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i dont understand the lust for extraction shooters by execs, and i say this as someone who has played enough Tarkov to kill most people. its just not a game type that can be scaled to a mass audience because core parts of what makes it an extraction shooter makes it alienating to a lot of people like is the average person gonna want to spend their few hours of leisure time a day crouching in a loving bush for 30 minutes only to be sniped at the very last possible second and lose everything they worked for the past five evenings? no lol. it's depressing and annoying even if you're mandatorially stuck indoors all day because of loving covid and all you've wasted is a few hours of an identical stream of boring days. you don't wanna spend your leisure time being a loser, and by their nature most extraction shooters most people in each round will end up being losers. theyre specifically popular on twitch because they create extreme highs and lows, like battle royales before them, which makes for good viewing but not such a good play experience. studio heads or execs or whatever are doing the equivalent of going to watch an underground game of russian roulette and going 'gee this sure draws a crowd, i bet everyone is gonna want to play russian roulette in their garage tonight!'. mcdonalds did not roll out the mcpigasshole after fear factor got big on TV. some stuff is as fun to play as it is to watch, some stuff moreso, other things drastically less im sure pig rear end in a top hat sales went up by a significant % after fear factor came out, just because of frat bros getting ideas probably, but that significant % was of a very small market. not everything is scalable. theres no world where extraction shooters are a mainstay of the populations gaming diet, unless its some kind of cruel futuristic junta where it determines your place in the evil hierarchy
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May 10, 2024 15:55
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juggalo baby coffin posted:its just not a game type that can be scaled to a mass audience because core parts of what makes it an extraction shooter makes it alienating to a lot of people
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May 10, 2024 16:24
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The Division has (had?) the Dark Zone, which I think people were into There's probably a way to make an extraction shooter that's fun to play even if the hardcore streamers will poo poo on it. In fact that's what I'm banking on for Marathon since supposedly hardcore streamers got to play an alpha version already and did poo poo on it
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May 10, 2024 16:32
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Speaking of Marathon: https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/1788955765710983655 (This is the same Aleph One-based Marathon that has been free for years, just now available through Steam)
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May 10, 2024 16:47
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Nice!
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May 10, 2024 16:53
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haveblue posted:(This is the same Aleph One-based Marathon that has been free for years, just now available through Steam)
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May 10, 2024 16:56
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The Kins posted:Looks like there's achievements, which is a nice little addition for those that care. There’s one for completing Colony Ship For Sale Cheap without grenading yourself. Lol
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May 10, 2024 17:53
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lol at the selaco keys joke on avp civvie
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May 10, 2024 22:00
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The only version of Marathon I play is M1A1 because it makes the platforms in CSFS automatically raise to the proper point automatically. 
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May 11, 2024 01:12
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I was gonna ask what an extraction shooter was, but hey, I'm on the internet, so I looked it up and I still don't know, which means I likely haven't played any of them. And jfc, they sound like absolutely no fun at all to me.
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May 11, 2024 01:37
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if there was a version of cod dmz that was pve only i would keep buying those $70 games
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May 11, 2024 01:38
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site posted:if there was a version of cod dmz that was pve only i would keep buying those $70 games How about a $250 version? https://www.polygon.com/24140541/escape-from-tarkov-the-unheard-edition-250
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May 11, 2024 01:44
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I was gonna ask what an extraction shooter was, but hey, I'm on the internet, so I looked it up and I still don't know, which means I likely haven't played any of them. And jfc, they sound like absolutely no fun at all to me. "So you remember Red Orchestra, right? Well imagine that, but every time you die someone snaps a folding chair over your back - wait let me finish - emotionally!" -a madman born of a jackal
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May 11, 2024 01:46
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haveblue posted:The Division has (had?) the Dark Zone, which I think people were into It worked in the first game because the areas were large enough with lots of ways to navigate around and avoid gankers. I spent hundreds of hours just doing the PVE in it. The dark zone in the sequel went through quite a few reworks mechanically but what's remained the same throughout were the much smaller zones that pushed everyone towards PVP. Anyway Ubisoft has been trying to do a standalone version that apes a lot more of Tarkov and it's been development hell for several years 
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May 11, 2024 01:55
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:The only version of Marathon I play is M1A1
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May 11, 2024 01:57
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DoombatINC posted:"So you remember Red Orchestra, right? Well imagine that, but every time you die someone snaps a folding chair over your back - wait let me finish - emotionally!" I don't know what any of this means. Anyway, I love Selaco.
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May 11, 2024 05:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6G81Iy4cVA It might be way too late to ask since I first played Aleph One like 20 years ago, but... Why does actual Marathon 1 look so much smoother than Aleph One? 
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May 11, 2024 07:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ You know what, I'm just gonna say it: I think these various "just add raytracing" things look bad when you're done marveling at how technically impressive the new lighting is. They just completely ruin the tone of a lot of these old games and remind me of those dumb "4KHD 3D Models Texture Filtering" Doom mods. Now I'm obviously not saying raytracing is an overall negative, I think it can look good in newer games custom designed around it, but this ain't it.
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May 11, 2024 08:20
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Mordja posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ  The most generous thing I can say about these vids is they're decent tech demos, not examples of how an entire game should look. Once the tech/hardware is mature enough it's gonna be pretty great to see a game designed to use it more realistically.
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May 11, 2024 10:32
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Mordja posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ It can work, but it requires an asset and lighting overhaul to bring the visual presentation more in line with the intent of the original game, as you said you can't "just add raytracing". The Quake and Quake 2 remasters are examples of it done right, they're not RT but they did get completely relit with added dynamic lightmaps and volumetrics. Regardless, they still look faithful. There's parts of that video that look alright, the grab they did for the thumbnail looks like poo poo though.
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May 11, 2024 11:31
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Mordja posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ 
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May 11, 2024 11:48
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Mordja posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ I think most of it comes down to the fact that they've just thrown PBR lighting in there, but haven't actually tweaked any of the maps to suit. No normals and a lack of glossmaps (But still having highlights) just makes everything look like linoleum.
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May 11, 2024 12:18
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The Kins posted:Chronicles of Riddick original version vs. remaster lookin' rear end I don't completely hate the way the remaster looks, it's very wet but that kinda works, they just cranked all the dials for the specular, contrast and bloom too high. If they were to do a remaster (of the remaster) reaching a compromise between the two would be nice.
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May 11, 2024 12:24
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I really liked how the riddick remaster looked 😖
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May 11, 2024 12:30
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https://x.com/VinciusMedeiro6/status/1788996516092252393
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May 11, 2024 14:57
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big wet remaster
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May 11, 2024 15:05
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Marathon 2 and Marathon Infinity now have Steam pages. One neat thing from the replies to that thread: Eat The Path, a plugin that attempts to recreate the Quake 2 Remaster's compass functionality. A little wonky, but very welcome.
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May 11, 2024 16:19
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Mordja posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23Y0fOCRGQ Some good context in the comments. anchorlightforge posted:Hey all, this video really needs some context. I'm not really sure why it's being advertised so early because-- as the video demonstrates-- Echelon is sure impressive but not really showcase-ready yet. I love seeing raytracing stuff but I also don't get why they're advertising this lol. It shows that it now works in UE1, but this is like the equivalent of hitting an on switch with RT lighting. Nothing else was changed, this isn't an impressive showcase at all
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May 11, 2024 16:48
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Yeah we know it looks like poo poo when you don’t put the work in to remaster every mesh and texture lmao
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May 11, 2024 16:50
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ray tracing is resource consuming garbage that leads to more soulless art, as the lighting is taken out of the hands of artists and put into the hands of engineers give me baked in lighting any day
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May 11, 2024 18:05
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Baked lighting is also raytraced, just not fast enough for real-time interaction And it's not really fair to say engineering vs art is a tradeoff. Engineers make tools and artists use them, they're different skill sets. Making the tools more powerful and intuitive and more likely to deliver what's wanted on the first try doesn't mean what the artists do with them is now less important. And it certainly doesn't mean the engineers can now do what the artists do by themselves If the game looks like rear end it's the fault of whoever decided to cut back on artists
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May 11, 2024 18:14
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Automata 10 Pack posted:ray tracing is resource consuming garbage that leads to more soulless art, as the lighting is taken out of the hands of artists and put into the hands of engineers
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May 11, 2024 18:28
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i can't even figure out that take, is the assumption here that the engine programmers would be the ones placing lights in the levels instead of the level designers?
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May 11, 2024 18:40
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It's also the other way around, real time ray tracing provides more artistic control by removing all the limitations that baked lighting has, like needing to strategically avoid baked shadows on moving geometry. It requires less technical or engineering knowledge of game engines, not more.
SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 18:50
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having spent hours just driving around night city, it's a deranged take
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May 11, 2024 19:39
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I don't necessarily mind seeing raytracing applied to older games, but I find it tend to fall into three camps where either it looks garish and bad, pretty good, or most damningly looks pretty much just like it did originally. I keep looking but never find it, but I feel like Left 4 Dead could look good raytraced, especially if you can get fires to cast lights.
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May 11, 2024 19:44
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Automata 10 Pack posted:ray tracing is resource consuming garbage that leads to more soulless art, as the lighting is taken out of the hands of artists and put into the hands of engineers The artist hand is still there, choosing the number, type and location of the lightning elements...
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May 11, 2024 19:50
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Volte posted:This is an insanely dumb take unless you consider lighting directors on films soulless engineers  Soul  Soulless
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May 11, 2024 20:01
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I like the look of RT64, the shadows are low res enough that it doesn't seem out of place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywWwUuWRgsM&t=518s I also remember seeing a tweet awhile ago by someone making a lighting system with Quake, but it was made to look just like the baked lighting except it would update in real time when brushes moved. Can't find it anymore though, it's lost in a sea of Q2 RTX posts
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May 11, 2024 20:07
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Hogama posted:
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May 11, 2024 20:09
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