Doesn't he also have a conviction in California? Oh you're absolutely right. Serves me right for not clicking on "expand story." quote:The ruling does not mean Mr. Weinstein, who is being held in an upstate New York prison, is a free man. He was sentenced in 2022 to 16 years in prison in California after he was convicted of raping a woman in a Beverly Hills hotel, and will now be sent to California to continue his sentence on the convictions there, according to his spokesman. Harvey Weinstein, still a convicted rapist.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:56
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punishedkissinger posted:they only believe ~some~ of the protesters are antisemites and terrorists. "Some of the protesters are antisemites" is objectively true, it's just also a deflection that makes pro-Israel peeps very happy because it moves the conversation from what Israel is doing to nitpicking about how many of the protesters are being terrible and how much the main movement should distance itself. At Columbia iirc the people saying dumb bad things weren't even on the campus (and didn't look to be especially numerous).
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Apr 25, 2024 15:59
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OscarDiggs posted:How does the current response to these protests compare to the response the Vietnam protests got? Considering the number of bombs set off by anti Vietnam War groups, harsher by proportion. Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 16:00
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Goatse James Bond posted:"Some of the protesters are antisemites" is objectively true, it's just also a deflection that makes pro-Israel peeps very happy because it moves the conversation from what Israel is doing to nitpicking about how many of the protesters are being terrible and how much the main movement should distance itself. At Columbia iirc the people saying dumb bad things weren't even on the campus (and didn't look to be especially numerous). Right, and the Biden administration has made statements that conflate the two or otherwise make no distinction. This is incredibly dangerous and harmful and no one should defend it.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:01
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punishedkissinger posted:come the gently caress on Only if you think "echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations" implies that the people doing the echoing are similar to terrorists. It's probably a reference to the "from the river to the sea" line, or something similar. There are plenty of terrible things to get mad about, you don't need to invent new ones. OscarDiggs posted:How does the current response to these protests compare to the response the Vietnam protests got? Not there yet. 
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Apr 25, 2024 16:02
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Kith posted:if nothing else it's just polite to give a relevant timestamp. nothing wrong with asking for one, either Someone already did this (you can go to about 8:40 and hear her describe it, as they pointed out), but there’s still posts being made as if it didn’t happen.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:03
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Nucleic Acids posted:Someone already did this (you can go to about 8:40 and hear her describe it, as they pointed out), but there’s still posts being made as if it didn’t happen. Because someone else gave the timestamp and the person that refused to came back today and restarted the argument as if it didn't happen.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:07
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Discendo Vox posted:We are required by current moderation policies to entertain and respond to unserious arguments. The users who make them have the right to play. I appreciate what you did here, you serious interlocutor you
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Apr 25, 2024 16:08
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DeadlyMuffin posted:
But probably pretty soon given bipartisan calls for the national guard to be deployed.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:10
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punishedkissinger posted:Right, and the Biden administration has made statements that conflate the two or otherwise make no distinction. This is incredibly dangerous and harmful and no one should defend it.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:12
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