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BigRed0427 posted:The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible? Debate and Drumsticks › Tech Nightmares: Accidentally Malicious Main Paineframe posted:They weren't completely locked out. The key still worked. But since they could unlock the car via the Tesla app, many owners stopped bothering to carry their physical keys around, since they already had something in their pocket that could unlock the car. Yeah, this all sounds way cooler and far more convenient than having to just put a key in the door to unlock and start my car and having to keep a spare set around. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 02:12
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Doggles posted:Tesla's servers don't even need to go down for this to be a problem. Hope you never pull over in a place with no cell reception. This is an extremely dangerous place to get locked out of your car.
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Nov 21, 2021 02:46
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Sodomy Hussein posted:This is an extremely dangerous place to get locked out of your car. Yeah a missing pair of keys in the wilderness is no joke. After it basically happened to me in college, I kept a spare key maglocked under my bumper.
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Nov 21, 2021 02:52
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CommieGIR posted:Everyone wants every little device connected for convenience, and then is suppressed that doing so might set themselves up for heartache when their provider either terminates their always-connected device or fails to uphold their nine nine's service level agreement. Like the $15,000 coffee maker that required server access to operate. When the company folded, all the places that bought it were left with a $15 paper weight.
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Nov 21, 2021 03:01
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BiggerBoat posted:Debate and Drumsticks › Tech Nightmares: Accidentally Malicious Most car keys these days are contactless. You just need to be carrying them to work. The difference from the Tesla version is that this does not rely on an external server and functioning internet connection.
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Nov 21, 2021 03:07
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Like the $15,000 coffee maker that required server access to operate. When the company folded, all the places that bought it were left with a $15 paper weight. lol, i hate love snobby coffee/tea culture poo poo like that. like I get having a nice looking way to combine your plant matter and water, but come on.
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Nov 21, 2021 03:59
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The Lone Badger posted:Most car keys these days are contactless. You just need to be carrying them to work. Tesla has those too, you get 2 with your car and a fob depending on the model, and they sell them in the form of a ring and also you can store them in phones that let you do rfid phone storage, you get a lot of options, not just the app.
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Nov 21, 2021 04:57
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Tesla offered cell unlock/start for some reason (I can't think of any reason why this would ever be useful). Some idiots decided that (1) they would always have cell coverage, (2) their phones would always have battery, (3) and Tesla's IT would never break, so they didn't need to carry their actual car keys anymore. It's a stupid feature for a car to have, but the people who relied on it are also dumb
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Nov 21, 2021 06:59
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Foxfire_ posted:Tesla offered cell unlock/start for some reason (I can't think of any reason why this would ever be useful). Some idiots decided that (1) they would always have cell coverage, (2) their phones would always have battery, (3) and Tesla's IT would never break, so they didn't need to carry their actual car keys anymore. It's a stupid feature for a car to have, but the people who relied on it are also dumb Like the story made clear it was (1) that the driver wasn't aware of, which makes sense because it's bonkers.
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Nov 21, 2021 07:02
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Like, I get that smartphones are really handy and pretty much everyone's most important personal possession nowadays, but attaching literally everything you own and use to one thing has always been a recipe for disaster.
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Nov 21, 2021 07:26
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Another example of a lovely company dictating how you use the things you buy, and pulling scammy poo poo to force more sales or replacements: https://www.pcmag.com/news/canon-sued-for-disabling-scanner-function-on-all-in-one-printers-due-to quote:Canon says it disables scan and fax functionality as a precaution to prevent damage. Sounds like Apple's excuse about security/damage quote:Canon is facing a lawsuit that could force it to change how its all-in-one printers react to running out of ink.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:20
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Everyone's laughing at Tesla for being dumb, and they are, but it's actually a problem with a lot of cars. I've personally experienced this, and I've watched other people go through it: how do you open your keyless-start car when the battery dies? The answer is: yes, there's almost always a way to do it. The details on that way are conveniently located in the manual which is locked inside your car, and there's no standard as to how to do it. Now that it's happened to me once, it's actually really easy albeit annoying in my car (fun fact: you can't do it without setting the car alarm off! For... reasons!), but the first time I definitely had to look it up online and I would've been poo poo out of luck if I were in the middle of nowhere instead of at work. Fun fact: none of my car enthusiast coworkers knew what to do either, we all had one or two pieces of the puzzle but were missing crucial steps. So, definitely do laugh at Tesla and Tesla owners, but if you don't unlock and start your car with a key on a regular basis... learn you what to do when the fob stops working now, so you'll be prepared. This should be covered during the dealer delivery process if you buy from a dealer (it was not, in my case, but anyway...) but now that keyless start is no longer particularly novel, it's also important to know if you rent a car, if you buy a used car, etc.
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Nov 22, 2021 23:11
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My fallback plan is to stick the key in the keyhole and turn it to open the door.
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Nov 22, 2021 23:20
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And then hold the fob up to the push button until something happens.
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Nov 22, 2021 23:22
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PT6A posted:how do you open your keyless-start car when the battery dies? I've only had 2 cars with it, but both have a pretty obvious key in the dongle and there's a keyhole in the door. The Tesla door handle design fuckups are completely egregious. Having said that, my current car does have an electronic hood release which doesn't work with a dead 12v battery, which is under the hood. Great job guys. I keep a starter pack in the trunk in case I need to power up the system in case that happens.
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Nov 22, 2021 23:50
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knox_harrington posted:I've only had 2 cars with it, but both have a pretty obvious key in the dongle and there's a keyhole in the door. The Tesla door handle design fuckups are completely egregious. Can the trunk be opened without power though?
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Nov 23, 2021 00:04
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knox_harrington posted:I've only had 2 cars with it, but both have a pretty obvious key in the dongle and there's a keyhole in the door. The Tesla door handle design fuckups are completely egregious. The key in the doohickey on mine is not obvious but you'd probably find it eventually. That said I can't imagine how you would purchase a car and never ask yourself where the actual physical key to unlock it is. Volmarias posted:Can the trunk be opened without power though? Pretty sure they all can be by law as long as you're willing to crawl in through the back seat which you can't fold down because the release lever is in the trunk that you can't unlock without power.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:06
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Wallet posted:Pretty sure they all can be by law as long as you're willing to crawl in through the back seat which you can't fold down because the release lever is in the trunk that you can't unlock without power. From the outside, I meant, since opening the trunk is apparently required to open the hood.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:12
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knox_harrington posted:
What do you do with the the power pack if you can’t pop the hood? My car is from the 2000s, do they put some kind of emergency terminals in the cabin or trunk now?
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Nov 23, 2021 00:33
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withak posted:What do you do with the the power pack if you can’t pop the hood? My car is from the 2000s, do they put some kind of emergency terminals in the cabin or trunk now? My last car (an 05) and my current car both have the battery in the trunk and remote terminals under the hood. Never heard of the reverse though.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:37
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Kaal posted:Yeah a missing pair of keys in the wilderness is no joke. After it basically happened to me in college, I kept a spare key maglocked under my bumper. That guy got caught out in January which means he's fine, it's relatively pleasant and there's a road back. In the summer it gets to 115 now, and it's a desert where you can easily end up miles from shelter, with little vehicle traffic because it's not really the season to visit Red Rock unless you're trying to pick a fist-fight with the sun.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:39
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And here I am with my battery under the hood like a caveman.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:39
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poo poo, I have a key hole on the outside of my car AND the inside. Who am I, James Dean?
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Nov 23, 2021 00:54
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My buddy's car, you need to pull a key out of the fob, use that to unlock a panel, then pull that loose and insert the key to open the door, then pull apart the center console where you place the fob to start the engine
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Nov 23, 2021 01:30
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Wallet posted:My last car (an 05) and my current car both have the battery in the trunk and remote terminals under the hood. Never heard of the reverse though. My current car has the battery in the trunk. And I thought it was stupid till I had to replace the battery. Then I realized I was loving wrong.
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Nov 23, 2021 04:25
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withak posted:What do you do with the the power pack if you can’t pop the hood? My car is from the 2000s, do they put some kind of emergency terminals in the cabin or trunk now? There's a pop out positive terminal in the driver's footwell, and negative attaches to the door hinge / any bare metal. I also have a ODB2 adapter that I think should work but am not 100% as there may be a relay preventing it powering up. To get into the trunk will be a case of folding the back seats down and crawling in. I've not had a flat battery but some owners have reported it and I just want to be prepared! 
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Nov 23, 2021 04:37
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PT6A posted:Everyone's laughing at Tesla for being dumb, and they are, but it's actually a problem with a lot of cars. I've personally experienced this, and I've watched other people go through it: how do you open your keyless-start car when the battery dies? Sorry, but I drive in cars made by sane people, so: withak posted:My fallback plan is to stick the key in the keyhole and turn it to open the door. hobbesmaster posted:And then hold the fob up to the push button until something happens. Also, when you got your car, did you not at least leaf through the manual for interesting information like wtf to do if the fob battery dies?
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Nov 23, 2021 08:35
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When I bought my car that has keyless ignition the sales rep showed me how to open up the fob to use the key embedded in it
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Nov 23, 2021 08:47
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There's actually a street near where I grew up that is/was a radio remote black hole. I parked there one day with my otherwise fine car, couldn't get the remote to work so I just used the key to lock the car (which in turn arms the alarm), but when I came back it would not disarm via remote. I could unlock the doors fine with the key but the immobiliser needed the remote to disarm. One of the store owners saw me struggling and came out to tell me that it happens at least once a week to someone. I eventually got it started using a pin code function involving the ignition positions and a flashing LED. all of that is still way more dependable than a cellular based, phone-home-first type setup in a Tesla.
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Nov 23, 2021 11:00
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Chronojam posted:My buddy's car, you need to pull a key out of the fob, use that to unlock a panel, then pull that loose and insert the key to open the door, then pull apart the center console where you place the fob to start the engine Yeah, exactly. The key itself is obvious, and you might be thinking that the keyhole is also obvious... but you'd be wrong, and there is a definite trick to popping off the cap the covers the keyhole without damaging it. Then, once you get in, there's no actual ignition keyhole. You still have to press the button, then hold the fob to the place where the keyhole would be in a normal car, which works even if the battery is dead. You will have to do this as the alarm is blaring, because once you unlock the car with the physical key, the alarm will go off and will not stop going off until you start the car. Yeah, it's a really stupid design, and yeah, I should've looked it up in the manual before I needed to do it in practice. That's why I'm recommending that people do exactly that, in case they haven't already.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:07
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PT6A posted:Everyone's laughing at Tesla for being dumb, and they are, but it's actually a problem with a lot of cars. I've personally experienced this, and I've watched other people go through it: how do you open your keyless-start car when the battery dies? Even most modern, keyless cars have keyholes in the door handles or alternate ways to open the door. Also: Mechanical linkages to the actual door locks versus Telsa that went full electrical, so if you lose battery and the door is locked, you cannot open it.
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Nov 23, 2021 16:10
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So, NSO group which is an Israeli firm that sold Malware to government and provided Infosec consulting, recently got given the middle finger by the US Government. As a result, Apple has now sued NSO group, and while NSO deserves any flack (their malware has been used to hunt dissidents and reporters), there's some concerning verbiage in the lawsuit: https://twitter.com/OrinKerr/status/1463278878634348546?s=20 Basically: Apple is claiming if you hack their OS, they can sue you, because in their mind they own the OS even when its installed on your phone. Basically, they own your phone no matter what.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:27
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CommieGIR posted:because in their mind they own the OS even when its installed on your phone. Uhhhh...they do. You merely have a license to use it. This is not a new concept in software/OSes.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:54
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Motronic posted:Uhhhh...they do. You merely have a license to use it. This is not a new concept in software/OSes. In the context of how Apple has responded to security people in general: No, I don't they mean "You violated our license". Apple has a history of really sketchy views about Infosec.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:56
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CommieGIR posted:So, NSO group which is an Israeli firm that sold Malware to government and provided Infosec consulting, recently got given the middle finger by the US Government. As a result, Apple has now sued NSO group, and while NSO deserves any flack (their malware has been used to hunt dissidents and reporters), there's some concerning verbiage in the lawsuit: They do retain ownership of the copyright to their software. You are not allowed to commercially sell a derivative work of someone else’s copyrighted software without permission. I think ownership here is used in this meaning?
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Nov 24, 2021 02:57
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https://twitter.com/postingtwink/status/1463707366122266630
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Nov 25, 2021 10:15
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hobbesmaster posted:They do retain ownership of the copyright to their software. You are not allowed to commercially sell a derivative work of someone else’s copyrighted software without permission. I think ownership here is used in this meaning? I can't wait to watch NSO Group argue that it constitutes "fair transformative use"  Then again, people are already going to jail for jailbreaking iphones, sooo v  v
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Nov 25, 2021 10:39
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First you jailbreak your phone. Then you jailbreak yourself. Simple.
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Nov 25, 2021 11:48
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Is this post based on confusing this with the Facebook thing, or is someone actually trying to take a black excellence in technology conferences software down a peg? Take THAT black creators! Your online covid canceled conference replacement software looks bad. Owned!
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Nov 25, 2021 13:40
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Is this post based on confusing this with the Facebook thing, or is someone actually trying to take a black excellence in technology conferences software down a peg? What?
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Nov 25, 2021 13:44
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