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You touched on it with the chrono boost but one of the reasons the prologue is a bit weird, gameplay wise, is that it's built on the HotS version of the protoss, since the LotV changes weren't ready when they were making it.
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May 11, 2024 08:44
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If only there was some other, not-kerrigan zerg to be in charge of em here. If only.
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May 11, 2024 09:53
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This feels like it was written for WOL Kerrigan. I mean, didn't we just had a moment where she went "okay, I'll try and not kill civilians on my way"?
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May 11, 2024 10:50
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Sure, but since she was so nice about it, now she can have little a massacre, as a treat.
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May 11, 2024 10:55
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Just to draw attention to a detail in the commentary, Void came out five years after Wings. Five years is a game console generation. If you were a Protoss main you had to wait that long for your campaign. All that time and the plot direction still feels like it was thrown together furiously the night before it was due by someone who didn't read any of the earlier parts, like a student finishing a book report on a book they hated.
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May 11, 2024 11:50
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Arcanuse posted:If only there was some other, not-kerrigan zerg to be in charge of em here. If only. It would have been so easy to make it one of her broodmothers or something on enough of a leash where they won't attack the protoss but unwilling to actually wait for them.
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May 11, 2024 11:58
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My guess is that these maps were made(or at least the dialogue for them) immediately prior to the their release and Kerrigan's completely unnecessary attitude here is the result of somebody attempting to copy the freshly released The Witcher 3's Yennefer of Vengerberg but forgetting to create the appropriate stakes for this kind of behaviour to make sense.
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May 11, 2024 12:25
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When I first played this I was like, "Wow, Moebius figured out how to warp in units and poo poo? I can't wait to see more of this evil Terran faction with hijacked Protoss tech!" Hopefully everyone reading this is looking forward to seeing where this goes too. 
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May 11, 2024 12:33
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Excuse me, what's this poo poo about "awakening the Xel'naga." Buddy the Xel'naga are canonically genocided all to gently caress by the Zerg millennia ago. Please, make the stupid loving retcons stop!Warmachine posted:Taking an early lunch is antithetical to Kerrigan's Gaslight Gatekeep Genocide ethos. If/when I pick this up again, I might try for that 10th achievement just on principle. A TV with Dark Eldar game shows, that'll keep them entertained for a while.
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May 11, 2024 12:51
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Arcanuse posted:If only there was some other, not-kerrigan zerg to be in charge of em here. If only. Yeah, this sequence would make a lot more sense if Zagara was running the show. Mean as hell Zerg supremacist, willing to follow orders but not negotiate, a big fan of banelings. Putting Zagara in charge would immediately justify pretty much everything else. Warmachine posted:I was playing Dawn of War Soulstorm recently and was definitely curious how the Dark Eldar had managed to keep a fully armed squad of Karskin and like three platoons of Guardsmen, Ogryn and assorted riff-raff with all of their kit completely docile... A decent cup of coffee, most likely.
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May 11, 2024 12:59
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If nothing else, we know Kerrigan doesn't like Zeratul. Even after she stopped attacking him on sight, she still has no interest in his prophecies, and only followed his plans on Zerus because it would get her more power to use against Mengsk. That hasn't changed since then. She still doesn't care about his prophecies... and frankly, Kerrigan has a terrible relationship with the Protoss in general at this point. "Do your thing if you must, but stay out of my way while I do mine" is honestly the best we could really hope for from her at this point. I'm imagining a mentality along the lines of "If he's still any good at anything besides rambling, he'll be able to get what he wants and get out before I finish here, and if he's not, oh well, not my problem." All the prophecy stuff is still bullshit to her at this point, and let's not forget... we can't completely attribute Kerrigan's survival to the Prophecy, since the Prophecy missions in Wings can be completely skipped. Jim was given a chance to save his girlfriend, and by god, he took it. All in all, Kerrigan's been given very little reason to give a single gently caress about Zeratul's prophecies. They were convenient when they led her to more power, but now, they're just in the way.
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May 11, 2024 13:25
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BlazetheInferno posted:All in all, Kerrigan's been given very little reason to give a single gently caress about Zeratul's prophecies. They were convenient when they led her to more power, but now, they're just in the way. For all that they try to make Kerrigan seem to be the poor, injured protagonist the way that she's sad when she has no power and just bulldozes everyone when she does have power instead makes her seem like a manipulative rear end in a top hat who only sees other people as tools to use for her own ends.
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May 11, 2024 13:28
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Wasn't that her entire characterization in Brood War?
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May 11, 2024 13:30
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Kerrigan's back to calling herself the Queen of Blades, I see. That's... interesting?
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May 11, 2024 13:52
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Kith posted:A decent cup of coffee, most likely. poo poo. They're all traitors. PurpleXVI posted:For all that they try to make Kerrigan seem to be the poor, injured protagonist the way that she's sad when she has no power and just bulldozes everyone when she does have power instead makes her seem like a manipulative rear end in a top hat who only sees other people as tools to use for her own ends. Seem? Kith posted:Wasn't that her entire characterization in Brood War? Yes, which makes it all the more interesting seeing as they just spent a whole game walking that back.
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May 11, 2024 14:04
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Annoying thing for anyone going after that anniversary achievement: After Kerrigan takes a base a “wall of biomass” is put over the former entrance to it, permanently closing it off. So if you want to attack the previous bases, you have to snake around to strike into the singular ways in. What I liked to do is wait for Kerrigans attack wave to go out, then dive in behind it into the base while it is as weak as it can be.
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May 11, 2024 15:20
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BlazetheInferno posted:If nothing else, we know Kerrigan doesn't like Zeratul. Even after she stopped attacking him on sight, she still has no interest in his prophecies, and only followed his plans on Zerus because it would get her more power to use against Mengsk. The problem is that aside from one comment near the end of the mission Zeratul never mentions the prophecy. He tells her he's there for some intel and to save some prisoners and she just tells him to gently caress off.
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May 11, 2024 15:45
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Xarn posted:Huh, apparently all the missions mixed together, because I don't remember that many timed ones. Out of curiosity, do you count say Last Stand as timed? Of course I see this post after I've deleted the text file with my notes in it. I'll go back through real quick. Last Stand I did count the first time but on second look it's definitely not. My new total is 7 timed (with one more I think is timed but might not be and one being a soft timer), 4 no-build, 11 non-timed. Last Stand I was picturing the co-op mission for it, which is timed. I think I also had Rak'Shir and Brothers in Arms as soft timers in my last list, which..... eh. They kind of are but not really since a token effort keeps you from losing either of them. Amon's Fall I don't remember if it's actually a hard timer because I don't think I've spent enough time in that mission to find out if you do lose all your bases. It definitely felt like there were more timed missions when I last played it, but apparently not. Maybe because the non-timed missions are more front-and-end loaded, with the timed missions being mostly in the middle of the game. As for this mission: There's a cheese you can do that involves dragging Kerrigan's first attack wave over to the left side of the map, where they fight the enemies over by the first prisoners and then get stuck there. Makes it a whole lot easier to clear her base, since the game only starts making an attack wave once the previous one dies.
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May 11, 2024 22:14
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I miss Tychus
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May 11, 2024 23:02
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Kith posted:Yeah, this sequence would make a lot more sense if Zagara was running the show. Mean as hell Zerg supremacist, willing to follow orders but not negotiate, a big fan of banelings. Putting Zagara in charge would immediately justify pretty much everything else. In particular, was thinking of Niadra. Tidy followup on leaving em with standing "Hunt Protoss" orders. Minus the matter of how they got here, but could probably work something out. ...Or did they bite it off-camera before Legacy of the Void? forgot when that was supposed to happen
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May 12, 2024 00:25
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So, the Xel'Naga being science nerds eaten by their own creations... Is that also a Warhammer 40k thingie? Because I'm reminded of the Brain Boyz who were supposedly responsible for creating the Orks and Eldar and all, but then either died off or were absorbed by the Orks into a degenerate race.
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May 12, 2024 02:33
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painedforever posted:So, the Xel'Naga being science nerds eaten by their own creations... it would be weird to credit warhammer for inventing a generic trope that predates it by thousands of years. before there was even a word for 'scientists' it was cautionary tales of wizards or gods creating something that they couldn't control.
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May 12, 2024 02:46
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Arcanuse posted:In particular, was thinking of Niadra. Tidy followup on leaving em with standing "Hunt Protoss" orders. Minus the matter of how they got here, but could probably work something out. Niadra has been kept in the back pocket for Starcraft 3 for reasons that will eventually become clear. painedforever posted:So, the Xel'Naga being science nerds eaten by their own creations... The concept of ME AM PLAY GODS predates 40k by a good bit.
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May 12, 2024 03:12
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And there was in fact an older race that created the Korks, who eventually became the Orks.
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May 12, 2024 04:46
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Kith posted:Niadra has been kept in the back pocket for Starcraft 3 for reasons that will eventually become clear. It will in fact never become clear. This is an assertion I stand by and if Blizzard uses her in Starcraft 3, I'll take my loving ban.
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May 12, 2024 06:58
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Niadra showed up in an online tie in comic and she's still 100% on mission "kill all protoss"
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May 12, 2024 07:23
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Dark God? Are you kidding me?? It's like they'd been writing WoW for so long they forgot how to write anything else. Also this mission really makes me miss Zertul's original voice actor. Like most of the SC2 voicework, it's really bland. He doesn't sound like he believes in this plot any more than I do. It was the same with Kerrigan in HoTS but not nearly this bad.
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May 12, 2024 08:30
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painedforever posted:So, the Xel'Naga being science nerds eaten by their own creations... 40K "canon" is a mess with different eras across its history that all contradict itself, I remember when Brain Boyz were Orks that ate a specific fungus to get smarter but the Orkz over consumed until it went extinct leaving them the loveable half wits we came to know. Now modern canon is Orkz will develop in response to galatic conditions that resemble the war they were created for and degenerate during less perilous times, when your Orkz are getting smarter you know the galaxy is in trouble. Even then I'm not sure if that's anywhere near true at the moment.
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May 12, 2024 11:28
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painedforever posted:So, the Xel'Naga being science nerds eaten by their own creations... silentsnack posted:it would be weird to credit warhammer for inventing a generic trope that predates it by thousands of years. before there was even a word for 'scientists' it was cautionary tales of wizards or gods creating something that they couldn't control. Nothing is original in Warhammer. Nothing. It is a glorious stew of references to literally anything that Priestly, Chambers et. al. thought was cool and/or funny. Which is why the setting rules when you have writers like Sandy Mitchell who are in on the joke. Realistically, though, it is possible that the xel'naga were at least part inspired by brain boys, starcraft has enough suspiciously warhammerlike setting beats that it might not all be convergent evolution. Metzen ever make a definitive statement on how much warhammer was actually in warcraft? aniviron posted:Dark God? Are you kidding me?? It's like they'd been writing WoW for so long they forgot how to write anything else. Compare with Fred Tatasciore's work elsewhere and you can infer how much enthusiasm he had for this particular job. Though I'm imagining if he had used his Saren voice for Zeratul now and I kind of like it. Kith posted:Niadra has been kept in the back pocket for Starcraft 3 for reasons that will eventually become clear. Is it damp under that bridge?
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May 12, 2024 12:28
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bladededge posted:Is it damp under that bridge? Whatever could you mean? I am simply repeating what I have been told directly from the horse's mouth.  In all seriousness, Niadra was deliberately kept unresolved so that there could be a hostile Zerg faction floating around since Kerrigan's Swarm is now nominally The Good Guys.
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May 12, 2024 12:57
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bladededge posted:Nothing is original in Warhammer. Nothing. It is a glorious stew of references to literally anything that Priestly, Chambers et. al. thought was cool and/or funny. Which is why the setting rules when you have writers like Sandy Mitchell who are in on the joke. Well, that is sort of what I was going for. A lot of the look and feel of Starcraft feels like it was heavily inspired by Warhammer 40k. Like Blizzard tried to pitch it like an RTS set in that universe but couldn't get the license, or just created it like a homage, but then it became its own thing after a while.
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May 12, 2024 20:34
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I still can't believe Chapter Master Jimicus Raynorian hosed a tyranid
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May 12, 2024 20:44
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painedforever posted:Well, that is sort of what I was going for. A lot of the look and feel of Starcraft feels like it was heavily inspired by Warhammer 40k. Like Blizzard tried to pitch it like an RTS set in that universe but couldn't get the license, or just created it like a homage, but then it became its own thing after a while. Blizzard and Games Workshop have a long history of frequently stealing from each other, starting with Warcraft.
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May 12, 2024 22:44
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Ah, Legacy of the Void. Check in your brain at the entrance, you won't be needing it. It's still better than Heart though and lol  that it has to be specified.bladededge posted:Is it damp under that bridge? I'm not familiar with this turn of phrase. A variation on 'water under the bridge'?
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May 12, 2024 22:58
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Trolls traditionally live under bridges.
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May 12, 2024 23:00
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Omobono posted:Ah, Legacy of the Void. Check in your brain at the entrance, you won't be needing it. It's still better than Heart though and lol Gameplay, or story? I'm assuming we're saying that the story isn't quite as bad. Gameplay hasn't been so bad...?
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May 13, 2024 01:23
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Legacy of the Void's main campaign has a better story and significantly better (and cooler) gameplay. They do some really, REALLY wild poo poo that required multiple engine updates to make possible.
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May 13, 2024 01:42
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Legacy of the Void is a huge improvement over HotS. It's way more fun to play in pretty much every way and has a much more interesting gimmick that doesn't take over the campaign. It also has the best and most varied ways to customize your units. The story is forgettable to garbage most of the time, but there's some cool setpieces and a few of the characters in LoTV are actually fun. The prologue and epilogue are both horrendous, but the actual main portion of LotV is mostly fine.
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May 13, 2024 02:55
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Even as someone who doesn't like overpowered top bar abilities and the missions being balanced around them, I say LotV gameplay is better than HotS. I think the upgrade system is dumber though.
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May 13, 2024 07:54
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I assume the upgrade system no longer uses essence?
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May 13, 2024 08:08
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