|
Reiterpallasch posted:serious question: have you ever actually played rogue I've probably put 100+ hours into Nethack and about 500 hours into Binding of Isaac. I think a better comparison to Palace of the Dead would be something like Binding of Isaac or Spelunky. Nethack is a slower, methodical game. Binding of Isaac, like Palace of the Dead, is a faster pace, more rules lite roguelike. Zero The Hero posted:Roguelikes may make heavy use of RNG, but they're usually fair. I think people are primarily complaining because they feel the randomness is unfair, not that it's random at all. There are plenty of runs I've had in Binding of Isaac where the game basically says "gently caress you. here have a lovely item and i'm going to throw the most annoying fuckoff enemies in this room. Try again another run." All in all, I think Palace of the Dead is a good proof of concept. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it is a great foundational base to be expanded on. And furthermore, it's loving mind-blowing to me that this is just a piece of side content in another game. Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 20, 2016 |
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 16:19 |
|
|
Mordiceius posted:There are plenty of runs I've had in Binding of Isaac where the game basically says "gently caress you. here have a lovely item and i'm going to throw the most annoying fuckoff enemies in this room. Try again another run." This probably sounds nitpicky, but Binding of Isaac is not a roguelike. It's very heavily influenced by roguelikes, but for many reasons, including the one you mentioned, it doesn't really qualify. The term "roguelike-like" is what's most often used to describe games like that, if you can stomach such a term. I have difficulty with it myself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
it's worth noting that arguments over what counts as a roguelike are basically the electrified rail of Games threads for a reason but moreso than the aetherpool rng, the big reason i don't think of palace of the dead as a roguelike is that it lets you carry over your equipment progression in between runs; not just as an optional baby mode or whatever but as a default which you are expected to take advantage of
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Reiterpallasch posted:the electrified rail of Games threads If only 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Zero The Hero posted:This probably sounds nitpicky, but Binding of Isaac is not a roguelike. It's very heavily influenced by roguelikes, but for many reasons, including the one you mentioned, it doesn't really qualify. The term "roguelike-like" is what's most often used to describe games like that, if you can stomach such a term. I have difficulty with it myself. The term "roguelike" in a modern context means more than "games that are Rogue knockoffs" and "Nethack". The meanings of words can evolve and change over time. Binding of Isaac is a "roguelike" in that elements Rogue and Nethack are in it's DNA. Binding of Isaac is also a far better comparison to Palace of the Dead than Nethack.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Reiterpallasch posted:it's worth noting that arguments over what counts as a roguelike are basically the electrified rail of Games threads for a reason It's also worth noting that there's a set of rules called the Berlin Interpretation that outlines roguelike criteria. I realize a lot of the people in this topic were just saying that PotD is influenced by roguelikes, I just don't want people to assume the entire genre is just a magnified version of their worst Rogue Legacy experiences.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
But would you say that PotD is the dark souls of roguelikes
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
I think one meaningful change would just to be allow people to repeat any set of floors they've already completed on that save file. Finished floor 40? Let someone go replay 11-20 if they want. Instead of having the options for each save file be "Play" and "Reset" have it be "Play" "Reset" and "Select Floor"
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:But would you say that PotD is the dark souls of roguelikes This is the Dark Souls of FF14 discussions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:But would you say that PotD is the dark souls of roguelikes The Citizen Kane of dungeon crawlers, imo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
How long will it take me to get one of those big dumb glowy weapons
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
Liver Disaster posted:The Citizen Kane of dungeon crawlers, imo. It's the Soul Plane of the Mystery Dungeon series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:How long will it take me to get one of those big dumb glowy weapons It's about 3-4 hours to complete PotD, but not sure how long it takes to get +30 weapon. A lot will be based off your luck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Zero The Hero posted:It's the Soul Plane of the Mystery Dungeon series. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:58
|
|
|
i like palace of the dead. my main complaint seems to be what other people are complaining about, which is that the silver chest rng is a little overdone. it's not unlikely to go a few floors without seeing a silver chest, and when you do see one, it might blow up in your face. if it doesn't blow up in your face, it might still decide to not give you an upgrade even if you're on a suitable floor. this content is a lot of about mitigating bad rng with the items you get, but i feel like even with pomanders of affluence & fortune, getting screwed wrt upgrades is still pretty likely. there should definitely be a way to get at least 1 or 2 guaranteed upgrades every set of 10 floors. in response to the fact that they straight out prevent you from going on if your gear score is too low: i don't like it, but it's way better than the alternative of letting you in and putting you into a drawn out slog of an unwinnable situation. with the way this game is designed, there's too much unavoidable damage and enemies that enrage to let you in when you're so drastically undergeared and have no realistic way of getting through. even with better gear, people are having a really hard time soloing. im not really interested in the weapons so imma just see what soloing is like when im 30/30. e: i also really like that potd grinding doesn't gently caress with your gear durability. i don't know why it's such a big deal for me but i luv it. Klewer fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:58
|
|
|
The most jarring thing about PotD was having the duty immediately fail when everyone is dead. I'm so used to either having to homepoint or the instance resetting that just getting the book was kind of a shock the first (of many) times a party wiped due to Rapture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 18:59
|
|
|
deep dungeon more like deep sleep dungeon cause it's so fuckin boring
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
I have no idea what I said, but I'm proud of it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Zero The Hero posted:The term "roguelike-like" is what's most often used to describe games like that, if you can stomach such a term. I have difficulty with it myself. "Roguelite" is a good alternative for written conversations.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
I'll probably go for the scholar book for my alt scholar (but only because its secondaries are a shitload better than the Nidhogg book), but after that just get back to 30/30 and stay there until such time (if ever) as they revise silver chest mechanics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Zero The Hero posted:You don't sound like you've beaten any roguelikes, to be honest. I play a lot of Nethack. There are some few situations that really do just come down to bad luck, but the vast majority of games are winnable. Of my hundreds of deaths, I'd say the ones that were unpreventable to a more talented player wouldn't even hit double digits I've beaten a few, the latest being FTL. I should point out that random number generators absolutely hate me, so when you say "just comes down to bad luck" that poo poo happens to me in 80% of all runs. Some say FTL is easy, they should play it on my laptop that rolls you *zero* items/companions that would be useful to have right now. Yes, these 7 heavy ions are super useful for actually destroying the last boss, thanks game! Not just in roguelikes either. Statistically, it shouldn't be possible for me to *always* roll like poo poo on loot I really want, but let me tell you about farming for primal horses/orchestrion rolls. If there's 8 people in the group and I get the thing 7th it's already cause for celebration. Of course I got the garuda mount, the thing I have zero interest in, on my first roll ever while helping random goons clear it, back when the drop rate was still like 5% or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
It'd be nice if ever 5th floor had a guarantee upgrade of whichever piece is lower for you. So you'll get silver chests along the way, but the 5th and 10th floor of every run has a guarantee. Also, add more miniboss. And secret rooms! Add secret rooms! And teleporters. I want to get teleported away from my party into a room full of enemies and instagibbed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:And teleporters. I want to get teleported away from my party into a room full of enemies and instagibbed. This is called being a DPS who runs ahead of the group. Be your own teleporter~
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
Two words: Puzzle. Rooms.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:It'd be nice if ever 5th floor had a guarantee upgrade of whichever piece is lower for you. So you'll get silver chests along the way, but the 5th and 10th floor of every run has a guarantee. I'm starting to lose track of where you're seriousposting and where you're not So I got through 31-40 yesterday, ending at +11/+14, and can't do 41-50 as a result (I gather from FC that I need to be at least +12 in both). So I have to start a second file. Can I actually get upgrades to my aetherpool in the first 30 or so floors or am I going to have to slog through those and do 31-40 and pray for RNG to be nice enough to let me do 41-50?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
People ITT claiming roguelikes aren't the very soul of RNG.  This is an MMO, there's only so "roguelike" the dungeon can get - but for the first draft, I think it's good fun and captures the "rng/exploration" feel nicely. It's a good foundation to build on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Two words: Puzzle. Rooms. Gonna send me into convulsions remembering Nyzul lamps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
Vil posted:This effect was probably magnified by timing since yesterday was patch day and people are probably far more busy doing Palace of the Dead or getting back into their Bis/Rav/Thor bird farms, than they are with running usual stuff like trial roulettes, so there's that much more difficulty in finding people in the first place, let alone people joining in progress. I was trying to do a PF Nidhogg farm and we couldn't even find a DPS to fill the last slot, that's how disinterested in regular content people were yesterday.  So, can anyone tell me what the gently caress happened to gathering? Why's there only packs of two gathering nodes, each 300 meters apart spread all over the drat map? Please tell me that's only in western coerthas because that is obnoxious as poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
It's a fine "foundation" but it's ultimately a shitload of do-nothing trash mobs followed by a boss you probably vaporize by throwing pompoms around. It's boring, which is annoying because the EXP is quite good and there's a floaty head mount I probably want.HenryEx posted:Full disclosure: I posted my experience a little late. That actually happened on the day before the patch hit. Nope! Don't gather until you can fly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:15
|
|
|
Bleu posted:a shitload of do-nothing trash mobs followed by a boss you probably vaporize mmodungeons.txt
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
Bleu posted:Nope! Don't gather until you can fly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
All I've gotten over the past day or so is that POTD is insufficiently like Chocobo's Dungeon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
jyrque posted:You're referring to the palace? Yeah I know dude I posted about the exp you get outside after the boss fights. I meant the guy complaining about full clears in low level dungeons
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
SwissArmyDruid posted:All I've gotten over the past day or so is that POTD is insufficiently like Chocobo's Dungeon. yoshi.p plz add Ultros as a boss fight and a cool tank for Cid to drive
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
I would love some random minibosses, similar to in Aquapolis when a minotaur might show up. Minotaurs already are in POTD, but more of them would be cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
Is it me or are some monster models in PotD brand spanking new? I'd swear up and down I haven't seen a couple of those before at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
20-30 is the rouge-like section, the other floors are different colors.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
I have flight (in that area) and it's still the most obnoxious thing. Not only can't you sprint between nodes anymore when it's off cooldown to avoid the mount summon/desummon, i don't really enjoy having to use the "where's the next node" skill EVERY TIME after two nodes. ARR gathering was a sort of zen relaxing circle walk of swish and clanks, something to do while watching Game of Thrones or whatever on the other side of the screen, paying attention with one eye to where you walk. The flight quasi-requirement and the distance change has me pretty close to just dropping Gathering entirely. A shame, since my second, third and fourth class at max level in ARR were gatherers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
Why are you hitting the nodes in all the areas?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 16:19 |
|
|
Your Dead Gay Son posted:Yeah I know dude I posted about the exp you get outside after the boss fights. I meant the guy complaining about full clears in low level dungeons Gotcha dude 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2016 21:04
|
|
