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Elephant Ambush posted:I really hate being nagged about employee surveys. I fill them out but I also make sure to complain to my manager about them and tell him that nothing I put in there is going to happen so they're basically useless Like four jobs ago the overall bonus pot for the call centre I worked in was determined in part by employee satisfaction survey results. We were not allowed to tell the staff this (obviously) but we inexplicably WERE allowed to make completing the survey a half day event with pizza laid on.
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May 9, 2024 16:18
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We all know what pizza means, so it's nice to see that management are at least consistently clueless.
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May 9, 2024 16:21
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Eric the Mauve posted:"That's interesting. My lawyer has a different opinion of that as per FMLA." Yep, and a friend of mine who is a director was saying that they can make broad messages, not run down every possible person to get the box checked. quote:No seriously, that's just executives being who they are. If you're minded to jump ship then by all means jump ship, it'll probably be a positive change, but there will just be more executives wherever you go. True, and this is the first massive place I’ve worked at, but it does seem particular to this team. There’s already been a ton of friction (mostly from me being in one office and everyone else in another, making it the worst hybrid experience) but this: Boris Galerkin posted:Yikes your team lead also overstepped in passing around your phone number as well. This part pisses me off the most. No one was being the umbrella to cover for me. They have kids too, so they should know better! If they can’t protect my leave, I have no trust in them for any real matter.
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May 9, 2024 16:54
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Fil5000 posted:Like four jobs ago the overall bonus pot for the call centre I worked in was determined in part by employee satisfaction survey results. We were not allowed to tell the staff this (obviously) but we inexplicably WERE allowed to make completing the survey a half day event with pizza laid on. Could be this, or maybe it's just *his* bonus is tied to that stupid loving survey getting over x% completion. Or more likely since he's new, it's just being an eager beaver and trying to show off the one thing he can point to when they have their little meeting.
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May 9, 2024 17:03
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Baddog posted:Could be this, or maybe it's just *his* bonus is tied to that stupid loving survey getting over x% completion. Getting that little box green at the daily management meeting is the only real work left he can do so he's by god going to do it
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May 9, 2024 17:07
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"real work"
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May 9, 2024 17:11
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If it don't got metrics it ain't real, obviously.
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May 9, 2024 17:18
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We're firing someone next week and we have literally no idea what the practicalities of this are because HR haven't told us and both me and the other manager involved haven't actually done the process before, plus we're all in different locations. I guess we just say "please log off and don't steal anything thanks".
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May 9, 2024 19:00
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Typically it's less "please log off" and more they discover they can't log on, and then get invited to a call with you and an HR rep. Or else their access is removed during said call.
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May 9, 2024 19:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:Typically it's less "please log off" and more they discover they can't log on, and then get invited to a call with you and an HR rep. Or else their access is removed during said call. The latter is the way to go IMO.
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May 9, 2024 19:11
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Skip-chat reminds me of the story of the only time I've ever done it. A decade ago I worked at this place where my middle manager was a nightmare to work with. The depth of her incompetence was only matched by the height of her sociopathy. She was a profoundly unpleasant person to work under. Therefore perfect middle management material, naturally, where she could oversee ten or so intelligent, motivated, mid-career, well-educated professionals. Anyway, one day she decided it was a good idea to ban us from using a basic industry tool. Think, like, banning the ten accountants in your office from using Excel. Or banning lumberjacks from using chainsaws. Or banning your delivery people from using gasoline. The tool that defines the profession, that we get degrees to learn how to use, she bans. The reason she did this is because one of her reports had the temerity to use the tool to come to a conclusion that she - after less than a second of thought - disagreed with. In announcing this ban, her exact words were "you will present what I tell you to present, and say what I tell you to say" therefore we didn't need to use the tool! I think I will go to my grave remembering when she said that, and how shocked her audience was. Well gently caress that, so I set a meeting with her boss the next day at 3, and anticipatorily set a meeting with the three of us at 3:30. I used the most corporate nicey-nice speak I could manage but my basic message was "this is not only a horrible idea, it's terribly insulting, and it'll tank us if you let this go through." Her boss hemmed and hawed and gave some milquetoast "everyone should get along" type of speech, without actually reversing her insane decision. I think the boss just hoped we would all ignore it but was too much of a pansy to make that decision. My manager apparently took this as a declaration of war, and made my life absolutely miserable after that. Just pure sociopathic degradation for having the uppityness to disagree with her. Luckily I had my resume polished and ready to go and was out of there pretty quick after that. This is the same lady who banned us from fixing typos in a public-facing powerpoint because fixing her typos counted as disagreeing with her and sabotaging the department. The attorneys in the thread will know how insane banning Westlaw in a litigation office is, and being told we weren't allowed to research our own pleadings, but that's what she did lol. BigHead fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 9, 2024 |
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May 9, 2024 19:11
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Boris Galerkin posted:I 100% agree with this though. By telling management you'll do the job yourselves you're just telling them that you don't need the cleaning union. If their work was important then you should stop your work to show management how much the strike is costing them to get them to give in to demands. While I agree in theory, the unfortunate reality is... (Also, look below for the structure of this dispute; it's a bit odd.) 1) Phase I clinical manufacturing isn't going to stop over a janitorial dispute. Our corporate overlords both locally and in Switzerland would burn us all at the stake, literally, before they'd accept the potential billions in losses from losing first-to-market advantage, etc, especially with how weird this dispute was in terms of structure. 2) Engineers, scientists and technicians are non-union here. 3) Solidarity strikes are broadly illegal in both the USA and in California where we're based. I can't ask non-union techs in a state as expensive as California to put their own paychecks and health insurance on the line for an action that would be clearly (and legally) considered for-cause termination, especially when I know our overlords would absolutely take action against them. I make enough to bide my time and find a replacement job. They do not, and there's no backstop for them. General structure of the labor dispute: SEIU janitorial contract time has come around again. They represent a large share of janitorial work in the state, across public and private sector. Our janitorial crews are all outsourced to a third party, are unionized in SEIU, but this third party company is considered too small and doesn't get a seat at negotiation table with SEIU. The larger companies like ABM and SBM are at the table with SEIU, and our provider just takes it or leaves it, basically. My company itself is a customer. So, even leaning on our janitorial service provider doesn't have any benefit, because they've already said they'll accept the new contract regardless of the outcome. The new contract had to be negotiated with other larger firms, who we don't even work with, and then the janitorial crew would go on strike or not based on the outcome with those firms. In theory, the strike would've been because a company we don't even use didn't agree to terms we were totally okay with, and where the company we do use was okay with them too. I mean yeah, that's worker action for ya and all, but there's basically no way for me to tell my non-union workers to support it without getting them all hosed by local management. Sundae fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 9, 2024 |
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May 9, 2024 19:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:Typically it's less "please log off" and more they discover they can't log on, and then get invited to a call with you and an HR rep. Or else their access is removed during said call. The last one is what I would assume but I'm not taking it for granted given what HR are usually like. Case in point: nobody from HR turned up or told me anything when I joined, not even a link to click to tell me stuff. It would be easiest if they came into the office and got quietly diverted at the entrance but one of the contributing reasons is that they weren't actually turning up so that might not work.
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May 9, 2024 20:09
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Sundae posted:SEIU got their contract, so no janitorial strike. Woohoo. If you’re doing science in a lab and are bothered by the idea of cleaning a lab you can get hosed (sorry for your loss Sundae, hopefully they weren’t on your good list.)
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May 9, 2024 20:15
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BigHead posted:
I want some deetz cause that is  Were you a paralegal or an associate in this situation? You guys had Lexis or CaseText, right? Otherwise wtf are you citing, some other firm's blog you googled? And whats there to disagree with, a judge's opinion?I coulda kinda see the managing paralegal going "I was told by [Partner] to cut $5k/month and don't want to fire people someone so we're canceling some paralegals westlaw subscriptions", but if you were the associate thats unthinkable. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 9, 2024 |
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May 9, 2024 22:02
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Motronic posted:Your boss is a micromanager. If there is no reason for them to not trust you and your abilities that's just the kind of person they are and there is no cure for it. Oh yeah they are for sure. Solid 10% of my job is managing the interim panic associated with their near-random needling. "No we haven't built the roof, we are pouring the foundation right now. Yes that is normal. Happy to consider roof-first construction theory another time just put it in my goals." They're really really nice at least, and otherwise pleasant to be around. My skip has had to come have 1:1's with all my bosses reports because they finally realized something seems to be getting lost in communication, the beatings have continued, morale has not improved. I'd blame my leader alone but I've independently verified the skips... penchant for inaction? Alongside a general dysfunction in this business unit they've inherited. Its been so bad that I successfully lobbied for approval to transfer internally before 1 yr. Hoping to have that done before summer is up. Not too worried about any political fallout, everyone I've discussed it with starts with "yeah, I've heard things are rough over there." By a crazy coincidence, so they swear, I just received an off-cycle raise for the first time ever. Nothing earth shattering, but I'm honestly impressed - I know how hard it is to make something like that happen here.
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May 9, 2024 22:56
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Sundae posted:3) Solidarity strikes are broadly illegal in both the USA and in California where we're based.
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May 9, 2024 23:36
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Arquinsiel posted:If I am understanding your situation correctly, they wouldn't be striking, they would be refusing to take on additional duties not normally within the realm of their employment. Playing dumb hard enough might pay dividends there. My suspicion is that they would get fired for insubordination and quickly replaced since plenty of newly minted scientists would jump on the chance to make pharma bux
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May 10, 2024 01:34
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Arquinsiel posted:If I am understanding your situation correctly, they wouldn't be striking, they would be refusing to take on additional duties not normally within the realm of their employment. Playing dumb hard enough might pay dividends there. Ah, time to use the magical phrase "and other duties as necessary" then
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May 10, 2024 01:43
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Shrieking Muppet posted:My suspicion is that they would get fired for insubordination and quickly replaced since plenty of newly minted scientists would jump on the chance to make pharma bux quickly in a corporate environment? maybe 18 months from now after the hiring freeze ends
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May 10, 2024 01:58
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Volmarias posted:Ah, time to use the magical phrase "and other duties as necessary" then
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May 10, 2024 02:37
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Nybble posted:(Inappropriate personal number sharing/use) It's bad, but I don't think you're going to change them, or see much difference if you change jobs. Wait until the stress has subsided and you're getting more sleep, but it seems like it'd be easier to change phone numbers (even with associated info updates to various things that depend on it) than changing employment.
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May 10, 2024 03:04
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That lady just needs to learn the trick of corporate which is to nod to the inane request from management and somehow just never actually do the thing they asked. They probably didn’t need it anyway.
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May 10, 2024 03:24
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Arquinsiel posted:If I am understanding your situation correctly, they wouldn't be striking, they would be refusing to take on additional duties not normally within the realm of their employment. Playing dumb hard enough might pay dividends there. Yup. If I were to recommend sympathetic action, making up dumb reasons why you can't do it would be high on the list, but not as high as doing the unusual tasks cheerfully and completely incompetently, falling all intended outcomes while wasting large quantities of materials and exerting much and obvious effort in total good humor.
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May 10, 2024 03:59
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I hope this is the right place to ask this question! I was debating here or the programming forum but this role requires 0 programming sooo What's it like working as a Product Manager? I was formerly a Sales Engineer (GIS) at a start up before being laid off. The product was a mobile and cloud mapping solution. As is common in start ups, I wore many hats, and some of those involved writing process and product enhancements documents and reporting bugs to development and Q&A. One of my specific responsibilities was tracking and reporting client feedback in the form of "Jobs to be Done" (CTO loved that format). However, I was largely client-facing, responsible for assisting sales guys with technical explanations, RFPs and proposals, and demos. In addition, I was responsible for doing software and workflow implementation and training. I also ran the client sync meetings where sales had face time with dev as well as lots of sales things like QBRs and other bullshit. Previously, I've used different competing software alternatives before this role in various industry applications so I have a good feel for what the user needs to have and wants to see (and also what's impractical). Also, I understand that not all enhancements and bugs are created equal, and that temporary workarounds, keeping things in scope, following timelines, and prioritizing resources are a necessary part of development. The product I'd potentially manage is very similar to the one I was previously selling and supporting. Thanks for any input and advice.
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May 10, 2024 04:38
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CarForumPoster posted:I want some deetz cause that is Associate, no, I quit before I filed anything so who knows, the recommendations of subject matter experts. That place sucked.
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May 10, 2024 05:09
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If you think about it referencing precedent is basically plagiarism and your boss was teaching you a lesson about original thinking
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May 10, 2024 05:31
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3 DONG HORSE posted:I hope this is the right place to ask this question! I was debating here or the programming forum but this role requires 0 programming sooo I did something similar - jumped from the IT and design/programming (but with a side order of product ownership because my team was so small so I wore like, four hats) to I guess being more officially a product owner as part of being responsible for the wider strategy across platforms and being on the business side. So not a perfect example for you but: in some ways it's easier if you have the existing SME knowledge. If you were just being dropped into it then you'd have the problem of trying to learn the product based on what it does now, not what it should actually do. Depending on what state it's in this might be bad because you're basically learning it as the bad state being the norm. This is imo a common flaw in things like change functions where it's assumed that if you apply the principles you'll somehow magically be able to manage a product despite having zero prior knowledge of the area. That's not the case here though. What you will need though is to sit between the two sides and get the dev team to understand what they're doing and occasionally smack them into doing things differently, and then on the other side doing the "actually we can't do that" or "that's going to take X amount of time and here's why". It is a balancing act and you have to manage a roadmap and consider resourcing. Also you'll have to do budgets and project timelines. So, so, many PowerPoints. Most importantly: are they paying you more?
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May 10, 2024 10:10
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:I did something similar - jumped from the IT and design/programming (but with a side order of product ownership because my team was so small so I wore like, four hats) to I guess being more officially a product owner as part of being responsible for the wider strategy across platforms and being on the business side. So it sounds like it's not too huge of a leap from what I was doing before. Except instead of being the guy to say "I need X for client Y NOW." I get to say "NOPE, that's not feasible" lol. I was an analyst for years before getting into the dev/sales hybrid role so I absolutely have no problems doing PowerPoints and I was also directly involved in roadmapping with the CTO as I had the most facetime with both small and enterprise clients re: technical needs and issues (I also had to convey relevant bits back to the client without revealing the entire thing, to manage expectations). I do feel I'm a SME on the software and in the industry. Also, I actually used previous iterations of this particular product in the past - it's not a brand new one recently entering the market like the start up's but rather it's an existing legacy platform that could use some modernizing. quote:Most importantly: are they paying you more?  ).I feel a lot better about this opportunity. I didn't want to somehow get in and feel like I was a fish out of water, or that I hated it. This sounds right up my alley. Appreciate the response! I am extra motivated right now.  edit: removed bitching about an incompetent CEO lol, lmao 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 12:41 on May 10, 2024 |
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May 10, 2024 12:22
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3 DONG HORSE posted:So it sounds like it's not too huge of a leap from what I was doing before. Every company is different, of course, but when you listed what you were doing as a Sales Engineer, pretty much all of it is stuff that Product Managers do in my company, simply because they have the twin skillset of understanding technical aspects of the system, and the ability to talk and explain it to end users. So if your new company is at all like mine, and you are happy to wear many different hats, then the new place sounds very promising!
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May 10, 2024 12:53
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Yeah if you go right back to my first posts in this thread it's me angsting about moving from my previous role in IT to this one that doesn't involve delivering any actual code (though I have been doing a bunch of SQL, can't keep me out of the databases!), but I eventually realised that a) I was stuck in the role I was in, and in fact got passed over for promotion b) the "doing stuff" role essentially had a ceiling that if I wanted to get beyond I'd have to become a full on IT manager* and then wouldn't be doing anything anyway and finally c) I was offered 40% more out the gate with twice the target bonus. I just learned from a friend still there that there was little to no salary uplift there this year and bonuses were all flat. I did really like my coworkers and my boss though, which was the counter argument. *Not strictly true in my case but you get what I mean. And I would never have got promoted on that basis because "doing stuff" is not viewed as a director level responsibility.
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May 10, 2024 12:56
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12Apr1961 posted:Every company is different, of course, but when you listed what you were doing as a Sales Engineer, pretty much all of it is stuff that Product Managers do in my company, simply because they have the twin skillset of understanding technical aspects of the system, and the ability to talk and explain it to end users. Interesting! Honestly I like wearing multiple hats. It keeps things interesting. That's why I wanted to move away from being an analyst in the first place (also, while a safe and boring job to have, has limited opportunities for advancement). Powerful Two-Hander posted:Yeah if you go right back to my first posts in this thread it's me angsting about moving from my previous role in IT to this one that doesn't involve delivering any actual code (though I have been doing a bunch of SQL, can't keep me out of the databases!), but I eventually realised that a) I was stuck in the role I was in, and in fact got passed over for promotion b) the "doing stuff" role essentially had a ceiling that if I wanted to get beyond I'd have to become a full on IT manager* and then wouldn't be doing anything anyway and finally c) I was offered 40% more out the gate with twice the target bonus. Those are all great reasons to switch tracks. Sucks about your coworkers though. It's a shame when good people do good things and don't get rewarded for their efforts.
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May 10, 2024 13:30
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Interesting! Same. Fortunately I've ended up doing that where I am now (there are positives and negatives). quote:Those are all great reasons to switch tracks. Sucks about your coworkers though. It's a shame when good people do good things and don't get rewarded for their efforts. I moved literally across the road so have at least seen a couple of them once or twice. Need to pick that back up as it's been a while.
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May 10, 2024 13:39
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I don't work as a product manager, but as a UX person I work very closely with them. I did work as a product manager briefly early in my career, and it was a disaster I still sometimes have nightmares about. At my company it seems that they: develop and and track scope and release schedules, work with client SMEs to develop specific user stories, work with the design team (me) to visualize them, work with the dev team to manage work sprints, UAT sprints and releases. They also deal with client higher ups and in house higher ups on project strategy and big questions. This all includes the delicate balance of how much to say yes and how much to say no, and how to accurately relate product capabilities. You absolutely need to know the specific ins and outs of developing with our product to a very specific level. If you have a good product manager everything moves. If you have a bad one it can sink a program. At other places (like FAANG) product management can be responsible for entire features, but that's outside of my experience.
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May 10, 2024 18:11
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And if you're at a place like mine, "product manager" could mean product manager, or it could mean what everyone else calles a TPM because for some reason one of our execs dislikes the idea of TPMs so he has been placated by calling the few TPMs we have PMs and basically understaffing to the point that there is no ownership of large portions of highly important internal pipelines and tooling, and no one to drive projects that don't have customer facing features. This was a great plan when the goal was to minimize cost and pump revenue in order to market and sell the company. Now that it's been sold it's not clear why this same direction is being taken.
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May 10, 2024 18:17
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For us it's: Designing and proposing change (and asking for budget) and all that involved Regulatory governance of the product Leading the change (organising everyone and stakeholder management, being the person that sets standards and priorities and balances that against budgets) Customer research/insight Solving IT problems (blockages etc) Making 27 business areas work together Understanding what's working and what isn't and what we would like to do, and what we need to do across like operations, sales, governance etc If it's going wrong for whatever reason you need to be on it and fixing it
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May 10, 2024 18:22
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When I worked in a functional company being a PM was described as "You're the CEO of your products" with all that entails. Yes, budget, P&L, etc.
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May 10, 2024 18:36
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Love it when a thank you slide on an all hands has all your coworkers at the same level except you on it. Great feeling.
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May 10, 2024 20:48
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priznat posted:Love it when a thank you slide on an all hands has all your coworkers at the same level except you on it. Great feeling. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1cl9ycd/the_women_at_my_job_made_a_list_of_the_hottest/
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May 10, 2024 20:55
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Thanks for the additional input. This insight is very helpful. I tailored my resume and cover letter even more to the position than before since I now know what experience applies and what doesn't. Hopefully this leads to something good!
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May 10, 2024 21:17
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