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How Many QB's "bust" out of this Class?
Whoever the Giants trade up for.
Bears QB Purgatory Continues
All of them.
None. They all become mediocre.
View Results
 
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Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

Play posted:

Another fast guy who can't loving catch for Mahomes. Mecole Hardman 2.0

Now now, Mecole couldn't run routes either and Worthy apparently can a little bit. So he might be open and targeted while he drops said passes.

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The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*
Honestly understand this more from the Bills perspective. I don't think anyone was going to take Worthy before 32.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Play posted:

Another fast guy who can't loving catch for Mahomes. Mecole Hardman 2.0

c'mon man you know they are nothing alike

Detheros
Apr 11, 2010

I want to die.



fartknocker posted:

gently caress the Cowboys

:hmmyes:

solarjetman
Jan 27, 2001

Fun Shoe
why would the bills trade with the chiefs.

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

I hope the Cowboys take someone the Ravens don't need

Relentlessboredomm
Oct 15, 2006

It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."
Guyton or JPJ right/

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg
Oct 4, 2004

ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

solarjetman posted:

why would the bills trade with the chiefs.

They're morons

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

AndrewP posted:

I hope the Cowboys take someone the Ravens don't need

gently caress

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Grittybeard posted:

Now now, Mecole couldn't run routes either and Worthy apparently can a little bit. So he might be open and targeted while he drops said passes.

It’s doesn’t matter anyway chiefs WRs only drop passes in the regular season

Relentlessboredomm
Oct 15, 2006

It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."
Washington you better trade up, it's getting thin at T

Do not even ask
Apr 8, 2008


all-in-boys select guybrush

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

Ravens about to trade down lol

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Dallas makes good pick

ugh

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Ornery and Hornery posted:

I am rooting for KC to get a strapping and proficient WR or LT for mr Mahomes.

Worthy! What a splendid pick for KC! Just a delightful weapon for Patrick Mahomes :)

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

Mystic Stylez posted:

I'll be mad if the Cowboys pick Guyton one ahead of the Ravens

lol

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
It’s hilarious how many picks are in instantly but it still takes like ten minutes to announce them

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

that is a dangerous round of hugs, lots of large dudes aggressively hugging

The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*
And there goes the Ravens last shot at a 1st round tackle. Got to be corner for Baltimore. I'm guessing Dejean. As Hamilton shows they love them some versatility.

Play
Apr 25, 2006

Strong stroll for a mangy stray

AndrewP posted:

let's pump the brakes on calling this guy the next Tyreek Hill just because he's fast, drat. Tyreek Hills are loving rare

No kidding, literally no chance he is Tyreek Hill. More like John Ross than Tyreek Hill

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?

solarjetman posted:

why would the bills trade with the chiefs.

Because they didn't want Worthy and the teams behind them aren't drafting WR. They got a huge move up later for not losing much.

3 DONG HORSE
May 22, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


fartknocker posted:

y'all gonna 3-peat

They're gonna have to get past the hardest, most badass division in football first. The Gauntlet. Starring Bo Nix. Featuring Herbaugh. The Raiders are present too.

Jen X
Sep 29, 2014

To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.
good pick, drat it jerry

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

The Puppy Bowl posted:

Honestly understand this more from the Bills perspective. I don't think anyone was going to take Worthy before 32.

guess we'll never know!


I love Worthy


I loved Brian Thomas more but this is a great consolation prize. He's going to be perfect in our offense

Comfortador
Jul 31, 2003

Just give me all the 3ggs_n_b4con you have.

Wait...wait.

I worry what you just heard was...
"Give me a lot of b4con_n_3ggs."

What I said was...
"Give me all the 3ggs_n_b4con you have"

...Do you understand?
Lol drafted by the Cowboys with a relative wearing a SF hat and shirt

Play
Apr 25, 2006

Strong stroll for a mangy stray

CharlestheHammer posted:

It’s hilarious how many picks are in instantly but it still takes like ten minutes to announce them

i was gonna say it's loving irritating and makes me want to shoot someone but I guess 'hilarious' works too

BillsPhoenix
Jun 29, 2023
But what if Russia aren't the bad guys? I'm just asking questions...
Who was going to take worthy before 32?

Dude gets shut down by any decent corner, 165lbs is tiny.

In the other hand we got... not much.

Silly Burrito
Nov 27, 2007

SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT
It's weird, KC had a drought at WR and it looks like it's raining now.

The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*

kiimo posted:

guess we'll never know!


I love Worthy


I loved Brian Thomas more but this is a great consolation prize. He's going to be perfect in our offense

I'd be a lot more on board if they didn't also have Hollywood. That's two very little dudes with iffy hands.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Play posted:

No kidding, literally no chance he is Tyreek Hill. More like John Ross than Tyreek Hill

He is nothing like Tyreek but he's also nothing like Rosss

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

5’11” 168 pounds lmao

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?

CharlestheHammer posted:

It’s hilarious how many picks are in instantly but it still takes like ten minutes to announce them

Yeah, on twitter they're like 2 picks ahead.

Ace Jameson
Feb 10, 2006
have to imagine it’s a dream to get drafted out of oklahoma to the cowboys, now if he could only figure out how to put a hat on his head his life would be complete

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

Dundalk representing hard in Detroit

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?

BillsPhoenix posted:

Who was going to take worthy before 32?

Dude gets shut down by any decent corner, 165lbs is tiny.

In the other hand we got... not much.

Moved up like 40 picks later in the third to miss out on guys you probably weren't going to draft. It's smart IMO.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Packers have plenty of ammunition with 41/58/88/91. Wouldn't hate a move up for DeJean.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




wandler20 posted:

Yeah, on twitter they're like 2 picks ahead.

Bal gets Wiggins

AndrewP
Apr 21, 2010

Ozzy sitting at the head of the table. Where's Eric?

The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Ace Jameson posted:

have to imagine it’s a dream to get drafted out of oklahoma to the cowboys, now if he could only figure out how to put a hat on his head his life would be complete

Big task for a head that size.

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kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Play posted:

No kidding, literally no chance he is Tyreek Hill. More like John Ross than Tyreek Hill


quote:

In this year’s “know your draft crush” series, I’m once again examining various wide receivers the Chiefs could target in early rounds of the draft. Fortunately, the 2024 draft is packed with good WR prospects. In an attempt to figure out who would be the best fit in Kansas City, I’m looking at as many as possible, breaking down the film to look at the same traits for each player: Speed/acceleration/agility, releases, route running, hands/catch point work, YAC/playmaking, and an overall takeaway. Here are the guys we’ve looked at so far:


In today’s edition of “know your Chiefs draft crush,” we’ll be looking at Xavier Worthy, a player who has been connected (mostly through speculation based on history/preference of the team) with the Chiefs more often than almost anyone else in the draft. Worthy blew up the combine with a record-setting 4.21 40-yard dash and is widely considered (for good reason) one of the most electric playmakers in the draft. However, he’s undersized and many have questions about how he’ll adapt to the NFL given that limitation.

One of the great things about Worthy’s college career is that he’s played future NFL cornerbacks on several occasions, so we can dive into the film to try and answer whether he has the traits to translate to the next level. Is he Mecole Hardman (all due respect to a 3-time Super Bowl Champion) or Desean Jackson (or Hollywood Brown, or Tank Dell, etc)? As we all know, speed alone isn’t enough in the NFL. And not all speed translates to the field, and is harnessed correctly.

But sometimes it does, and when that happens it’s absolutely (apologies to Travis Kelce) electric. Let’s talk about it.

Xavier Worthy - Texas
Relevant measurements - 5’11”, 165 pounds

Games reviewed - Alabama, Houston, Oklahoma, TCU, Kansas State (2022), Alabama (2022)


(NOTE - Most of the video clips I’ll use will be to highlight positive traits, because they’re more fun to watch. But that doesn’t make the negative traits for a prospect any less real… it just means I like to show the fun things!)

-Speed / acceleration / agility-
Holy crap.

Look, as soon as you hear “4.21 40” your brain probably shuts off a bit when it comes to talking about speed. But it shouldn’t. Because as I said above, not all speedsters translate once the pads come on, or understand how to harness their speed in a way that grabs separation.

Xavier Worthy is not one of those guys.


Worthy’s speed shows up on film at all levels of the field, but in particular on deep routes (whether it’s a post, go, corner, deep crosser, whatever). He can absolutely fly in pads and can not only separate once he’s even with ease, but he can chew up ground on a defender with leverage and still be separated by the time he’s down the field.

Worthy isn’t just a “long speed” guy either. He accelerates terrifically and is able to grab separation fast on short and intermediate routes with good explosion off the line and when he cuts. His combination of quickness, acceleration, and long speed is legitimately difficult to find, and he utilizes it very effectively while varying his “gear” depending on what the situation calls for.


What I mean by this is that Worthy isn’t constantly sprinting 100 miles per hour. He seems to have a good grasp on the weapon that his speed/acceleration is and when to harness it. People talk a lot about “tempo” in route running (we’ll get more into that later), and Worthy does it well, setting a good pace for when to flip the switch and just sprint right past defenders who can’t keep up.


You can see when Worthy kicks it into 6th gear on this play. And when he does, the defender doesn’t have a chance unless he’s already sprinting deep. And Worthy helps avoid this with the tempo he runs it, saving the afterburners until he’s made his final cut. That’s utilization of speed that not every “sprinter” type shows at the NFL level, and it’s something that separates him from the Ross’s and Hardman’s of the world (who don’t have that same ability to effectively utilize their speed in pads).

Worthy, also has very good quickness (though not on the “God-tier” level his speed and acceleration are, which separates him from Tyreek Hill, whose freakishness extended to quickness as well) that allows him to start/stop and change direction well. Because he’s high level in all of these areas, he’s able to weaponize his athleticism all over the field and in multiple routes as opposed to being just a deep speed merchant. He also shows very good explosion with his first step, both off the line and in his breaks when he needs to separate at that point.

Worthy’s athleticism in all three aspects is something that sets him apart from the vast majority of prospects, and I cannot stress enough just how much of a mistake it would be to lump him in with failed speedsters who didn’t have the whole package as an athlete.

-Release ability-
The biggest question I get about Worthy is how he can handle press man coverage. I would note that this concern is generally a bit overblown because people get focused on a few highlights, but the reality is that true press man is pretty rare in the pros as well as college for a variety of reasons. The more important question is whether a receiver can get a clean release at the line without having the timing of the route screwed up, whether it’s pure press or a defender being physical right off the line.

Worthy was generally able to do so, in large part because of his combination of quickness and explosion. Defenders have a hard time getting hands on him because he has the ability to go horizontal and grab space from them, then push upfield to get “even” so fast that they can’t grab him without risking a hold.


This is the primary weapon Worthy utilizes to get himself free releases. He’s quick enough that he can skip a step to the side, then explodes fast enough to get away from potential leverage from the cornerback. He’s also more comfortable with contact than some smaller receivers (like McConkey, who despite being bigger than Worthy was slowed more frequently by contact throughout his routes and at the line) and appears to have a little more fluidity in dipping his shoulder to get around contact that’s offered at the line.

Because of Worthy’s size, if defenders are able to get a square punch on him they can jar and slow him at the line. However, because of his ability to prevent that square punch and his ability to dip around/through it, that only happened once or twice in the multiple games I watched (and plenty of corners tried it). The problem defenders faced is that his ability to get even quickly and then walk away is so dangerous that utilizing physicality at the line was too risky.


When a guy can stutter and explode into his route like that, it’s incredibly difficult to stay in front of him. And if you can’t stay in front of him, you can’t press him. That led to problems for every CB he faced at the college level, including several future pros. There’s just no safe way to press someone who can get even and then leave you behind this quickly.


I think that may stay the same at the NFL level. That agility COMBINED with the first step explosion is a terrific answer to press.

-Route running-
If Worthy had run a 4.31 instead of a 4.21, I think people would be talking about his route running more. Because he’s significantly better at it than he gets credit for. Watch the subtlety on this route, because this feels very similar to the type of thing that people rave about McConkey and Mitchell but don’t talk about as much with Worthy.


Remember when I talked about tempo? Worthy utilizes that here. He’s not in a hurry as he closes the distance to the CB, and leaves the defender wondering whether he’s setting up to explode down the field. He also doesn’t give any clue as to what direction he’ll be breaking if not going over the top. He then (without losing speed, a critical aspect in this) gives a couple of head fakes that gets the defender first turned outside, then hesitating thinking he’s going to need to execute a speed turn when Worthy cuts back. But the cutback never comes, and Worthy cuts pretty cleanly (not perfectly, but cleanly) outside to create easy separation.

Worthy’s speed has almost become a hindrance in talking about his route running, because the assumption I’ve found is that he’s not a technician. But he’s significantly better here than the vast majority of other guys with gifts that remotely approach his, and he does an excellent job overall setting up defenders with a combination of tempo shifts and head/step fakes that get defenders’ hips turned the wrong direction. And then it’s over.

Again, ignore the explosion and watch the way Worthy sets up his eventual curl here.


Worthy does a nice job selling a downfield route, then waits until the defender flips his hips (because he knows he can’t let Worthy get even). He then executes a quick turn and comes back towards the ball, which unfortunately isn’t delivered.

Worthy’s route running chops aren’t just limited to doing a nice job setting defenders up with fakes (which he does on deep routes as well, I should note). As I’ve said, he also tempos his routes well and varies his speed depending on where he’s at on the route. He also has a smoothness and liquidity to his movement that allows him to handle contact at the stem and elsewhere, something that is going to be very important at the next level (it’s really hindered Skyy Moore, for example). Worthy will often show flexibility around that contact and absorb it without losing too much off his speed and timing. Defenders have a tough time (similar to the line of scrimmage) laying a clear shot on him. That may change in the pros, but it’s promising at this point.

In terms of negatives, I’d note that Worthy does need more work in clearing his hands and getting defenders off him when they try and maintain contact as a way to read him or slow him down. He shares this issue with his teammate Adonai Mitchell, so I’m curious whether there’s a coaching point here that will be of assistance. He can be slowed up with maintained contact at times, so that’ll be the first thing to watch for.

Worthy also did show some nice spacing in his routes when running against zone, as well as the ability to vary his speed depending on where the windows were, but didn’t have to make a ton of sight adjustments. In the Chiefs offense, obviously, that will be a major part of what he needs to do and is currently an unknown.

Worthy’s route running, as I said, deserves more attention than it gets. He’s pretty nuanced in setting guys up and uses it to his advantage to create situations where he can run away from defenders who are wrong-footed. It’s a lot of fun to watch.

-Hands / strength at catch point-
This is not Worthy’s strength. While he showed the ability to track the ball deep and adjust to it over his shoulder (a crucial skill for a true deep threat rather than just a fast guy), his hands don’t seem particularly strong and he is not a contested catch player. He relies on getting that separation. When he’s not fighting contact he shows the ability to control his body and make tough catches, but not to the level of someone like Mitchell.

I didn’t see worthy has having terrible hands, but it’s not a point of strength. Given his skillset, it may not become an issue often, but it does place a few limits on what he can do in the red zone in particular.

-Yards after catch / playmaking-
Worthy, as one might expect, can be exceptional with the ball in his hands based on his speed, acceleration, and quickness alone. He’s able to make guys miss in space and can steal extra yardage other players cannot due to his ability to outrun angles to the sideline. He’s pretty fluid and looks comfortable finding the areas of the field to go after when he has the ball as well, and he’ll fight for yardage harder than one would expect from a player his size, bouncing off tacklers that don’t wrap up and doing what he can to secure every yard.

He’s definitely not a tackle-breaker, however, and is generally going to be brought down by a defender who gets a clean shot at him and doesn’t over-commit without wrapping up. So in that way one shouldn’t expect the Rashee Rice-type of shedding defenders or falling forward for multiple additional yards. It’s an area he has some very significant (and valuable) strengths, but it’s not as eye-popping as his athleticism and route-running. Though if he gets an angle, his ability to turn a short gain into a long one is something to see.

-Overall Takeaway-
Overall, I came into this film review with some skepticism given Worthy’s size. Any time you have a player who has a certain deficiency (size, speed, whatever), they need to have things in their toolbelt to compensate for that deficiency.

And with Worthy, at least on film, he absolutely does. His elite 3-prong athleticism (not JUST fast or JUST quick or JUST with terrific acceleration), along with his knowledge on how to utilize that to buy himself space, more than compensates for his lack of size and demonstrates why he was so productive even against top-tier competition. He’s a significantly better route runner than he gets credit for, with some nuance in how he sets defenders up and stacking moves on top of moves to get himself in position to run away from guys. He looks like he could walk on an NFL field tomorrow and generate separation at all 3 levels (particularly deep and intermediate) at a high level.

He’s not a contested catch guy by any stretch of the imagination, but to be perfectly frank that particular skillset is less valuable to me by a landslide than the ability to get open with consistency. And Worthy does exactly that.

My hesitancy about Worthy’s size had me coming in thinking I wouldn’t want the Chiefs to draft him in the first round. I’m fully on board now, and he’s a guy I could see as a terrific complement to Rice and Kelce’s game and as the pure “deep threat” guy in 2024 while Brown works the intermediate and shallow portion of the field (not to mention having two scary deep threats is, in fact, a good thing!). If he’s available at 32, I’d be very happy.

Next up on the “know your draft crush” list is Keon Coleman. I thought I’d go with a guy who is much more likely to be available late in the 2nd round, and a very different type of prospect than the guys we’ve looked at so far. After that, I’ll choose between Brian Thomas Jr. and Troy Franklin. But so far, this draft class (even as I’ve ignored the top 3 guys) has lived up to the hype.

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