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May 9, 2024 22:13
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- WhiskeyWhiskers
- Oct 14, 2013
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Can't post for 23 minutes!
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well that’s not right because that’s not how land “ownership” works in China
How do 'nail houses' occur given this? It must still be a pretty well protected right if an eminent domain equivalent can't even force a sale to the state.
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Apr 27, 2024 07:16
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- Josef bugman
- Nov 17, 2011
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Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)
This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
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I'm assuming, as it is an apartment, it's not freehold and means you may have to pay maintainence for the building/ground rent?
I'm not sure how these things work in China.
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Apr 27, 2024 07:24
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- crepeface
- Nov 5, 2004
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r*p*f*c*
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would it be like a 100yr lease kind of thing where descendents have an option to renew it?
iirc it's 70 years
fake edit: https://jerrygrey2002.substack.com/p/living-in-communist-china-whats-it
quote:I own my own apartment but I don’t own the land its on. My wife also owns an apartment but she doesn’t own the land it’s on either. We have 70-year leases which will last us until the end of our lives. So, effectively, we are living rent free in one of them and the other is sitting empty because it’s not an expensive apartment and there are plenty of rentals available so the market isn’t good, we might get 1200 RMB a month rental but we might also get a lot of headaches having a tenant in it.
So many people ask, why don’t you rent it out, and the answer is, it’s not worthwhile, there are no costs associated with keeping it empty – this is something I personally think should change – empty apartments should attract a property tax but, up to now, they don’t. We pay no rates, no property tax, the maintenance fees for the apartment are less than $100 a year – not a month, a year.
If we want to, when we get near the end of the 70-year lease (I’ll be 120 years old) we can extend it, as the people did who sold my apartment to me, 10 years ago, they extended it, it cost them 30,000 RMB, which is just over $4000 and got a new 70-year lease which I bought from them.
We don’t have children so, after we’re gone, the land will revert back to the country but the apartments on it will not. If the government wants to take them over, they must offer our estate the value at market price, if not, the estate can sell them and whoever my wife and I nominate as our beneficiaries will get the value, less the cost of re-registering the land use for a further 70 years..
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Apr 27, 2024 07:42
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- stephenthinkpad
- Jan 2, 2020
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A new apartment gives you 70 years ownership, so an really old apartment from the 90s will have 40 more years of ownership, there is no properly tax. And old apartments don't have any maintenance fee. But its not an realistic example because almost all 90s residential buildings were built in city centers and their value have gone up 100x fold.
Also that 3000 USD apart in Hegang is a meme super cheap example because its in the extreme northern tip of China bordering Russia, and you are going to pay alot for winter heating and live like a loving hermit.
So the other example is much better, a 6400 USD apartment, 3 hr train ride from Beijing, is pretty livable if you are a youtuber ("Uploader") or can work from home. I check Linghai is pretty close to the Yellow sea, its basically the same climate zone as Beijing, you are getting a few snows in the winter, so like comparable weather to some rust belt old town in the northern part. And the apartment was likely built in the 00s, you still have 50 years of ownership left.
What will happen after the 70 year ownership run out? They probably will switch to a property tax model on the provincial level.
stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 08:29 on Apr 27, 2024
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Apr 27, 2024 08:10
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- Mandoric
- Mar 15, 2003
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Just for fun, if you want to compare decaying cities 3 hours by train out of the real big city, look up apartment prices in Troy or Schenectady, NY.
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Apr 27, 2024 08:31
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- Josef bugman
- Nov 17, 2011
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Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)
This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
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I'd prefer it if the housing was free of course, but it is nice to see that it's generally a lot easier to get things like housing.
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Apr 27, 2024 09:43
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- Kassad
- Nov 12, 2005
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It's about time.
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I like the emphasis on "I don't own the land" about an apartment.
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Apr 27, 2024 10:17
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- Palladium
- May 8, 2012
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Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
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I like the emphasis on "I don't own the land" about an apartment.
landlords hate this trick
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Apr 27, 2024 10:18
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- Josef bugman
- Nov 17, 2011
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Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)
This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
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I mean that's how it is in the UK. Except not owning it means that you usually have to pay ground rent, or that it's much harder to sell if there is something like flammable cladding put on the building. Plus it isn't a cheap fee to renew and you generally need a mortgage to afford the flats on their own.
Don't buy a flat in the UK it is a pissing nightmare.
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Apr 27, 2024 10:27
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- Orange Devil
- Oct 1, 2010
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Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
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that’s true. but you will be able to live there basically as long as you want without paying rent or a mortgage
BUT AT WHAT COST?
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Apr 27, 2024 10:55
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- Tankbuster
- Oct 1, 2021
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extremely strange how cost of living becomes easily affordable once you take rent-seeking out of the equation
rent seeking is still there lol. Its just that infrastructure investment has suddenly made commuting to the city easier by several orders of magnitude.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:02
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- Palladium
- May 8, 2012
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Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
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speaking of infrastructure investment the shipping time of my packages from china to singapore went from 2 weeks to 3 days in a span of a decade
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Apr 27, 2024 11:10
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- Ardennes
- May 12, 2002
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You just cut it down considerably by building out infrastructure and public housing.
The same thing is happening in Moscow. It used to be one of the relatively most expensive cities in terms of living. Rent prices almost froze during mid-late 2010s and haven't really risen because there is so much infrastructure and housing going up even though the city is still growing in terms of population.
The econ thread kind of didn't want to hear it but one of the reasons that housing if f'ed in the US isn't just rent seeking (it exists) but just the supply of new housing isn't there with demand especially regionally. NYC only has so far to expand even if you take infrastructure into account and a lot of the US isn't that different. It is why the long term trend will likely still be positive, it is simply life will become even more desperate over time since there is no where for people to go but to cheaper cities.
Ardennes has issued a correction as of 11:25 on Apr 27, 2024
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Apr 27, 2024 11:13
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- Regarde Aduck
- Oct 19, 2012
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c l o u d k i t t e n
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Grimey Drawer
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Pretty sure the doomsday econ thread mainly exists for miserable computer touchers to take a bit of joy out of how bad things are for the majority of people
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Apr 27, 2024 11:24
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- Ardennes
- May 12, 2002
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Pretty sure the doomsday econ thread mainly exists for miserable computer touchers to take a bit of joy out of how bad things are for the majority of people
It is kind of a shame because there is plenty going on that is interesting both in the US and globally, but the thread is pretty chaotic, jammed with "big" personalities.
The UK/London is having somewhat of similar issue. The Elizabeth line did extend the range of the London metro but the HSR 2 was suppose to link housing in the north to London and it has already been so butchered it is somewhat pointless. I wouldn't be surprised if rents only climbed upwards.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:28
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- gradenko_2000
- Oct 5, 2010
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HELL SERPENT
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Lipstick Apathy
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Philippines’ Marcos Jnr has been rebranding himself as a human rights supporter. Is it working?
quote:- Marcos Jnr’s pro-US stance and measures to ‘elevate’ the Philippines have made him a ‘pivotal player’ on South China Sea issues among world leaders
- Critics say Marcos Jnr’s rebranding efforts could lead to actual human rights movements losing support and legitimacy
Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos Jnr’s efforts at rehabilitating his family image and rebranding himself as more pro-human rights than his predecessor look to be paying off, after Time magazine included him in its list of 100 Most Influential People of 2024.
The magazine’s write-up said Marcos Jnr had “elevated the Philippines on the world stage” through a number of measures, including a more technocratic administration, steadying the economy and strengthening its alliance with the United States to counter China’s aggression in the South China Sea.
Cleve Arguelles, a political scientist and head of polling firm WR Numero, told This Week in Asia that Marcos Jnr’s inclusion was hardly surprising, noting the Philippine president’s positive reception from the international community since his election in 2022.
Arguelles said the recent trilateral summit between Marcos Jnr, US President Joe Biden and Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida – which focused on strengthening their defensive capabilities in the Indo-Pacific region amid Manila’s maritime disputes with China – had placed the Philippine president in the international spotlight.
“He’s seen as a very pivotal player on this issue about China, and that occupies a lot of mental space among world leaders,” Arguelles said.
Countries such as the US were encouraged to boost Marcos Jnr’s image on the international stage out of geopolitical convenience, he added.
“No one else in Southeast Asia is so pro-US now [than the Philippines]. That speaks to the US’ insecurity in the area because they badly need a reliable ally in this part of the world because of China,” he said.
Marcos Jnr’s US-friendly stance is in stark contrast to former president Rodrigo Duterte, who realigned the country’s foreign policy towards China and stayed largely quiet about Beijing’s expansionism in the South China Sea.
The current president has also distanced himself from his predecessor’s controversial war on drugs, which rights activists say led to the extrajudicial killings of more than 12,000 Filipinos during Duterte’s administration, mostly among urban poor.
Following a drug bust on April 15 in which authorities confiscated 13.3 billion Philippine pesos’ (US$231 million) worth of methamphetamines, locally known as shabu, Marcos Jnr said: “This is the biggest shipment of shabu that [we’ve ever] intercepted. But not one person died. Nobody died. No shots were fired. Nobody was hurt.”
Despite this, drug-related killings have persisted since Marcos Jnr took office. According to a study from the University of the Philippines, as of April 15, 621 deaths have been recorded since he took office, 42 per cent of which were committed by state agents during anti-illegal drug operations.
The notion that Marcos Jnr is more concerned about human rights than his predecessor has gained significant credibility after two staunch critics of the Duterte government gave more favourable opinions about the current leadership.
Former senator Leila De Lima was politically persecuted by Duterte and jailed for more than six years over trumped-up charges before being allowed to post bail in November. In February, she said the Marcos Jnr administration had provided “breathing room” from Duterte’s “authoritarian regime”.
“Under [Marcos Jnr], we are given the opportunity to make use of a democratic space in transition from the authoritarian regime that was Duterte’s,” De Lima said. “This is a breathing room from the seven years of nightmare that we thought was all over in 1986 and never to return again. But it did.”
Nobel Peace Prize laureate Maria Ressa, founder of independent news outlet Rappler, said there appeared to be a “lifting of fear” for journalists since Marcos Jnr took office.
“There’s been a lot of problems in the Philippines because fear spreads. But [press freedom] has improved … Is it perfect? Far from it. We still have a lot of work to do,” she said.
Ressa was acquitted of a final tax evasion charge in September. Press freedom advocates had decried the charge against Ressa as being politically motivated by Rappler’s critical coverage of Duterte’s administration and drug war.
However, Arguelles said there was danger in over-celebrating the “bare minimum” that the Marcos Jnr administration had achieved in terms of human rights.
“If the US and Western leaders are doing this out of geopolitical convenience, I think the danger is that [locally] we do this out of convenience because we want to get rid of the Dutertes. We end up legitimising the Marcoses. But we have to be reminded that they are not friends of democracy, human rights, and liberal values in the Philippines,” Arguelles warned.
Marcos Jnr has repeatedly refused to apologise for the well-documented human rights violations that occurred under his father’s 21-year martial law regime – including rampant corruption and the targeting of political opponents, student activists and journalists.
Critics say his presidential campaigned utilised misleading propaganda to rewrite that history in the minds of voters.
Athena Charanne Presto, a sociologist from the University of the Philippines, said Marcos Jnr’s new-found image as a human rights supporter could lead to legitimate human rights movements losing support and legitimacy.
“[Marcos Jnr’s] narrative during the election was that his family was a victim of history by people in power. Because you have that powerful narrative legitimised, others such as those in the impoverished sector, young people who feel they are voiceless in Philippine society, may find themselves relating to that. For martial law victims, it can be difficult to compete with perceived marginalised voices, like the Marcos family competing with their narratives,” she said.
Arguelles said Marcos Jnr’s efforts to rebrand himself could be about widening his support base, with his relationship with Duterte becoming increasingly antagonistic.
Duterte’s daughter, Vice-President Sara Duterte-Carpio, joined Marcos Jnr’s presidential campaign, uniting the supporters of both politically prominent families. In recent months, however, the president and his predecessor have been trading insults and accusations of drug use.
“[The Marcoses] know that they have to test new ideas, otherwise it’s going to be a problem for them. They know the Dutertes are a significant threat to them, and that they are kings and queens of using public opinion to their advantage,” Arguelles said.
However, Marcos Jnr’s attempts to revamp his image do not appear to be helping him win over the public. A Pulse Asia survey found his approval rating had declined from 68 per cent in December to 55 per cent in March.
Arguelles said the president must address domestic issues such as rising prices of goods, hunger and poverty, and jobs and economic opportunities to win back public favour.
“If you’re failing on the domestic side, I don’t think you can just use the international side to fill in that gap,” he said.
Meanwhile, Presto the sociologist said her work in youth politics showed young people remained critical of the president.
“[They are] saying things such as, ‘I will believe it when [Marcos Jnr] legalises divorce, when [he] legalises same-sex marriage,” she said.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:31
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- Tankbuster
- Oct 1, 2021
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gradenko, does the media in the phillipines also do the thing where they put american reactions on a higher plane than local reactions?
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Apr 27, 2024 11:34
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- gradenko_2000
- Oct 5, 2010
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HELL SERPENT
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Lipstick Apathy
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prior to 2022, I predicted that the political terrain would be ripe for political demagoguery from the perspective of anti-China posturing, as a counterweight to Duterte's political demagoguery as a pro-China politician (and notwithstanding the media actively promoting Duterte's image as pro-China for their own ideological ends)
I did not guess that it was going to be Marcos himself that would take advantage of this, especially given that the media attempted to smear him as being pro-China himself, as an electioneering tactic, but apparently that is what is going to happen
the complete collapse of the liberal opposition in the Philippines means that in order to have a horse race, it's going to have to be between Marcos and Duterte, with the former to be regarded as a lesser-evil
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Apr 27, 2024 11:36
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- ModernMajorGeneral
- Jun 25, 2010
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you really think the US and western leaders would do that? Just... celebrate someone's human rights record out of geopolitical convenience?
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Apr 27, 2024 11:37
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- gradenko_2000
- Oct 5, 2010
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HELL SERPENT
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Lipstick Apathy
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gradenko, does the media in the phillipines also do the thing where they put american reactions on a higher plane than local reactions?
it's a bit cleverer than that - what usually happens is that American positions are laundered through local academics and pundits: you'll have someone commenting on the dangers of the "Chinese maritime militia swarming the West Philippine Sea" and he's a lecturer from a local university but he was educated in Virginia and he's reading off satellite photos releases by CSIS
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Apr 27, 2024 11:45
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- Zohar
- Jul 14, 2013
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Good kitty
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It is kind of a shame because there is plenty going on that is interesting both in the US and globally, but the thread is pretty chaotic, jammed with "big" personalities.
The UK/London is having somewhat of similar issue. The Elizabeth line did extend the range of the London metro but the HSR 2 was suppose to link housing in the north to London and it has already been so butchered it is somewhat pointless. I wouldn't be surprised if rents only climbed upwards.
Was looking for a place to rent in london (lol) last year and the main effect of the Elizabeth line was just to push up prices in the suburbs it touches to near city centre levels afaict
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Apr 27, 2024 11:50
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- Ardennes
- May 12, 2002
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Was looking for a place to rent in london (lol) last year and the main effect of the Elizabeth line was just to push up prices in the suburbs it touches to near city centre levels afaict
That is pretty much what happens when you just build a single piece of infrastructure when London probably needs 3-4 of them at least to try to make a serious dent. The UK is unbalanced in a large part due to its infrastructure and punishing rail rates.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:58
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- stephenthinkpad
- Jan 2, 2020
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They should award Boing boing Marcos a Nobel Peace Prize.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:59
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- Josef bugman
- Nov 17, 2011
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Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)
This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
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Fixed that for ya bman (hope yer keeping well!)
Trying to cope as always, but going to hopefully have something approaching a career at some point.
Hope you are keeping well Barry!
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Apr 27, 2024 13:19
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- mawarannahr
- May 21, 2019
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Can't post for 18 hours!
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lol
China's communists once used Hong Kong to subvert a mainland government
www.rfa.org posted:
Beijing insisted Hong Kong pass stringent security legislation known as Article 23 due to fears that the city would be used as a base from which to bring down the government -- because that's exactly what the Chinese Communist Party used the city for.
Hong Kong passed the Safeguarding National Security Law on March 23 as a mandatory obligation under Article 23 of the city's Basic Law. It was billed by the government as a way to close “loopholes” in the already stringent 2020 National Security Law, which was imposed on the city by Beijing, ushering in a crackdown on dissent in the wake of the 2019 protest movement.
But its roots go much further back in history, according to a veteran journalist and a legal expert, to when the Chinese Communist Party was itself trying to overthrow the Chinese government led by the Kuomintang nationalists.
Secret documents recently declassified by the Chinese government reveal how the Chinese Communist Party used Hong Kong as a base from which to subvert the 1911 Republic of China regime founded by Sun Yat-sen after the fall of the Qing Dynasty.
Reading these documents, I found that the Chinese Communist Party turned Hong Kong into a base for propaganda, for United Front [outreach and influence] operations, organizational operations and mass mobilization.
The setting up of these various bases can be traced back to the 1930s, and were documented in a report made by Wu Youheng, then secretary of the Hong Kong municipal party committee, to the Central Committee.
The Chinese Communist Party really did turn Hong Kong into a base for subverting the central government and dividing China. This is a key reason why Beijing has always seen Hong Kong as a potential threat to its grip on power, due to its relative freedom and connectedness to the outside world.
From Hong Kong, Chinese communists raised funds to finance their campaigns, stored equipment and other reserves, and trained new cadres, according to party documents and other historical texts.
Supply and communication line
Hong Kong also formed part of a secret supply line that ran along the southeastern coast to Shanghai, then to the party's Central Revolutionary Base in the eastern province of Jiangxi, and people also moved along the route.
Through this secret communication line used to move supplies and arms, more than 200 important leading cadres of the Communist Party of China including Zhou Enlai and Liu Shaoqi were sent to Hong Kong for rest and recuperation.
This secret supply line was also an important channel for the communists to receive arms from the Soviet Union.
Even more importantly, the Chinese Communist Party took advantage of the relative freedom enjoyed by Hong Kong residents under British rule to set up a command center from which to run its entire military operation for the South China region in the city.
Even the first provincial party committee for Guangdong province was set up in Hong Kong, on Aug. 7, 1927.
By January 1939, the party had set up a southern branch of its Central Committee to direct political, military, mass struggle and other work throughout southern China, and held a major conference in the city's Wanchai district in 1947. The Wanchai Conference, where participants talked about waging guerrilla warfare against the Kuomintang regime, including a concept they termed "red separatism.”
The Chinese Communist Party has itself made full use of Hong Kong's freedoms to subvert the central government of the Republic of China and implement armed separatism to split the country.
It is precisely because of this historical experience that the party is very aware of Hong Kong's potential to overthrow a corrupt regime, and is very afraid that others will use their own tactics against them. This is the deep-seated reason why Beijing is afraid of Hong Kong.
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Apr 27, 2024 20:58
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- Hubbert
- Mar 25, 2007
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At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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that’s true. but you will be able to live there basically as long as you want without paying rent or a mortgage
Yeah, I always found that beyond the land lease, it's interesting to see that you don't have to pay property taxes for residential properties in China.
Dunno how well this bodes for municipal financing and future infrastructure maintenance, though.
Edit:
Things went well on the recent Blinken trip, I see.
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Apr 27, 2024 22:10
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- WhiskeyWhiskers
- Oct 14, 2013
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Can't post for 23 minutes!
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lol that 'Chinese agent' in the AfD had been an informant to the BfV about Chinese opposition groups in Germany since 2007 and as soon as Obama pivoted to Asia the Germans became hostile and roughed him up, but continued using him.
https://twitter.com/davidpgoldman/status/1783918472700842182?s=19
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Apr 27, 2024 22:57
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- mawarannahr
- May 21, 2019
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Can't post for 18 hours!
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Enough time for epic think pieces like this yesterday
Has Germany’s far-right AfD become a gateway for Chinese and Russian spies?
www.france24.com - Fri, 26 Apr 2024 posted:
…
## China lies in wait
China appears to be a new piece in the puzzle of the AfD's controversial foreign relations – and potentially even more problematic for Germany's intelligence services.
“If Russian interference is like a storm hitting Germany, China's is like global warming,” said Thomas Haldenwang, head of the German Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution in 2022.
But Ohlberg said reports of the party's ties to China were nothing new.
“China has been cultivating its links with Alternative für Deutschland since at least 2019,” she said.
Back in 2023, news website t-online published a lengthy investigation into the ‘China-gate’ affair surrounding Krah, shedding some light on how Beijing operates. Krah had studied in China and was invited to Shanghai by the Chinese authorities in 2019.
“The Chinese will first try to influence their targets by inviting them to their homes or to meetings in neutral territory, but rarely in the country of origin,” intelligence expert Erich Schmidt-Eenboom told t-online.
Krah then became a great defender of the Chinese point of view, saying that accusations of Chinese abuses against the country's Uyghur Muslim minority are “fables to frighten people”. He also maintains that Taiwan is part of China, as is Tibet.
## A symptom of a larger problem
“The aims of Chinese political interference operations are to gather information about the target country's views on China, and then to influence the way in which China is perceived,” Ohlberg said.
But the AfD is not the only target of Chinese operations.
“In fact, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) targets all the parties that count in a country and, in Germany, it has had even more success with the traditional parties” like the CDU, the SPD and the FDP liberals, Shekhovtsov said.
“The CCP does things differently with the traditional parties in Germany," Ohlberg added. "It tries to influence the major economic players, who then pass on the right message to their elected representatives.”
With the AfD, the modus operandi “seems to resemble more classic espionage cases with the recruitment of agents”, she said, adding that Beijing may be doing the same with the other parties, but that this has not yet been discovered.
For Ohlberg, the AfD nevertheless represents potentially more fertile ground than other parties. Chinese interference is “increasingly taking the form of operations aimed at demonstrating the weaknesses of Western democracy, and this is the kind of rhetoric that an AfD politician is more likely to repeat”, she noted.
The growing number of foreign interference scandals – Russian and Chinese – involving the AfD points to a growing "security problem" in Germany. But for Ohlberg, the far-right party is merely a symptom.
“The security risk stems above all from a ‘very 1990s’ attitude to foreign threats that persists in Germany. In other words, there is still the impression that the Cold War has just ended and that we can concentrate on economic development without worrying too much about foreign spies", she said.
The cases involving the AfD – much like the arrest on Monday of three Germans accused of carrying out industrial espionage for China – have been a wake-up call to the country. It's been a rude awakening.
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Apr 27, 2024 23:09
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- Stairmaster
- Jun 8, 2012
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I thought the chinese communist party wasn't really a thing until the 20s when the warlord period had already started?
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Apr 27, 2024 23:20
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- genericnick
- Dec 26, 2012
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Weird how literally everyone who does spy stuff or terrorism in Germany turns out to be an informant of the Verfassungsschutz.
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Apr 27, 2024 23:45
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- KomradeX
- Oct 29, 2011
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I like the emphasis on "I don't own the land" about an apartment.
The funny thing is, isnt that exactly what happens in England you migbt own your house but the land is.still technically owned by a literal lord
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Apr 28, 2024 00:38
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- Danann
- Aug 4, 2013
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https://twitter.com/GlennLuk/status/1782747414480232596
very big brains in the chips act: build chips in us and ship them back to taiwan and then ship them to the us
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Apr 28, 2024 02:28
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 9, 2024 22:13
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Apr 27, 2024 06:58
