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May 5, 2024 19:39
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soviet elsa posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pis3veqKl8k
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May 6, 2024 12:58
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Well chosen https://twitter.com/elijahwood/status/1787238539417039298 Fantastic color composition in that shot imo zoux fucked around with this message at 14:16 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 14:12
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Still wild to me how the cast of the movies all bonded so tight, and for the long haul. Always makes me think of the phrase "fast friends" which I hear a lot from people who think it means "making friends quickly", but no, it means firmly.
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May 6, 2024 14:36
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Data Graham posted:Still wild to me how the cast of the movies all bonded so tight, and for the long haul. it was a unique filming experience wherein actors from around the world all were in a relatively isolated corner of it for an extended period. Filming all 3 at once meant that a chunk of the fellowship quite literally did spend a whole bunch of time together just in New Zealand, and then you factor in 3 separate press junkets, premiers, interviews etc. Compared to most movies, even ones like Star Wars of similar length and scope and media attention, that is pretty unique in hollywood. I know the movies can be controversial ITT but I'm stoked as gently caress for the extended versions in theaters this year. Bernard Hill was loving fantastic and I literally will never see Theoden as anyone else now. Some of the others I still see the character how my own imagination constructed them, but he is Theoden. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEYcTyj1Do
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May 6, 2024 15:53
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WoodrowSkillson posted:it was a unique filming experience wherein actors from around the world all were in a relatively isolated corner of it for an extended period. Filming all 3 at once meant that a chunk of the fellowship quite literally did spend a whole bunch of time together just in New Zealand, and then you factor in 3 separate press junkets, premiers, interviews etc. Compared to most movies, even ones like Star Wars of similar length and scope and media attention, that is pretty unique in hollywood. I like the movies, but I have a mental divide for most characters for Book and Movie versions. Bernard Hill as Theoden is one of, if not the, character who feels like he stepped right off the page.
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May 6, 2024 17:11
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WoodrowSkillson posted:
Only in this thread could some of the most beloved movies of all times be considered "a little controversial"-
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May 6, 2024 19:24
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soviet elsa posted:I like the movies, but I have a mental divide for most characters for Book and Movie versions. Bernard Hill as Theoden is one of, if not the, character who feels like he stepped right off the page. It's probably Théoden and Gandalf for me. Both actors really nailed those roles and own them in my mind.
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May 6, 2024 20:17
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Hard to overstate how good McKellan was as Gandalf. Two of my favorite moments in the trilogy are unspoken acting on his part: the shift from utter relief to wire-taut apprehension when Frodo says "...wait" and the mix of admiration, sorrow, and sympathy on his face when Frodo announces he will bear the ring to Mt Doom.
zoux fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 20:22
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reading Unfinished Tales right now, it's great. some really good writing in there
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May 6, 2024 20:42
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zoux posted:Hard to overstate how good McKellan was as Gandalf. Two of my favorite moments in the trilogy are unspoken acting on his part: the shift from utter relief to wire-taut apprehension when Frodo says "...wait" and the mix of admiration, sorrow, and sympathy on his face when Frodo announces he will bear the ring to Mt Doom. I've been catching up on the Exploring Lord of the Rings podcast and just got to this point in the Council of Elrond, and Corey Olsen went on a somewhat long diatribe about how he loves the moment and how it shows McKellan's Gandalf has such compassion for Frodo &c, but it's at odds with the book because Frodo standing forth like that is the culmination of a lot of hard work and scheming on Gandalf's part and no way would he be sad... And then not five minutes later he makes an explicit reference to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane and how Frodo's internal feelings reflect that the Ring quest is something that he knew was the right thing and that he's really known that it would be his task from the start, so he's doing it even though he dreads the certain consequences... And I'm drat near banging on my steering wheel going "SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING! SOMEBODY MAKE THE CONNECTION!" Man, I'll be glad to get to the end of the CoE run of episodes.
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May 6, 2024 21:03
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I've been catching up on the Exploring Lord of the Rings podcast and just got to this point in the Council of Elrond, and Corey Olsen went on a somewhat long diatribe about how he loves the moment and how it shows McKellan's Gandalf has such compassion for Frodo &c, but it's at odds with the book because Frodo standing forth like that is the culmination of a lot of hard work and scheming on Gandalf's part and no way would he be sad... It's hilarious how often this happens lol I'm at the Gates of Moria now (probably like a year's worth of episodes ahead of you lmao) and even though he'll spend like eight consecutive hours on a single paragraph, the whole group will still somehow miss some (to me) incredibly obvious things. Like he spent about an entire hour talking about the name "Moria" and speculating about why Celebrimbor would write the name "Black Pit" on the friendship gates to the Dwarves' pride and joy kingdom. He kept iterating through all these far-flung theories about how maybe it was sarcastic, or a joke or a term of endearment, or maybe it was a name the Elves used internally but never told the Dwarves, etc etc etc, and I'm sitting here thinking, hey! Is it not possible that the name "Moria" had long since ceased to be a meaningful name that people would translate literally, in their heads, as they heard it? How many names do we hear on a daily basis where we never even connect them to their obvious meanings/etymology which are within a hair of our understanding if we just think about it for half a second but really we very seldom do? How many people do you know with names like "Leadbeater" or "Mueller" where it's simply never occurred to them, never mind anyone around them, that "whoa lol you mean like LEAD BEATER? Like a metalworker?? Haha crazy" Surely "Moria" by that point has become just a name that nobody even trips over, even if it could be thought of as an unflattering epithet deep in its etymology, and even the Dwarves would use it freely and just never think twice about whether it might be an insult? "I'm American, our names don't mean poo poo" yeah right, you've never cracked a book to see what "Butch" "Coolidge" might mean? Gimme a break Also for all the time he spent on the first view they get of Caradhras in the red sunset light, somehow nobody even brought up how Sam asking if it's Mount Doom is a near-carbon-copy of Bilbo's reaction to it or a similar nearby mountain in The Hobbit. "Is that... THE Mountain?" it cracks me up how no matter how slow you go there are still huge things you can completely miss (And my steering wheel has undergone similar punishment) Data Graham fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 21:17
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Iirc his conclusion on Moria was it was a name from before Tolkien brought the whole legendarium in and was “a mistake” . The door would never in 100000 years say “Moria”. For your idea that people forgot what it means, idk . These are immortal beings .
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May 6, 2024 21:20
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Tell that to the residents of Rat Penis, New Jersey
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May 6, 2024 21:21
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euphronius posted:Iirc his conclusion on Moria was it was a name from before Tolkien brought the whole legendarium in and was “a mistake” . The door would never in 100000 years say “Moria”. Sure but he could have brought up that possibility!
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May 6, 2024 21:21
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The name Moria is first used by dwarves (in The Hobbit) so I don’t think any argument that “dwarves wouldn’t use it” will stand. A better argument which is made by Rateliff’s “History of the Hobbit” is that it’s not entirely clear that Moria was originally meant to be a dwarven city. All the mentions of it in The Hobbit are clear that it was a mine where the dwarves and goblins fought a big battle, but there is no mention that it is also Khazaddum, capital and holy place of the house of Durin. That all comes in with LOTR. Moria in the 1930s could have been envisioned as a goblin settlement or anything at all. The real origin of the name is that Tolkien liked the sound of the fairytale destination of Soria Moria (which is like a castle inhabited by rear end in a top hat trolls) and felt it agreed well with his pre-existing elvish word for dark.
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May 6, 2024 21:40
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Well yeah, and he brought that up, in that the -ia word for "abyss" feels so obviously like an awkward retcon that he was clearly trying to fit his preexisting name into a more "LotR-ish" framework. But what he and the group are doing is trying to think of an in-universe justification for why they would use that name in that context, with the history as given and the name with its meaning as explained in his appendices. With that framework in place it feels like the only explanation (to Olsen) for it appearing on the doors is a mistake by Tolkien, an oversight during revisions that he should have caught and corrected. But to me it seems like "names losing meaning over time" is as plausible an explanation as any, with the caveat that Tolkien being Tolkien would probably recoil from the idea of anybody being so linguistically incurious
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May 6, 2024 22:08
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Yes but the “mistake” is having it in the elf side of the door written in sindarin by Kelebrimbor. He “should” have used Khazad-dûm or whatever non disparaging name they were using in Hollin at the time
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May 6, 2024 22:10
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I think it’s a “mistake” but Tolkien consciously left it in becuase the sound of the name Moria is so good (as has been mentioned above).
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May 6, 2024 22:11
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Isn't it literally a black pit tho?
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May 6, 2024 22:12
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Not when the Dwarves lived there
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May 6, 2024 22:13
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euphronius posted:I think it’s a “mistake” but Tolkien consciously left it in becuase the sound of the name Moria is so good (as has been mentioned above). That sounds most likely to me. Names are weird. I doubt the place Tolkien lived had oxen or a ford!
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May 6, 2024 22:21
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euphronius posted:Not when the Dwarves lived there I mean, there still is a black pit. Gandalf falls in it. I don’t think that even in the heyday of Khazad dum they lit that up
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May 6, 2024 22:30
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Tree Bucket posted:That sounds most likely to me. Not lately anyway e: might have been some at the Bosporus though Data Graham fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 22:51
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Alhazred posted:Only in this thread could some of the most beloved movies of all times be considered "a little controversial"- I don't think they are, I don't recall ever seening a true hater in here, and they do exist. We don't all enjoy them for the same reasons or with the same level of emotion, but that's hardly controversial
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May 7, 2024 04:04
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I don't think they're controversial overall, but there's definitely controversial aspects of them even aside from complaints like "it's not how I pictured it". Changing Faramir's character, Frodo sending Sam home on the way up to Cirith Ungol, Aragorn tongue-kissing his horse, Arwen replacing Glorfindel at the Ford of Bruinen, some of the later dialogue like "axe in his nervous system" etc. A lot of these are adaptation choices which I'm generally fine with, but I can understand why people dislike them. People quibble about Denethor's portrayal, but personally think it's pretty accurate of a stern & proud old parent who's been brain poisoned by The performances are all sensational (seriously, is there a bad performance in all three movies?), the score is brilliant, the visual design and costuming are perfect, and honestly the VFX mostly holds up even 20 years later. And compared to the LOTR slop that came later (the Hobbit trilogy and Rings of Power), it's hard to understate how good the films actually are. Are they perfect? No, of course not. Are they the best we're ever going to get? Most definitely.
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May 7, 2024 05:18
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skasion posted:The real origin of the name is that Tolkien liked the sound of the fairytale destination of Soria Moria (which is like a castle inhabited by rear end in a top hat trolls) and felt it agreed well with his pre-existing elvish word for dark. Any excuse to post this painting: 
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May 7, 2024 06:07
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I have my complaints with the movies but they're pretty solid for the most part. I like the books a lot more personally but I'm sure that's true for most people who grew up with the books and then saw the movies.
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May 7, 2024 07:24
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webmeister posted:I don't think they're controversial overall, but there's definitely controversial aspects of them even aside from complaints like "it's not how I pictured it". Changing Faramir's character, Frodo sending Sam home on the way up to Cirith Ungol, Aragorn tongue-kissing his horse, Arwen replacing Glorfindel at the Ford of Bruinen, some of the later dialogue like "axe in his nervous system" etc. A lot of these are adaptation choices which I'm generally fine with, but I can understand why people dislike them. People quibble about Denethor's portrayal, but personally think it's pretty accurate of a stern & proud old parent who's been brain poisoned by All these complaints and not mentioning missing Tom Bombadil? For shame. For shame!
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May 7, 2024 07:27
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Issaries posted:All these complaints and not mentioning missing Tom Bombadil? Sshhhh! He'll hear you!
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May 7, 2024 07:33
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Issaries posted:All these complaints and not mentioning
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May 7, 2024 15:20
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Yeah, ITT there have been a few posters with pretty hardline opinions against the movies, the msot notable in my head was the complaint that it was "too much like video games" and "just washed out browns and blues" for the entire triology. i was just trying not to restart anything like that. i'll gladly gush about them forever and am stoked as hell to see the extended editions in the theaters next month. webmeister posted:The performances are all sensational (seriously, is there a bad performance in all three movies?), the score is brilliant, the visual design and costuming are perfect, and honestly the VFX mostly holds up even 20 years later. Yeah, as RoP has shown, without the dedication Jackson and Co showed, this can fall apart fast. To keep with Bernard Hill and his portrayal as Theoden, one of the things he personally commented on was his armor and how kingly it made him feel. The level of detail on his armor is insane by hollywood standards, and it directly helped his performance. The entire thing is covered in engravings and embroidery and stamped designs on the leather. There are jewels embedded in it, and the entire thing just looks like what a king would wear. The fact that there is further decoration inside the armor that only Hill and the people helping him would see is something so few movies would ever do, and he specifically mentioned that detail as one that made it easy to imagine himself as a king. To me that's huge, and its smart given that in the movies, Theoden is one of the most archetypical "high fantasy" characters, who has some of the most dramatic lines like "So, it is before the walls of Minas Tirith, the doom of our time will be decided." and Hill pulls it off perfectly and it sets him apart from other noble characters like Gimli or Legolas who do not really care much about their title or status, whereas Theoden is through and through a King and carries himself as such. A whole bunch of gifs here https://tolkiensource.tumblr.com/post/726131031026089984  
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May 7, 2024 15:51
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Is that when he first looks at pellanor field.
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May 7, 2024 15:53
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Remind me: the original DEAAATTHHHH charge speech in the books was made by Eomer, and it was in response to Theodin's death, right?
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May 7, 2024 15:55
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Yes And (seemingly) Eowyns death
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May 7, 2024 15:57
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I think the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy is the best film adaption of Lord of the Rings yet.
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May 7, 2024 15:57
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It's specifically seeing Eowyn's presumed corpse that instigates his fatalistic charge edit: dammit you beat me to it euphronius
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May 7, 2024 15:59
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euphronius posted:Yes Yeah see, one of the problems I've always had with the movies (which i love) is that that speech coming out of Theodin doesn't really make sense. It's a banger of a speech, unforgettably delivered, but Eomer's version was out of despair and grief, and Theodin's is supposed to be uplifting?
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May 7, 2024 16:00
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It’s not uplifting like a hallmark card or whatever . It’s prechristian HERO stuff that motivates our latent(?) death drives Like a crazed Turin going bonkers in the marches of Doriath Edit Specially theoden/Eomer are overtaken by a “fey mode” which Tolkien loves . Fey in this sense meaning “ready to die”. Disregard or acceptance of death is very powerful euphronius fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 16:01
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 00:41 |
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I'm going to do a rewatch of the movies soon. I had complaints at the time of release, but I think I was 16 when casting was announced. I didn't like the Arwen stuff because I disliked Liv Tyler specifically (she was in too much stuff then and it had what we now call nepo baby vibes) and liked Glorfindel a lot, but I had no problem with Arwen having an expanded role in concept or even getting more diversity in the cast generally. Merry and Pippin, and Gimli, were a bit too silly for my tastes. My own version of Gimli was (is) as a grim, hard personality whose ways of expressing love and friendship become more legible to those around him as they become closer. But I also liked John Rhys Davies so I also didn't really like the elf armor/weapon design or their addition at Helm's deep. I now dislike the blue lighting. All of these gripes were consciously at nit pick intensity then and now. The Shire and Gandalf were basically my imagination put on screen.
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May 7, 2024 16:06
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