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Notorious b.s.d. posted:rhapsody dr1, a few years before the official "osx," ran on x86 yeah, a month for something in the neighborhood of production quality. if you move the goal posts up to booting to desktop with networking capabilities with generic vesa and just forgetting about acpi altogether, it was probably a day or two. and while typing that out, i realized i'm also describing a hackintosh, basically.
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Nov 1, 2018 05:25
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Laslow posted:yeah, a month for something in the neighborhood of production quality. if you move the goal posts up to booting to desktop with networking capabilities with generic vesa and just forgetting about acpi altogether, it was probably a day or two. and while typing that out, i realized i'm also describing a hackintosh, basically. tbf hackintosh is only like, five devices away from the hardware actually being sold their original x86 "port" was updating an old source tree by like, five years. little wonder it took a few weeks.
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Nov 1, 2018 05:47
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:tbf hackintosh is only like, five devices away from the hardware actually being sold hell, mac mini was 5 year old hardware which they sold up until yesterday.
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Nov 1, 2018 05:54
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i poo poo on osx at pretty much every available opportunity, because it is a dogshit unix written by assholes serving a market i don't really understand but hear me loud and clear on this fuckin thing no operating system ever has been as deeply committed to multi-architecture development, seriously
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Nov 1, 2018 05:59
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macos has its problems but like what is ur extant, better alternative
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Nov 1, 2018 06:07
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:macos has its problems but like what is ur extant, better alternative that is very much purpose specific as i said, it is a dogshit unix, so i would not recommend trying to use it as a unix supplement or unix development platform
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Nov 1, 2018 06:10
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ok so what if you're 99% of people who use computer
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Nov 1, 2018 06:15
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:ok so what if you're 99% of people who use computer then your computer came with windows preloaded and it's kind of a moot question
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Nov 1, 2018 06:16
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the question is "what is the ideal os for 99% of people who computer" and lol if ur answer is something other than tim os sex
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Nov 1, 2018 06:20
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every unix is a dogshit unix, it is the nature of unix to be dogshit
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Nov 1, 2018 06:20
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:every unix is a dogshit unix, it is the nature of unix to be dogshit it's a relative measure you may hate every unix, but some unixes are worse at being unix than others
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Nov 1, 2018 06:34
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as with dogshit, if crapping out the turd killed your dog, you would probably be unsatisfied with that particular dog poo poo. it doesn't matter that you didn't have high hopes to start with -- "not killing my dog" was a core requirement of a given dog poo poo
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Nov 1, 2018 06:35
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no operating system ever has been as deeply committed to multi-architecture development, seriously and those decades of commitment are really paying off now that they have the A-series to use as the sword of damocles. not unlike how nfl owners used to use LA to swindle them some stadium money.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:39
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it’s been a matter of time ever since apple started shipping laptops with iPad-tdp cpus. I wouldn’t be surprised if the arm port of iTunes was the millstone here. that and it would look weird to have split archs across their laptop line. given that arm does better at 5w now, how long until they’re better at 30-50w?
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Nov 1, 2018 07:59
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:it’s been a matter of time ever since apple started shipping laptops with iPad-tdp cpus. I wouldn’t be surprised if the arm port of iTunes was the millstone here. that and it would look weird to have split archs across their laptop line. given that arm does better at 5w now, how long until they’re better at 30-50w? the only reason i don't think it'll happen sooner is that they just announced new intel models yesterday. they proved they can handle an architecture switch as painlessly as possible. there's probably some things on the manufacturing end that need work too, i would imagine. e: forgot this was a video card thread. so, yes in conclusion powervr is going to release a new dedicated pcie card any day now. Laslow fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 09:06
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i dont think theres any point to a macbook arm. ios already has more software its more secure/controlled and makes apple a ton of money on app store sales on top. at some point ios will just gain mouse pointer support and macos will be deprecated
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Nov 1, 2018 10:54
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poty posted:i dont think theres any point to a macbook arm. ios already has more software its more secure/controlled and makes apple a ton of money on app store sales on top. macos won't disappear until they have an xcode for ios 
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Nov 1, 2018 17:28
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Laslow posted:i think it's a matter of getting that 30-50w cpu ready for primetime so they don't have multiple archs. it was stated in the keynote that the a12x is more powerful than 92% of laptops. now that's hardware that already exists today. they may have an a14xx or whatever a couple years that'll not only outperform intel, but quite frankly make them look like irrelevant power hogs like PowerPC. even if they can't beat intel on the very high end, the tdp advantage will make intel look like ridiculous clowns. remember this is apple's performance number. they also used to claim 500 mhz G4s were fast. it's almost inconceivable that a low power arm chip can rival x86 or POWER for single thread performance. i do not think you would enjoy running a compiler on that sucker i don't doubt that apple has industry-leading ARM core designs. i just doubt that an ARM core meant for a cellphone is gonna stand up to serious CPUs that draw 100w
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Nov 1, 2018 17:28
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also there exist like three watt intel parts the reason you never hear about them is that, as with low-power ARM parts, the performance sucks poo poo
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Nov 1, 2018 17:30
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:remember this is apple's performance number. they also used to claim 500 mhz G4s were fast. cavium is shipping today server chips that win in perf/$ and iirc perf/watt. arm might take a while to eat the HEDT market but apple hasn’t been in that market seriously for a long time now. 3-4 years, maybe 5, and there will be arm chips that beat intels laptop offerings ps I am v suspicious of geekbenchs numbers. using something easy to extract ilp from and not representative of app performance I bet.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:58
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:remember this is apple's performance number. they also used to claim 500 mhz G4s were fast. the apple chip is 7nm tsmc vs intel 14nm++, that's going to close the gap a lot
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Nov 1, 2018 21:39
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macOS with Vulcan and egpu virtual machine passthrough. mmmm
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Nov 1, 2018 23:48
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:remember this is apple's performance number. they also used to claim 500 mhz G4s were fast. a 500 g4 running os9 or 10.3 flies, it wasn't until the g5 and powerbook g4 al (a joke) that the gap widened to a comical degree
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Nov 1, 2018 23:50
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Perplx posted:the apple chip is 7nm tsmc vs intel 14nm++, that's going to close the gap a lot 7nm tsmc is comparable in density to intel 10nm 7nm tsmc is comparable in clock rates to intel 14nm
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Nov 2, 2018 02:36
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:cavium is shipping today server chips that win in perf/$ and iirc perf/watt. arm might take a while to eat the HEDT market but apple hasn’t been in that market seriously for a long time now. 3-4 years, maybe 5, and there will be arm chips that beat intels laptop offerings “perf/$” is more commonly known as “price.” market trailers offer lower prices than market leaders, because they have to perf/watt is kind of a complex topic in a data center environment and I can’t manage that one in a phone post
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Nov 2, 2018 02:37
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intel 10nm is dead
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Nov 2, 2018 02:38
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:intel 10nm is dead maybe
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Nov 2, 2018 02:46
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:7nm tsmc is comparable in density to intel 10nm someone help me articulate to the little apple fanboy poo poo at work that no, we all wont switch to ipads next year for our actual computing workflows
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Nov 2, 2018 02:58
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actually we will
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Nov 2, 2018 03:04
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pram posted:actually we will gently caress
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Nov 2, 2018 03:05
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ok now i'm not on a phone and i can actually manage the perf/watt issue in a datacenter context
conversely, if you have 50% of haswell x86 single thread performance, you can offer 300% greater density, and not a soul alive gives a poo poo. because they can't replace the existing gear in-place. you're offering a weird, special-purpose chip that nobody wanted cavium has been firmly in that category for a long time the performance is ok unless you wanted to upgrade some actually-existing piece of hardware in your current datacenter Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 05:07
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sure I get that caviums stuff is niche (though thanks for explaining exactly why) but what I was trying to say is that arm keeps getting better. the single-thread performance is no longer laughable and I believe it’s likely within a few generations that apples arm cores will outperform intel in a laptop power envelope, and I think they’re working hard on it. better perf due to proprietary hardware is differentiation that dell and Lenovo can’t rip off
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Nov 2, 2018 07:05
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:sure I get that caviums stuff is niche (though thanks for explaining exactly why) but what I was trying to say is that arm keeps getting better. the single-thread performance is no longer laughable and I believe it’s likely within a few generations that apples arm cores will outperform intel in a laptop power envelope, and I think they’re working hard on it. better perf due to proprietary hardware is differentiation that dell and Lenovo can’t rip off that is the joke — “In a laptop power envelope” can mean anything, depending on how harshly you limit the user there is nothing intrinsic that makes ARM good. no magic there. it would be pretty hard for a cellphone vendor with a small semiconductor team to rival AMD, to say nothing of the performance Titans, year in and year out — IBM and Intel.
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Nov 2, 2018 07:27
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wait a second is that why Apple artificially limited the 2018 air to 5w. did they design it around a theoretical 5w arm processor
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Nov 2, 2018 10:12
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SRQ posted:wait a second is that why Apple artificially limited the 2018 air to 5w. 
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Nov 2, 2018 10:16
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in some ways the stock arm cores are more impressive than the apple CPUs, because they’re close to competitive while having way lower area. like on die shot comparisons they’re sometimes like half the size at iso process
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Nov 2, 2018 16:17
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DuckConference posted:in some ways the stock arm cores are more impressive than the apple CPUs, because they’re close to competitive while having way lower area. like on die shot comparisons they’re sometimes like half the size at iso process in general one should remember that there is a certain level of getting what one pays for, the apple a12 has 6.9 billion transistors to a snapdragon 845 with 5.3 billion (i believe these are both estimates from die shots + averages of the processes, so a grain of salt should be added), and the latter implements the modem within that envelope (where apple uses a separate chip) still really apples to apples to compare performance, but it is not like apple is applying some truly unheard-of magic to their stuff
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Nov 2, 2018 16:42
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:that is the joke — “In a laptop power envelope” can mean anything, depending on how harshly you limit the user i mean the power range apple builds laptops for which is approximtely 5 to 50 watts. especially if TSMC or Samsung manage to develop and maintain a process lead over intel
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Nov 3, 2018 03:13
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:i mean the power range apple builds laptops for which is approximtely 5 to 50 watts. especially if TSMC or Samsung manage to develop and maintain a process lead over intel all laptop chips combined are a pitiful amount of money developing and maintaining a process lead over the industry leader for forty years is the biggest “if” I’ve ever heard. I might be a pork magnate is pigs flew out of my rear end, but they don’t.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:18
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:all laptop chips combined are a pitiful amount of money im not suggesting that intel is going anywhere. just i think theres a good chance osx will have an arm release within 3-4 years
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Nov 3, 2018 03:22
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