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gurragadon posted:Being a large creature by default doesn't really seem that great now that I'm looking at it. The only default extension to your reach is overhead which goes to 10 ft. It could be good for locking down corridors and preventing an enemy from tumbling through because its twice the difficult terrain. Alot of enemies have easier ways of getting around a big blockade though. The difficult terrain thing isn't really bad, since your fights will rarely be in the one tile wide hallways themselves. Tumble through is a bit of an issue if you were planning to dump dex, but the level 5 full large benefits without the clumsy and stat spread on minotaurs make up for it. In general, I've found size increases are beneficial even without reach because of increasing the range of spaces you're adjacent to for reactions, auras, and spells that emanate from you. Mainly my issue is that minotaurs seem like an automatic slam pick for way more builds than any one ancestry should be.
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May 11, 2024 19:02
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kingcobweb posted:Did you read four words into the post I guess my question would be "would you make a bastard sword user do the same thing"? Because at the end of the day it's just a different grip, same as two-handing a weapon with the Two-Hand trait. I don't see any reason why they couldn't draw in the reach-enabling grip same as a bastard sword user couldn't draw in the two-hand grip.
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May 11, 2024 19:11
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Mister Olympus posted:Mainly my issue is that minotaurs seem like an automatic slam pick for way more builds than any one ancestry should be. humans.txt I probably would have made the lvl5 reach feat a stance though
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May 11, 2024 19:14
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Kyrosiris posted:I guess my question would be "would you make a bastard sword user do the same thing"? Because at the end of the day it's just a different grip, same as two-handing a weapon with the Two-Hand trait. I don't see any reason why they couldn't draw in the reach-enabling grip same as a bastard sword user couldn't draw in the two-hand grip. Yeah, fair enough, I was feeling harsher before I finished my coffee Also fwiw this feat already exists in a level one version for Leshys, with a key difference: quote:You can extend a tangle of vines or tendrils to support your arms and extend your reach. When you wield a melee weapon that requires two hands, doesn’t have reach, and deals at least 1d6 damage, you can change between a typical two-handed grip and an extended two-handed grasp using an Interact action. Weapons wielded in your extended grasp gain reach of 10 feet. This grasp is less stable and powerful than a typical grip, reducing the weapon’s damage die by 1 step.
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May 11, 2024 19:16
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Goatcentaur or faun with climbspeed
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May 11, 2024 19:45
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Andrast posted:humans.txt yeah humans are a problem too. though the other thing about minotaurs is that, like with the leshy example above, they have Just Better versions of feats that other ancestries get at a higher level or with drawbacks, and those should be retroactively adjusted if Minotaur is the new standard
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May 11, 2024 19:51
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Andrast posted:humans.txt Eh, then it'd shut down most/all builds that rely on stances. I can see why they didn't do that, even if I'm not super thrilled with how they did do it.
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May 11, 2024 20:24
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There was already a technically Large ancestry in the form of Beastkin after picking up Dire Form at 13th. That just gave you permanent (though toggle-able) effects of the Enlarge spell. That has the standard trade off of the clumsy effect for the reach and status bonus to damage, but it's an existing benchmark for getting those features from an Ancestry and its feats.
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May 11, 2024 20:32
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What's a good "starter campaign" for a group? I've run my players through beginner box and a couple one shots and everyone is feeling comfortable now. I'm looking to run an AP now for awhile before dabbling in some homebrew. I was checking out outlaws, and strength of thousands
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May 11, 2024 20:44
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My group's first one long lasting one has been Abomination Vaults and it's been pretty enjoyable! There's not a ton of roleplay chances given it's more of a dungeon crawl but it's felt like a pretty good easing into the system that's slowly stepped up the difficulty floor by floor. Strength of Thousands seems super cool but sadly both campaigns I've gotten to try it have fallen through fairly early on, but what I did see was super fun.
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May 11, 2024 20:48
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I'm enjoying Sky King's Tomb a lot, leans a lot more on the adventure and roleplay and less on the combat. Biggest issue so far is definitely just the fact that you need some buy-in from the group to play a Dwarf-centered AP, you don't have to all be Dwarves but you gotta at least agree to be nice to them and want to help them.
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May 11, 2024 21:05
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Vanguard Warden posted:There was already a technically Large ancestry in the form of Beastkin after picking up Dire Form at 13th. That just gave you permanent (though toggle-able) effects of the Enlarge spell. That has the standard trade off of the clumsy effect for the reach and status bonus to damage, but it's an existing benchmark for getting those features from an Ancestry and its feats. conrasu, lizardfolk, and automaton have this too and was basically the standard before minotaur came in to do its thing. theoretically the tradeoff is that minotaur only works with two-handed non-reach weapons in exchange for not getting permanent clumsy, since it doesn't add to reach in the same way that enlarge is. but access at level 5 rather than 13 (17 for lizards) is kind of a big deal, and most of what you want to do with reach and permanent enlarge is going to involve two-handed weapons. there's a similar thing going on with how an awakened flying animal gets permanent flight much earlier than the previous benchmark, strix, which had a tradeoff of overall less powerful ancestry feats than something like tengu in exchange for getting flying earlier. Kitfox88 posted:My group's first one long lasting one has been Abomination Vaults and it's been pretty enjoyable! There's not a ton of roleplay chances given it's more of a dungeon crawl but it's felt like a pretty good easing into the system that's slowly stepped up the difficulty floor by floor. Strength of Thousands seems super cool but sadly both campaigns I've gotten to try it have fallen through fairly early on, but what I did see was super fun. roleplay in AV is interesting. some groups seem to really latch onto certain town NPCs and enjoy their trips back up. in my case, my group seemed to like all the miscellaneous dungeon weirdos more, so i leaned into making more encounters have surrender conditions or sidequests than the book necessarily suggests, so they could talk to a greater variety of dungeon weirdos. in particular, a lot will hinge on whether your party feels bad for either of the trapped devils on the first couple floors, which will probably color their interactions with devils in the midgame. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 21:31 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 21:14
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The only real issue is that mermaids cannot swim as fast as Azarketi as default for some reason.
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May 11, 2024 21:27
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Facebook Aunt posted:Centaur falls and breaks his leg. we've finally sound the source for all the magic glue in golarion
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May 11, 2024 22:22
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queeb posted:What's a good "starter campaign" for a group? I've run my players through beginner box and a couple one shots and everyone is feeling comfortable now. I'm looking to run an AP now for awhile before dabbling in some homebrew. I was checking out outlaws, and strength of thousands
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May 11, 2024 22:54
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Mister Olympus posted:roleplay in AV is interesting. some groups seem to really latch onto certain town NPCs and enjoy their trips back up. in my case, my group seemed to like all the miscellaneous dungeon weirdos more, so i leaned into making more encounters have surrender conditions or sidequests than the book necessarily suggests, so they could talk to a greater variety of dungeon weirdos. We've been fairly peaceable and understanding with the Devils we've encountered but that may be due to the DM playing up that they also really do not want to be here with flavoring of being made to work unpaid overtime. They also gave the one little fly head cherub dude a Danny DeVito voice.  But yeah, it's been a real fun path so far, highly recommended. Once we wrap it up I'm tempted to grab my own Foundry license and the Outlaws of Alkenstar path to run as a replacement if the timeslot still works, because man is PF2e really scratching That Itch for me.
Kitfox88 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 11, 2024 |
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May 11, 2024 23:27
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Mister Olympus posted:conrasu, lizardfolk, and automaton have this too and was basically the standard before minotaur came in to do its thing. Aww, I got all excited about lizardfolk getting to be big too and looked it up only to find out that they don't get theirs until 17th, boo.
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May 11, 2024 23:27
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Hellioning posted:The only real issue is that mermaids cannot swim as fast as Azarketi as default for some reason. lmao what that's dumb
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May 12, 2024 00:43
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queeb posted:What's a good "starter campaign" for a group? I've run my players through beginner box and a couple one shots and everyone is feeling comfortable now. I'm looking to run an AP now for awhile before dabbling in some homebrew. I was checking out outlaws, and strength of thousands Season of Ghosts is absolutely delightful. There aren't a lot of confusing additional subsystems in the early books, and the designers tuned down the low level encounter difficulty compared to a lot of the earlier APs so unoptimized parties are at less risk of TPK at low levels.
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May 12, 2024 00:44
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Arrrthritis posted:lmao what It is! And Azarketi have normal land speed, even.
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May 12, 2024 00:45
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My partner loves mermaids, so I was super excited to show her the merfolk ancestry. Then I actually read it, and it's... really bad. Like, I would legit feel bad encouraging her to try to play one. And the water-wheelchair doesn't even work RAW, unless you want to roll around at 5 speed. To be frank, a lot of stuff in this book seems super half-baked, and I think it will need a significant amount of errata to fix. A lot of the ideas are cool, but the execution is inconsistent at best. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 01:53 on May 12, 2024 |
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May 12, 2024 01:46
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Dick Burglar posted:My partner loves mermaids, so I was super excited to show her the merfolk ancestry. Then I actually read it, and it's... really bad. Like, I would legit feel bad encouraging her to try to play one. And the water-wheelchair doesn't even work RAW, unless you want to roll around at 5 speed. What don’t you like about it beyond move speeds? (I haven’t seen the full ancestry yet)
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May 12, 2024 01:56
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They seem pretty fine to me. You're just going to need a mount if you want to go on land. Ride some kind of horse, get a legchair or ride a centaur.
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May 12, 2024 02:12
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-Base (land) move speed of 5 is pretty much unplayable, especially combined with the fact that whoever wrote the water-wheelchair (supramarine chair) apparently didn't know how wheelchairs worked. They only let you move at your "normal speed," which is still 5. Errata can fix this by letting you move at your swim speed. And by the way, that's just a normal real-life wheelchair. If you want one that can do basic adventurer stuff like go up/down stairs, you're spending significantly more (land-delver's chair, 5 gp). -You need to touch -The perks base are a pretty-fast swim speed, low-light vision, and turning a regular success into a critical success when you roll a saving throw against a water effect. Incredibly niche. So niche you're going to forget it's even a thing on the one time in a campaign it'd actually apply. -At level 5, you can take a feat to increase your move speed... to 15. If this were a level 1 feat I'd (kind of) get it, but it's level 5. Why in god's name is this so punishing? To be honest I only skimmed the higher level stuff (seems fine-ish?) because I cannot imagine anyone suffering through the low levels to get to higher-level play. Maybe they're turbo-OP later on, but nobody's gonna bother getting there. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 02:31 on May 12, 2024 |
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May 12, 2024 02:18
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queeb posted:What's a good "starter campaign" for a group? I've run my players through beginner box and a couple one shots and everyone is feeling comfortable now. I'm looking to run an AP now for awhile before dabbling in some homebrew. I was checking out outlaws, and strength of thousands i think if you have a group that would be interested in the flavor of either outlaws or strength of thousands you definitely want to run that one, they're both doing real unique stuff
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May 12, 2024 02:25
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Dick Burglar posted:-Base (land) move speed of 5 is pretty much unplayable, especially combined with the fact that whoever wrote the water-wheelchair (supramarine chair) apparently didn't know how wheelchairs worked. They only let you move at your "normal speed," which is still 5. Errata can fix this by letting you move at your swim speed. And by the way, that's just a normal real-life wheelchair. If you want one that can do basic adventurer stuff like go up/down stairs, you're spending significantly more (land-delver's chair, 5 gp). This seems less like they're unusable and more like trying to play a merfolk character in a land campaign is a mistake
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May 12, 2024 02:38
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Jen X posted:This seems less like they're unusable and more like trying to play a merfolk character in a land campaign is a mistake The issue with that, of course, is that land campaigns are, uh, all of them, as far as I am aware. And again, even if you were in a water campaign, you could be an azarketi and be faster than merfolk.
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May 12, 2024 02:43
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If they weren't intended for a land campaign they wouldn't have bothered with a water wheelchair. If they wanted a water wheelchair to be anything they wouldn't have had it be the exact same speed as your basic flopping around speed. Sounds more like an errata to me.
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May 12, 2024 02:43
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The water wheelchair also seems to solve needing to be in water every 24 hours
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May 12, 2024 02:55
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Paizo seems to be having some errata issues as is, though. Roiling Mudslide still does not have an area.
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May 12, 2024 03:06
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Hellioning posted:The issue with that, of course, is that land campaigns are, uh, all of them, as far as I am aware. lol have you never at least heard of a sea based campaign?
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May 12, 2024 04:38
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All of the 'sea based campaigns' I've been on are usually either 'naval campaigns' or 'island campaigns'. I've yet to meet a system with good enough underwater combat rules that people make whole campaigns out of being underwater.
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May 12, 2024 04:50
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Hellioning posted:All of the 'sea based campaigns' I've been on are usually either 'naval campaigns' or 'island campaigns'. Being able to swim really good in a naval campaign sounds pretty useful. Doesn't solve the Azarketi issue though.
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May 12, 2024 04:56
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A merfolk can work great in a naval campaign vOv
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May 12, 2024 04:57
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I would also posit that nothing stops you as the GM from just... letting the hypothetical merfolk player just have the equipment they need to be functional. Yeah, it won't fly in PFS, but I don't see it as any different from giving a character any other kind of mobility equipment so they can play the character they want. Oh no, they got five extra gold for free so they can exist like anyone else, big deal.
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May 12, 2024 05:04
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It doesn't seem like a problem if character options -- class, ancestry, archetype, subclass, etc. -- are not designed for all possible use cases, and weak points can be tooled at the table. Not everything is Society play. That said: Hellioning posted:All of the 'sea based campaigns' I've been on are usually either 'naval campaigns' or 'island campaigns'.
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May 12, 2024 05:10
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Kyrosiris posted:I would also posit that nothing stops you as the GM from just... letting the hypothetical merfolk player just have the equipment they need to be functional. Game agrees with you quote:Athamarus, merfolk, and some awakened animals can be amphibious or aquatic. If your players are interested in playing an aquatic character in a primarily terrestrial campaign, consider starting them off with assistive devices such as the atmospheric breathing suit, pelagic helmet, or supramarine chair from pages 112–113 at no additional cost. For a less technological option, you might consider granting a PC feats such as Land Legs or Shore Gift as a bonus feat at level 1, possibly adding certain narrative limitations like “the merfolk PC gains Shore Gift as a bonus feat, but loses its benefits when the moon is full” if they suit your story.
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May 12, 2024 05:11
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Taciturn Tactician posted:Being able to swim really good in a naval campaign sounds pretty useful. Doesn't solve the Azarketi issue though. Yeah, it sounds useful, but 5 base land speed is still going to kill you on a boat or an island. Half of this really is just the person who wrote the aquatic wheelchair thing not realizing that wheelchairs don't actually raise your base speed, but the Azarketi thing is just ridiculous.
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May 12, 2024 06:44
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My thaumaturge will hit level 5 tonight assuming he survives and I'll be able to pick a second implement. I'm torn on amulet vs weapon. We're running Abomination Vaults. Party is my dwarf thaumaturge (lantern implement, frontliner with an axe), a cloistered cleric of Magrim, a walking arsenal orc fury barbarian, and a human fire/metal kineticist. Our GM complains we are shredding everything he throws at us, though a few fights have been very swingy, and we've had to run a few times. I'd planned on weapon this whole time as the best defense is a good offense but maybe the amulet will be better since we are fairly squishy. Both are minor benefits but I'm noticing that those really add up in pf2e and with my thaum in particular. Any experienced advice?
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May 13, 2024 16:22
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bagrada posted:My thaumaturge will hit level 5 tonight assuming he survives and I'll be able to pick a second implement. I'm torn on amulet vs weapon. We're running Abomination Vaults. Party is my dwarf thaumaturge (lantern implement, frontliner with an axe), a cloistered cleric of Magrim, a walking arsenal orc fury barbarian, and a human fire/metal kineticist. Our GM complains we are shredding everything he throws at us, though a few fights have been very swingy, and we've had to run a few times. I'd planned on weapon this whole time as the best defense is a good offense but maybe the amulet will be better since we are fairly squishy. Both are minor benefits but I'm noticing that those really add up in pf2e and with my thaum in particular. Any experienced advice? I like Weapon in general because I find that if weapon isn’t one of your implements, it’s easy to get lost in the sauce of hand-management to use all of your various tools. (There are ways around this, including relying on natural attacks or having an implement that you simply Don’t Care About in Combat - like the lantern often! - but that needs to be something you’ve planned on). That said, if your objective is to be less squishy, the amulet will definitely help with that, whereas weapon implement will let you add a reaction attack and just further shred things before they hurt your buds.
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May 13, 2024 16:31
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