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Back Hack posted:I'm reluctant to point this out, because I'm 100% completely convince it was entirely by accident and it shows a level of subtilty and critical thinking I don't think Beth is capable of. But Gucsy sees the damage she's done and attempts to make amends.
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May 13, 2024 03:10
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twistedmentat posted:But Gucsy sees the damage she's done and attempts to make amends. That sounds like a justification to excuse her actions…wonder who that reminds me of. 
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May 13, 2024 04:21
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A character literally looks at the screen and says 'everyone wants to save the world, they just disagree on how'. This isn't subtle at all, it is literally the theme of the story being told.
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May 13, 2024 09:07
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Alchenar posted:This isn't subtle at all, it is literally the theme of the story being told. The theme of show is pew pew bang bang and ain’t the wasteland just a wacky place.
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May 13, 2024 14:28
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Harlock posted:It's really kind of amazing the cross-over or reach this show has. Spoke to my 50-something coworker who has never played any of the games and is hooked. A good show is a good show. I had no knowledge of One Piece but absolutely loved the show. A bad show is a bad show. Halo and Cowboy Beebop, nuff said.
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May 13, 2024 15:13
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Eh, I feel Lucy just doesn't have enough agency in the whole thing to make her a copy/mirror of her dad. The only 'community' she destroyed is the two stoners and their organ harvesting business. Vault 3 is continuing along and Philly was down to the Enclave scientist travelling through that way and would have happened whether or not Lucy happened by. What her dad did was super-loving-petty. We haven't yet seen anyone else be like that.
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May 13, 2024 15:13
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Back Hack posted:I'm reluctant to point this out, because I'm 100% completely convince it was entirely by accident and it shows a level of subtilty and critical thinking I don't think Beth is capable of. After leaving Vault 4, Lucy explicitly highlights this when asking Maximus to return the fusion core, and indicates that was not how she was brought up: "If my Dad found out that I destroyed an entire community to save him, that'd break his heart". The statement's an absolutely deliberate parallel for the revelation in Ep8, and part of her feelings of betrayal comes from the discovery that the person who brought her up like that didn't live up to that same morality. mclem fucked around with this message at 10:48 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 15:43
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LashLightning posted:Eh, I feel Lucy just doesn't have enough agency in the whole thing to make her a copy/mirror of her dad. The only 'community' she destroyed is the two stoners and their organ harvesting business. Vault 3 is continuing along and Philly was down to the Enclave scientist travelling through that way and would have happened whether or not Lucy happened by. Yeah and that whole episode arc left her with a good morale compass. She gives Cooper the meds, she tried to foolishly help all the ghouls even the feral ones, she followed that golden rule mother fucker. I doubt dad would have done the same Faucet Drinker fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 13, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 15:48
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Harlock posted:It's really kind of amazing the cross-over or reach this show has. Spoke to my 50-something coworker who has never played any of the games and is hooked. It is but in a way I'm not too surprised. The whole vibe of the setting is this whole general distilled Americana combined with a very familiar tradition of post-apocalyptic sci-fi. Anyone familiar with the culture and media of 1950s America and the cold war, and with Mad Max and its relatives, is going to get the references and satire, and both of those are just enough part of pop culture that it's going to reach a lot of people that know nothing of the games. It also nailing game aesthetics and references helps on that front in a way too. While it's success as an adaptation matters so much to game fans, the games are a pretty polished and accessible roadmap to doing the genre, and the show is successful using that accessible and self-explanatory side of it first, with the more detailed game references being things you don't need to understand or even notice to enjoy the show.
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May 13, 2024 16:21
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LashLightning posted:Eh, I feel Lucy just doesn't have enough agency in the whole thing to make her a copy/mirror of her dad. The only 'community' she destroyed is the two stoners and their organ harvesting business. Vault 3 is continuing along and Philly was down to the Enclave scientist travelling through that way and would have happened whether or not Lucy happened by. I'll agree with you on the agency part, that's very fair point. However on the other point, she very deliberately does destroy a community/group by leading the BOS group toward to the Shady Sands survivors (through Max). mclem posted:After leaving Vault 4, Lucy explicitly highlights this when asking Maximus to return the fusion core, and indicates that was not how she was brought up: Five bucks says in S2, there is no reflection her actions, only the lamenting of her dad did bad things. Faucet Drinker posted:Yeah and that whole episode arc left her with a good morale compass. She gives Cooper the meds, she tried to foolishly help all the ghouls even the feral ones, she followed that golden rule mother fucker. I doubt dad would have done the same All the caged ghouls she saved died (as shown in the show). So do the good intentions really matter if they're cancelled out by her ignorance and gullibility?
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May 15, 2024 02:43
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Back Hack posted:All the caged ghouls she saved died (as shown in the show). So do the good intentions really matter if they're cancelled out by her ignorance and gullibility? No they didn't. Only the feral ghouls died. The other ones ran out. Unless I missed a scene where the regular ghouls got killed by something.
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May 15, 2024 04:47
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Yeah one of the ghouls from the Super Duper Mart appears again at Moldaver's observatory and recognizes Lucy.
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May 15, 2024 04:52
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Why are we still using spoilers?
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May 15, 2024 07:47
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Because people are still popping in saying they are watching the show. it's just being courteous.
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May 15, 2024 07:59
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The sad nature of binge-dumped shows on streaming services 
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May 15, 2024 08:11
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It's been six weeks.
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May 15, 2024 08:43
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No one is stopping you from not using spoiler tags
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May 15, 2024 09:01
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I'm sorry to report but you're trapped in a vault where the experiment is to see how long it takes to kill you with spoiler tags.
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May 15, 2024 09:46
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quote:All the caged ghouls she saved died (as shown in the show). So do the good intentions really matter if they're cancelled out by her ignorance and gullibility? Only the feral died, and yeah of.course it does when specifically discussing moral character. She may be chaotic good, but seemingly still is in the good category somewhere.
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May 15, 2024 15:10
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Feral ghouls are also beyond saving- so getting gunned down quick rather than remain locked up by junkies might have been a mercy. I think every fallout game since their introduction has touched on this tragic aspech, one way or another. In fo4 there's a community of feral ghouls that lasted almost 200 years before they started going feral, one by one, and despite their best efforts they're unable to stop it- and once you finally go feral, there's no way back
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May 15, 2024 19:32
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I was wondering if feral ghouls cared about normal ghouls and I finally answered my question while playing 4 the other night. Apparently ferals leave normal ghouls alone, which allowed the ghoul to have a hideout in the middle of a pack of ferals.
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May 15, 2024 20:42
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Why were they holding onto the Ghouls, anyway? Were they using them to create more Rad-X drugs from their blood or something?
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May 15, 2024 23:47
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ilmucche posted:The sad nature of binge-dumped shows on streaming services Really dumb that they binge dumped this, Last of Us got a lot of mileage from dominating the discourse for like two months. Amazon does The Boys weekly so I don't know why this one was a binge dump situation.
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May 16, 2024 00:14
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Arc Hammer posted:Why were they holding onto the Ghouls, anyway? Were they using them to create more Rad-X drugs from their blood or something? It was an organ harvesting facility so maybe just selling them as meat? I assume a ghoul organ is useless in a transplant scenario but if Cooper is making rear end jerky then it seems viable.
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May 16, 2024 00:24
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Arc Hammer posted:Why were they holding onto the Ghouls, anyway? Were they using them to create more Rad-X drugs from their blood or something? The doors said "Ghoul organs 50 caps"
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May 16, 2024 01:40
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Back Hack posted:I'll agree with you on the agency part, that's very fair point. However on the other point, she very deliberately does destroy a community/group by leading the BOS group toward to the Shady Sands survivors (through Max). What goes down with the NCR at the end is not 100% intentional on Lucy's part; once she knew the truth about her father and his connection to Moldaver it was clear that she recognized the value of that community both as a connection to her mother and for it's own sake as a refuge in the wasteland with actual purpose. How things go down with the BOS is more an indictment of the singlemindedness of the BOS and Max's naivety than any sort of moral failing of Lucy, who is repeatedly shown to have surpassed her father (and probably every other vault dweller outside of Vault 4 and maybe her brother) in terms of genuinely caring for others and seeking to uphold the golden rule even if it means personal risk or loss.
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May 16, 2024 04:28
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Mat Cauthon posted:genuinely caring for others and seeking to uphold the golden rule even if it means personal risk or loss. Huh, Lucy is Fallout's version of Vash the Stampede? Hell, I'll take it.
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May 16, 2024 04:39
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Back Hack posted:I'll agree with you on the agency part, that's very fair point. However on the other point, she very deliberately does destroy a community/group by leading the BOS group toward to the Shady Sands survivors (through Max). I would also say that’s not really on Lucy. The raid on the vault at the start isn’t committed by NCR troops, or by vengeful NCR civilians. They are attacked by raiders, who act like raiders even after being captured. There was a reasonable expectation on Lucy’s part that Moldaver was going to be located at a raider camp, so she could attack it without NCR reputation loss.
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May 16, 2024 09:48
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Arc Hammer posted:Huh, Lucy is Fallout's version of Vash the Stampede? Hell, I'll take it.  Same. Down, to the macguffin Lucy was engineered/chosen for yatta yatta
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May 17, 2024 03:43
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Killer robot posted:It is but in a way I'm not too surprised. The whole vibe of the setting is this whole general distilled Americana combined with a very familiar tradition of post-apocalyptic sci-fi. It's an irradiated Norman Rockwell painting that someone pissed on
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May 17, 2024 13:00
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Megillah Gorilla posted:It's been six weeks. Great show overall, but it's definitely a bummer to end with seeing the last remnants of the NCR get mowed down. The pre-Bethesda games were a post-post apocalypse with cities and infrastructure. What passes for "society" in the Bethesda games is often a couple yokels in a shack with the word "Govermint" on it. There's an interesting metatextual irony to the way it's all set up. Vault-Tec is determined to only let civilization emerge on their terms: nuking the whole world to achieve these ends, and nuking civilization's attempt to re-emerge 200 years later. In parallel, the showrunners are happy to undo any of the progress civilization had made in the games: no Shady Sands, no NCR, New Vegas looks worse off than we left it. Tens of thousands can be sacrificed to ensure the show can follow the traditional Fallout formula. Sivart13 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 17, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 17:03
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Sivart13 posted:well I just finished the show but I'm also sane enough to stay out of a show thread for a binge-dumped show Beth really doesn't like how the previous games focused on the POST part of post-apocalypse for some reason. Something I dislike (and Chris Avellone has touched on this a little) they retconned the Enclave to be this mysterious organization that unknowable and all encompassing. When the previous games they were very much know, and very much dead. I think they're way to obsessed with justifying rewrites just so they can have BoS face off against another technology advance, fascist/evil pre-war organization with again mysterious goals that are never explained. Back Hack fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 17, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 17:31
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I think it's just that, fundamentally, the games are being sold on a certain kind of look, which is the bombed out post-apocalipstic vibe. The setting experiencing development and recovery means altering the iconography, which means loving with the aesthetic selling points of your IP, and you don't gently caress with the IP. At least you don't do that if you're a conservative minded person who's only going to be making "safe" artistic choices. It's why every Beth Fallout project starts the exact same loving way. I've seen goons argue that the idea of regression back to the post-apocalyptic is in line with "war never changes", but I dunno. I think that's a very specific and narrow interpretation of that line. It's not like Alexander The Great, Atilla The Hun and Genghis Khan all generated nuclear fallout and kitsch Americana wherever they went.
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May 17, 2024 18:10
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Open Source Idiom posted:It's not like Alexander The Great, Atilla The Hun and Genghis Khan all generated nuclear fallout and kitsch Americana wherever they went. 
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May 17, 2024 18:46
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Would be funny/interesting to see the NCR and the Enclave to denounce each other as illegitimate States and rebel terrorists. But, again, the Enclave should be dead and gone by now. Would also be somewhat interesting to see how Vault-Tec plans to lead a nation it makes, and the shock of absolutely no one respecting it. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not... Whatever the gently caress Roombud, Detective Maud'ib and Overseer Betty have in mind. Ah, poo poo, the executive breeding program, Norm is the Kwisatz Haderach!
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May 17, 2024 19:47
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LashLightning posted:Ah, poo poo, the executive breeding program, Norm is the Kwisatz Haderach! All according to Betty Gesserit's plan.
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May 17, 2024 20:01
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It's really funny that the new America will be ruled by a bunch of 20 something idiots who were either frozen for 200 years, or grew old in an environment where they were always in charge so no one ever told them no or kept them in check.
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May 17, 2024 20:23
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Cojawfee posted:It's really funny that the new America will be ruled by a bunch of 20 something idiots who were either frozen for 200 years, or grew old in an environment where they were always in charge so no one ever told them no or kept them in check. It's a shame IRL follows the same rules as Beth's game development in that it has a hard limit of 4GB of memory. The shows production might crash other wise. Back Hack fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 18, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 21:07
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I don't care if it doesn't make sense in the TV show world, I want season 2 to include the classic Bethesda "NPC does walking animation into a table while trying to talk to you".
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May 18, 2024 02:02
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They should do a "bloopers reel" of classic Bethesda game bugs ruining actual scenes.
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