|
Seoinin posted:So if you strip the insufferable dumbshit out of Jake, what are you left with exactly? An insufferable dumbshit. The healing is so thorough that he sublimates right past "interesting character with some hangups but not so many that we hate him" and directly into full blown mary sue. So basically what he appeared to be at the start before we got to know the snivelling bastard, with a toned-down side of trickster-Jake.
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:09 |
|
|
This is why Jake is the worst character. I don't care how much emotional anguish you're going through, you do NOT turn down sloppy alien makeouts under any circumstance, and you especially do not flip your poo poo over it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:46
|
|
|
Oh, Aranea, you're making me go "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT" and "HAHAHA, YES" at the same time. It's just like Vriska's back in action. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
Yonic Symbolism posted:I'm not going back to check but I think Aranea said "brain" somewhere when she was talking about fixing him, but anyway it sounded like she was talking about brain problems. uggh why did I spend so much time on this piece of poo poo gently caress  edit: vvv 
Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Sep 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
Prison Warden posted:uggh why did I spend so much time on this piece of poo poo gently caress You missed a spot.  Hooray Nedroid Edit: And you fixed it, drat. I mean, uh... good! Great. That's... awesome for you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
Some very blatant parallels being drawn here between Vriska/Tavros and Aranea/Jake. - Serket / Page pairing - Flirting, lifting, dropping - Forcing actions upon the page and declaring them "good for them" / "doing them a favor" - Shortcutting personal development in the name of expediency - The Page having disabilities (Tavros was physically crippled, Jake is mentally crippled) - This all being part of a big Plan Iny posted:Yeah, I'm concerned that this will just magically "fix Jake". Yeah, see, I don't think will go any better for Jake than it did for Tavros. We've seen over and over that the emotional development of the characters is the real important thing. Shortcutting that will only make things worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:55
|
|
Hopefully we get to go into it in more detail?
|
Fister Roboto posted:This is why Jake is the worst character. I don't care how much emotional anguish you're going through, you do NOT turn down sloppy alien makeouts under any circumstance, and you especially do not flip your poo poo over it. How many animes are there where the protagonist is literally Jake? Inexplicably attractive to everyone, yet voluntarily gets nowhere for nebulously defined reasons; a good 50% of his screentime features our fella running away from yet another sexually charged encounter because faaaaaaartz I don't know the answer and honestly I don't want to; it is a rhetorical device to indicate the fact that Homestuck, and Jake in particular, continues to be The Anime.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 05:59
|
|
|
I don't think it's quite the same kettle of fish as Terezi's situation, if Jake has actual, legitimate cognitive impairment from what I assume is the laundry list of head trauma he's suffered. You can't exactly character-develop yourself into recovering from traumatic brain injuries. I mean, I don't think we have any reason to think Aranea is lying. She doesn't have the power to rewrite people to her whims, she just heals people. Either Jake's cognitive state is going to improve because he was literally cognitively impaired, or Jake continues to just be The Biggest Anime Protagonist because he's naturally a dope, or possibly both. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Sep 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
We all have a million little traumas and brain problems. It's part of being Aranea's going to find out why rewriting that much of somebody's head is a bad idea.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Yonic Symbolism posted:Really, Jake has not had nearly as much trauma as any of the other characters in the entire comic let alone his circle of friends so I doubt that's whats going on. You mean besides Dirk sending a robot to grope and molest him into "opening up" to the idea of going out with a guy (i.e. Dirk), Dirk himself forcing him into an unwanted relationship and generally being a creepy stalker, brainwashed Jane literally threatening to rape him (in the "I am going to gently caress you whether you want it or not" sense), and then someone showing up out of nowhere and trying to force a kiss on him? Yes, if you discount all those things and such, Jake has not had too much trauma. Seriously, there's a reason why Jake was flipping out here. Speaking as someone who knows people who've been victims of stalkers and abuse and worse, it's really creepy how much of it was heaped on one character in the comic (though at least it seems to be acknowledging how terrible all that stuff is), and really, really unpleasant to see so many people blaming the victim for all that and talking about how terrible he is for not coping with it. This is loving awful to read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Welp, good to see Aranea and Jake's relationship will turn out as well as Vriska/John and Vriska/Tavros. Serkets all the way down!  I know Aranea's blurry leave me alone. Looper fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Sep 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:19
|
|
|
Personally I don't think Jake is in the wrong for freaking out. I'm just pissy because this whole Aranea is Turning Evil subplot is teetering between "not hugely interesting" and "actually pretty stupid and unnecessary" in my mind. It's like, hey mang - remember that thing where a Serket fucks up large? The thing that has currently happened twice already? Well get ready for the shameless cash-in threequel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
I dunno, having a Serket gently caress up isn't the most repetitive thing (How many character introduction screens have we staggered into? 20?) but It really just seems to me like every character in this comic fucks up large.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:45
|
|
|
Ice_Mallet posted:I dunno, having a Serket gently caress up isn't the most repetitive thing (How many character introduction screens have we staggered into? 20?) but It really just seems to me like every character in this comic fucks up large. Especially that orange guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:46
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:Yeah, see, I don't think will go any better for Jake than it did for Tavros. We've seen over and over that the emotional development of the characters is the real important thing. Shortcutting that will only make things worse. Yep. By "fixing" Jake's issues now and not giving him time to grow as a person (which seems to be what Sburb normally intends to happen), Aranea is granting potentially unlimited make-poo poo-real powers to a guileless, weak-willed loser. Either that or she'll cause him to become an all-powerful shithead who is dangerously sane and willful, because we all know that Jake isn't magically going to become a cool dude here. This could be the Worst Possible Thing that Aranea could ever hope to do. Thundarr fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Sep 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:53
|
|
|
"I AM A MAN" Arguable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 06:58
|
|
|
Thundarr posted:Yep. By "fixing" Jake's issues now and not giving him time to grow as a person (which seems to be what Sburb normally intends to happen), Aranea is granting potentially unlimited make-poo poo-real powers to a guileless, weak-willed loser. Either that or she'll make him not be a shithead who is dangerously sane and willful, because we all know that Jake isn't magically going to become a cool dude here. I'm sort of becoming hazier and hazier these days on how the idea that characters need to grow on their own jives with the simple fact that no one in this comic is allowed any loving agency. Even when a character does act, it's because they're probably being jerked around by the multitude of absentee villains in the comic. Aranea might be the first character in a while that is doing something of her own accord, without it being part of someone else's long con. Too bad she's only interesting as part of a double act with Meenah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 07:01
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:You mean besides Dirk sending a robot to grope and molest him into "opening up" to the idea of going out with a guy (i.e. Dirk), Dirk himself forcing him into an unwanted relationship and generally being a creepy stalker, brainwashed Jane literally threatening to rape him (in the "I am going to gently caress you whether you want it or not" sense), and then someone showing up out of nowhere and trying to force a kiss on him? Yes, if you discount all those things and such, Jake has not had too much trauma. He's also had trauma as in, like, actual head trauma. Repeated, severe blows to the head. I recall the thread discussing whether or not he had legitimate brain damage just from the on-screen head trauma he's received. I still find the concept of him 'growing as a person' as a way to fix that kind of farfetched. Considering he's grown absolutely zero at any point at which we've seen him, maybe this is the catalyst that starts his character development.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 07:06
|
|
|
He's the best worst guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 07:09
|
|
|
Fact is, Serket or not he really doesn't have time to grow as a person, any more than the b1 kids did (during their session) John and his friends went through all that poo poo in a day and decompress/develop over the next three years. Right now, they're in a clusterfuck that's going to be a perfect storm once all the Jacks show up. Know who had all the time in the world for character development? The Beforans up to the point they lost everything and had to commit mass-suicide to escape oblivion. The world is not going to wait for a player to find himself or develop her character, especially with the clock these kids are put on. We will see soon enough what the results of this will be, but if any of you are doctors, don't wait for my consent to cure my memory loss. Huh, I wonder what Jake might remember with his memory loss being a big deal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 07:10
|
|
|
Jake's concussions are probably going to be the smaller part of this "healing." I mean, sure, improving his ability to make basic inferences will certainly make him easier to deal with, and let's not forget that Jade's grandpa was the one who taught her science. But the core trauma that has influenced Jake's personality isn't all the manipulation, objectification, and sudden betrayal he's had to undergo recently (traumatic though that has been), but the oldest one we've seen - the sudden murder of his grandma. One minute everything's great, and the next he's burying her remains to keep the monsters from eating her, with no recourse but to live alone on monster island for what he presumed would the rest of his drastically shortened life. To say that gave him an escapist streak would be an understatement - he believes in anything that tells him that bad things happen for a reason, that the world makes sense, because to him, the world does not make sense. If he acts dim, it's less because of the concussions (though those are certainly a factor) and more because logic is futile in a world where everything you think you can depend on can be snatched away in an instant without warning. So yeah, we'll get a Jake who's able to apply his powers or even just be aware of their specific possibilities. But we'll also get a Jake who no longer sees the value in acting like a hero or feigning courage. And if the power of a Page of Hope is anything like what it's cracked up to be, that's very worrisome.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
Seoinin posted:So if you strip the insufferable dumbshit out of Jake, what are you left with exactly? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 10:17
|
|
|
My guess is the healing will have some side benefits that Jake needed, like curing any head injuries, but there will be consequences that will require him to grow on his own to overcome. Also on the topic of constant unwanted advances, people have previously compared Jake to the ditzy token female action girl (complete with booty shorts), which is an interesting take in situations like this. Same thing with the male anime protagonist thing. Suffice to say I don't think anyone's supposed to envy Jake's position here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 13:55
|
|
|
I wonder if the Page outfit sprouts a pair of pants once the Page reaches his potential.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 15:20
|
|
|
Booty shorts, thigh-strap holsters, love of adventure and delving into ruins and suchlike. If Jake does overcome his shortcomings he'll basically be Larry Croft, Tomb Raider.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 15:38
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:I am wondering if the level of meta would ever get high enough that a site outage would be used as a story point. Lead out in cuffs posted:I'm half expecting Jake English to somehow become Lord English (despite all the evidence suggesting LE is actually an instantiated Caliborn). " The 'healing' shatters his mind. Grasping for something, it takes the only part of his mind still intact. Thoughts and ideas about Lord English, along with what little remains of himself. And he hopes to return to normal. But Jake English is no longer there. And so English's mind attempts to 'normalize' things, the only way it can now: Turn him into a Lord English. " Kind of lovely, but oh well. And it might result in an English/English fight. Or both Lord English's merge. Or both. Or Jake gets healed, is still messed up as a person, just without the head trauma. Possibly with some emotional trauma healing, depending on how it ends up working. But realizes that, and starts working to fix that. Starting with him telling Aranea off. And refusing to go along with the plan. Not for it being stupid, but him realizing Aranea is kind of being a terrible person. Sort of mirroring how John now thinks of Vriska.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 17:09
|
|
|
Kgummy posted:
This is my other guess. That either this doesn't work as intended at all, or that it works perfectly and in doing so gives Jake the confidence and the bones to tell Aranea to gently caress off. Bonus points if new found hope powers are used to wish Aranea away.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:I am wondering if the level of meta would ever get high enough that a site outage would be used as a story point. Well, Aranea did just try to fix the broken page. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 18:04
|
|
|
Seoinin posted:I'm sort of becoming hazier and hazier these days on how the idea that characters need to grow on their own jives with the simple fact that no one in this comic is allowed any loving agency. Even when a character does act, it's because they're probably being jerked around by the multitude of absentee villains in the comic. Aranea might be the first character in a while that is doing something of her own accord, without it being part of someone else's long con. Well, the fight against inevitability is one of the, if not the main theme of the whole thing. Resolving the riddle for good will be how the comic ends, I'd bet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 18:16
|
|
|
I don't know how anyone can see this "healing" turning out well. I mean hell, she basically apologizes for what she is about to do with the whole "It is nothing personal. There is simply no altern8tive.". I personally believe that this will end with Jake being fixed of all of his shortcomings, making him the single most boring character in the comic; a Mary Sue.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:04
|
|
|
Maybe he'll just be a Trickster again, because that's basically what the Tricksters were, no?
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:14
|
|
|
Hope it's not that. As gratifying as it would be to see Aranea's plan fall apart so spectacularly and quickly, I just don't think I could handle the return of Trickster Mode.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
I want Aranea to kiss me. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
The Ultimate Koos posted:I want Aranea to kiss me. Better put on those hot pants and get some of those brain damages then, Koos m'boy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:51
|
|
|
Popo posted:Better put on those hot pants and get some of those brain damages then, Koos m'boy. He's halfway there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
Freudian posted:He's halfway there. Now he just needs to become a fictional character in a webcomic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
AriadneThread posted:Now he just needs to become a fictional character in a webcomic. I'm surprised he didn't buy a fantroll!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:I'm surprised he didn't buy a fantroll! And shell out the extra dough to make it the most important character in Homestuck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:14
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:I'm surprised he didn't buy a fantroll! Yeah koos, you really dropped the matriorb there. Sometimes I doubt your dedication to this comic, I'm sorry to say it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:09 |
|
|
I saw 8 new posts and I thought, oh boy, it must have updated. Even better, it was a Koosdate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 20:24
|
|
