2017 NFL Free Agency/Trades - Good news: $109m to spend. Bad news: Browns

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > 2017 NFL Free Agency/Trades - Good news: $109m to spend. Bad news: Browns

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euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Roasted Donut posted:

No poo poo???? wow

someone up above was saying it was because coaches didnt understand how to use him or something.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 02:05

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 20:45

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

I seen the football life, fool

# ? Mar 18, 2017 02:06

But Not Tonight: May 22, 2006; I could show you around the sights.

Blitz7x posted:

I feel like years of playing dynasty warriors and watching the NFL have collided

Pete Carroll is Lui Bei

Derek Carr is Gan Ning

Gan Ning fuckin owns and I am OK with this comparison.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 02:18

warcrimes: Jul 6, 2013; I don't know what's it called, I just know the sound it makes when it takes a J4G's life.

WHOOPS posted:

- If you believe Rhett Ellison's dad, the Vikings have a toxic leadership who made players to practice too hard during the season.
- It could be the unknown offensive identity. While Shurmur was the interim OC, the playbook was still an amalgamation of Norv's old schemes, some WCO stuff with Shurmur and a preference to rely more on the run than they should.
- Or it's just a matter of desired opportunity. With Alshon, we only know he was being offered a higher guarantee after year one of the contract. Considering he settled on a one-year deal, it's possible it just wasn't to his liking and he'd rather try again next year. With Cook, regardless of what he got, he was going to be #2 TE behind Rudolph.

I wouldn't dismiss any of the three as being unlikely.

e: Cook was also a case of having more guaranteed money in his offer, but not a given it was a higher value deal. The total value/incentives package could just have just been the better deal from Oakland, too.

Okay, cool, thanks for the response.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 04:08

DC Murderverse: Nov 10, 2016; "Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

Boosh! posted:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/842807526785662976

JPP is real lucky, not many guys get a contract for more years than they can count on one hand.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 04:47

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

Blitz7x posted:

I feel like years of playing dynasty warriors and watching the NFL have collided

Pete Carroll is Lui Bei

Derek Carr is Gan Ning

I can only think of one coach who banged a kid and that's Sandusky.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 04:55

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Marshawn is due 9 million dollars if he comes back next season. With the Eddie Lacy signing, if he announces his return, the Seahawks are going to be in a hell of a bind. They may not have a choice but to release him. And that might be why we're just now hearing rumors about Lynch wanting to come back. :v:

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:33

warcrimes: Jul 6, 2013; I don't know what's it called, I just know the sound it makes when it takes a J4G's life.

Volkerball posted:

Marshawn is due 9 million dollars if he comes back next season. With the Eddie Lacy signing, if he announces his return, the Seahawks are going to be in a hell of a bind. They may not have a choice but to release him. And that might be why we're just now hearing rumors about Lynch wanting to come back.

They can't release him, it's a huge cap hit.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:34

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

warcrimes posted:

They can't release him, it's a huge cap hit.

5 million. So they'd save 4 million.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:42

WHOOPS: Nov 6, 2009

Where's the $5 million come from? Didn't the Seahawks already eat his prorated salary cap number last year when he was retired?

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:44

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

Volkerball posted:

Marshawn is due 9 million dollars if he comes back next season. With the Eddie Lacy signing, if he announces his return, the Seahawks are going to be in a hell of a bind. They may not have a choice but to release him. And that might be why we're just now hearing rumors about Lynch wanting to come back.

Trade him to Oakland for a piece of paper that says "Brock osweiler lmao"

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:46

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

WHOOPS posted:

Where's the $5 million come from? Didn't the Seahawks already eat his prorated salary cap number last year when he was retired?

He had 12 million guaranteed in his extension prior to the 2015 season. In 2015, the Seahawks put 7 million of that into the signing bonus. According to this, he was due a $5 million signing bonus in 2016, which would carry over into 2017 if he came back. That would count as dead money were he to be released.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/marshawn-lynch-1166/

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:49

WHOOPS: Nov 6, 2009

I don't think that's fully accurate:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/3/6/8163927/marshawn-lynch-seahawks-contract-extension-nfl

between that and the ESPN story, it seems like all that's on the books is his $9m base salary and that isn't guaranteed. It doesn't seem like there's any cap hit to cutting Lynch.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 05:59

Ehud: Sep 19, 2003; football.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/842933177530404864

where are the guys who kept defending that pick

# ? Mar 18, 2017 10:32

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Ehud posted:

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/842933177530404864

where are the guys who kept defending that pick

I thought it was a punchline instantly?

If not then :laffo:

# ? Mar 18, 2017 13:13

Ehud: Sep 19, 2003; football.

sean10mm posted:

I thought it was a punchline instantly?

If not then

Some people were like, "if you could guarantee a kicker who basically never misses inside 40 yards with a 2nd round pick wouldn't you do it?"

# ? Mar 18, 2017 13:18

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

So the seahawks be screwed if he shows up for camp, lol I bet this Raider thing is all a scam. Oaktown always helps its own, scam tech billionaires.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 13:31

Epi Lepi: Oct 29, 2009; You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

Ehud posted:

Some people were like, "if you could guarantee a kicker who basically never misses inside 40 yards with a 2nd round pick wouldn't you do it?"

That was just wandler20 who's a big dumb FSU homer.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 14:46

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Ehud posted:

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/842933177530404864

where are the guys who kept defending that pick

I'll start laughing again when they actually release Aguayo.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 15:00

Sataere: Jul 20, 2005; Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me

WHOOPS posted:

I don't think that's fully accurate:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/3/6/8163927/marshawn-lynch-seahawks-contract-extension-nfl

between that and the ESPN story, it seems like all that's on the books is his $9m base salary and that isn't guaranteed. It doesn't seem like there's any cap hit to cutting Lynch.

This article clearly states what happened. When he retired, the $5 mill signing bonus accelerated and affected last year's camp numbers.

Because he retired, the Seahawks had the option of recouping that money. It all depends on whether or not they choose to take that money back. If they did recoup the money, it is now owed him. If they did not, there will be no cap penalty in releasing him because you can't have a cap hit twice for the same bonus.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 16:26

fsif: Jul 18, 2003

Epi Lepi posted:

That was just wandler20 who's a big dumb FSU homer.

It was a few people.

Another good rear end line was, �Oh, so you wouldn't give up a second even if he turned out to be Sebastian Janikowski??�

# ? Mar 18, 2017 16:28

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

They gave up more than a second round pick, too. They traded up to that pick.

gave away a third and fourth to move to the second, so he cost two picks.

I feel like that should be me tioned every time. He's not "second round pick kicker" he's "traded up to the second round pick kicker"

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Mar 18, 2017

# ? Mar 18, 2017 16:31

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/washington-redskins-nfl-dysfunction-scot-mccloughan-dan-snyder-bruce-allen

quote:

Scot McCloughan won one battle in Washington in August 2015. If he�d won two, maybe�maybe�the Redskins wouldn�t be in the mess they�re wading through now.

The then-GM met for five hours one night that summer to try to convince owner Dan Snyder and president Bruce Allen that the time had come, and the team needed to move from Robert Griffin III to Kirk Cousins. Soon thereafter, with Cousins installed as starter, and believing he was in for a big year, McCloughan made a second appeal to the team�s top brass.

Let�s extend Cousins now, he told them, so we�re not stuck holding the bag later.

In the end, the quarterback�s lingering contract situation was one noticeable trigger in the explosion of the relationship between McCloughan and Allen, the team�s top two decision-makers. Most people in Ashburn agree that the deterioration of the Allen/McCloughan partnership is why we�re here. The root of that discord remains up for debate, however, and it might never be definitively settled.

In this week�s Game Plan, we�ll look at what could prevent another lockout/strike four years from now, early team impressions on Joe Mixon, the rebirth of the NFL safety, the league�s future in Las Vegas, the secret behind the Patriots� sudden offseason aggression and more.

We�ll start, though, by explaining how Washington got back into a spot that�s all too familiar, where organizational chaos envelops the football side of an operation and swallows whole the promise of a new day.

Full disclosure: I bought that promise 100 percent a year ago. My belief, having been around the Redskins, was that they had become as level as they had been at any point during Snyder�s ownership. They had perhaps the top talent evaluator in football. They had an ascending, 40-something head coach with a strong, deep staff. They had a 27-year-old quarterback. They had an increasingly deep roster.

They were good in 2015�division champs and red-hot down the stretch�and poised to get better. Even a jaded fan base was climbing aboard.

A year later the GM is gone, coach Jay Gruden is replacing both his coordinators, the quarterback�s future is murky, and D.C. Drama is back. And after talking with people at every level of the team who were there for the downturn, it�s clear there is passionate disagreement over just what tore all that optimism to shreds.

On one side of this is the idea, floated to the Washington Post by an anonymous team source, that McCloughan�s past demons�he�s publicly talked about his fight with alcoholism�returned to bring him down over the last year. On the other side, there are players and coaches who deny ever having witnessed that, and argue that it is being used as a red herring to take attention off a power struggle between Allen and McCloughan.

�What�s pissing me off is how everything is Scot�s fault,� said one veteran player. �This is not Scot�s fault. Everyone here appreciates Scot. � Let�s be honest, the issues are there, but he�s never gotten in front of the team drunk or anything like that. Whoever is saying that needs to stop.�

�If that was there, he did a good job of hiding it,� said another player. �There was never a discussion about that, at least that I saw.�

What those on the coaching and scouting staffs did see, eventually, was a blurring of lines that created a level of tension in the upper reaches of the club. There were, in particular, three flash points obvious to those not named Allen and McCloughan:

� The Cousins negotiation. At the close of training camp in 2015, McCloughan wanted to try to extend Cousins, but there was concern over how that would go over with Griffin, because some felt the team would still need him at some point. (Whether a fair figure could have been reached with Cousins is open for debate, considering the quarterback�s inconsistent r�sum� and lack of success at that point.) Finally, that December, McCloughan was given the green light. By then, Cousins� camp wanted to wait until after the year.

After Cousins� hot finish, the Skins knew they�d have to franchise Cousins at around $20 million, which framed negotiations in a place where the team wasn�t willing to go. Talks on a long-term deal got off to a rough start, and then control shifted from McCloughan to team negotiator Eric Schaffer. By the time 2016 was winding down, the GM had been removed completely from decision-making on Cousins.

To some inside the club, the use of the exclusive tag on Cousins was a surprise, since there�d been earlier discussion on potentially moving Cousins and going with Colt McCoy or signing someone like Mike Glennon. Point of all this? It�s hard to say that this was necessarily where the problem began, but there�s no question�based on the import of quarterback decisions�that it strained the relationship.

� Su�a Cravens injury. The rookie safety/linebacker injured his biceps on Dec. 11 against the Eagles. Initially the team believed it was a tear. It wound up being a bruise, the kind players often play through. Cravens missed the following Monday�s game against Carolina, and then the next game in Chicago on Christmas Eve.

By then, teammates, some of whom had seen him playing ping-pong at the facility, were openly wondering why he wasn�t pushing through the injury. After he missed two games, the team wanted him to get the arm drained in an effort to play in Week 17. Cravens responded by not showing up to the facility for treatment that day, at which point McCloughan decided to call Cravens.

That didn�t go over well with Allen. Some veterans felt McCloughan was simply trying to uphold the culture that he and Gruden had worked to build, which is seen as a �Seattle� thing (McCloughan worked for the Seahawks from 2011-13): If you see something, say something. But certainly there�d be some debate in the football world over whether it�s a GM�s place to handle those things. (Cravens sat out the finale.)

� Bashaud Breeland�s outburst. At another point in December, the third-year corner�who�d been seen internally as moody following the Josh Norman signing�blew an assignment, and was called by a coach on it. He argued. The coach argued back. Then Breeland blew another assignment, took his helmet off and sat on a cooler on the sideline. From the perspective of the coaching staff, these sorts of squabbles with players were not uncommon.

But after practice, in the locker room, McCloughan saw Breeland coming out of the shower and bluntly told the third-year corner to come to his office after he was dressed. Word of the confrontation got around, and it led to another squabble in the front office over boundaries.

As was the case with Cravens, some players believed Breeland needed to be shaken and didn�t mind McCloughan doing it. Clearly, others within the organization didn�t think it was his place.

So the season ended with the Redskins losing a win-or-go-home game against the Giants on New Year�s Day. Obviously, in the time since, things got worse. It�s been theorized that Allen grew jealous of the credit McCloughan got for the team turning a few corners over the past two years. Conversely, there have been rumblings of dissatisfaction over McCloughan�s 2016 draft and free-agent haul.

And there was more sinister talk, but few actual accounts, of McCloughan�s drinking being a visible issue. �It was whispered about all the time,� says one staffer, �but I never saw it, and I don�t know anyone who did.�

Maybe we eventually get more answers on what really happened. What I do know is that the conclusion predicted by some in Ashburn�Eventually, those people forecast, there would be problems over power and McCloughan�s past issues would be raised as he departed�has come true.

This one really never was about Snyder, as far as I can tell. It was about Allen and McCloughan, two guys who entered into a partnership two years ago founded in large part on trust, based on Allen�s history with McCloughan�s father and brother, whom he�d worked with around the turn of the century in Oakland.

That trust, as you can see, didn�t last long. And the Redskins are starting over. Again.

Essentially McCloughan wasn't a loving hidebound idiot and that pissed off Allen who wanted things to be done traditionalistically, then it got even worse because McCloughan was succeeding.

The Redskins fired a successful GM because he tried to get everyone involved instead of meekly submitting to the Established Hierarchy.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 16:40

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Benoit goes into RG3 and Kap and their playing style and concludes that they're not going to be signed by any team because they suck at pocket passing which fucks up the rest of the offense.

quote:

As we�ve covered, Kaepernick and Griffin don�t have sufficient pocket poise to give themselves a chance to survey. Even if they did, there�s no evidence they would. As throwers, both struggle with timing and anticipation. And, based on how they look on film, both seem to have a disconnect with why a play is called. Too often you see basic designs with basic route combinations going unrecognized.

When that happens, life becomes difficult for the other 10 guys on offense. Linemen can�t be sure what pass-blocking technique to employ because they can�t trust that the man behind them will be where he�s supposed to be or throw when he�s supposed to throw. Receivers stop trusting that the ball will come to them when it should (should meaning either �on time� or �at all�), which eventually impacts their execution.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 16:42

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Sataere posted:

This article clearly states what happened. When he retired, the $5 mill signing bonus accelerated and affected last year's camp numbers.

Because he retired, the Seahawks had the option of recouping that money. It all depends on whether or not they choose to take that money back. If they did recoup the money, it is now owed him. If they did not, there will be no cap penalty in releasing him because you can't have a cap hit twice for the same bonus.

I guess we'll see then. Either way, I think you can safely call their bluff and they'll be forced to release him.

fsif posted:

It was a few people.

Another good rear end line was, “Oh, so you wouldn't give up a second even if he turned out to be Sebastian Janikowski??”

lmao

# ? Mar 18, 2017 17:09

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Ehud posted:

Some people were like, "if you could guarantee a kicker who basically never misses inside 40 yards with a 2nd round pick wouldn't you do it?"

To be fair we never got that scenario to play out so maybe they are right.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 19:55

A Man and his dog: Oct 24, 2013; by R. Guyovich

gently caress Bruce Allen.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 20:23

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

CharlestheHammer posted:

To be fair we never got that scenario to play out so maybe they are right.

Seabass is one of the most successful Raiders first round picks ever. I can't blame the bucs for trying to get one of their own, but loving :lol:

if you watched his senior season at FSU and thought Aguyo was the guy.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 22:57

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Mr. Nice! posted:

Seabass is one of the most successful Raiders first round picks ever. I can't blame the bucs for trying to get one of their own, but loving if you watched his senior season at FSU and thought Aguyo was the guy.

Janikowski isn't a successful first round pick and the Raiders have made plenty in their history that what you said is nowhere near true.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:17

Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

Mr. Nice! posted:

Seabass is one of the most successful Raiders first round picks ever. I can't blame the bucs for trying to get one of their own, but loving if you watched his senior season at FSU and thought Aguyo was the guy.

Just for fun let's compare to PFR's career approximate value. Which is absolutely not beyond reproach but gently caress it, Northwestern sucks and I have nothing to do for a half of basketball. So all first round draft picks that are better or close to Seabass (according to that):

Significantly Better players:
Nnamdi Asomugha
Charles Woodson
Darrell Russell
Rob Fredrickson
Chester McGlockton
Tim Brown
Sean Jones
Don Mosebar
Marcus Allen
Henry Lawrence
Jack Tatum
Raymond Chester
Gene Upshaw
Harry Schuh
Roman Gabriel

Players who will almost surely be better by that measure in a couple of years:
Amari Cooper
Khalil Mack

Comparable players (within 2 of Seabass's 40 CarAV)
Darren McFadden
Robert Gallery
Napoleon Kaufman
Art Thoms
Joe Rutgens

PFR does value Janikowski much more than Ray Guy though.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:28

No Irish Need Imply: Nov 30, 2008

Bengals signing Kevin Minter.

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:29

Blitz of 404 Error: Sep 19, 2007; Joe Biden is a top 15 president

poo poo

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:34

Raku: Nov 7, 2012; Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

Seabass is a fine pick... In retrospect. The problem is that the only way a kicker is worth that is if he stays for at least a decade. If you knew you were locking down a guy who was actually good that's fine, however a kicker that busts can't provide depth like a first round linebacker or something can

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:40

Gumbel2Gumbel: Apr 28, 2010

Raku posted:

Seabass is a fine pick... In retrospect. The problem is that the only way a kicker is worth that is if he stays for at least a decade. If you knew you were locking down a guy who was actually good that's fine, however a kicker that busts can't provide depth like a first round linebacker or something can

Get your goddamn logic out of here, this is a hot take zone

# ? Mar 18, 2017 23:42

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

A fringe top 10 kicker for a decade isn't very valuable actually. We probably would've stumbled upon someone better over the last decade if kicker had been a need.

# ? Mar 19, 2017 00:28

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

The most important thing is there is absolutely zero chance that any other team was going to take Aguayo before the Buc's third round pick and probably like a 98% chance he'd still be there for their fourth. You don't just evaluate whether a guy was "worth" his pick, you look at whether you could have gotten him later.

And in a scenario where he's gone before your third round pick, you loving shrug and go "whatever" because you can get a kicker off of free agency who is at least 90% as good as any other kicker in the league. The gap between a very very good kicker and a middle of the pack kicker is tiny.

What you do not do is blow an early pick on a player who will definitely still be there for a later pick.

# ? Mar 19, 2017 00:49

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Raku posted:

Seabass is a fine pick... In retrospect. The problem is that the only way a kicker is worth that is if he stays for at least a decade. If you knew you were locking down a guy who was actually good that's fine, however a kicker that busts can't provide depth like a first round linebacker or something can

I don't think that's true either, since one of the issues with taking kickers is that there are a lot of good ones available every year as cheap free agents. You have to get more than the average value of a kicker, which is tough since the average kicker is pretty good and the changes And like with most draft picks the real value comes before you have to pay market value for them. With Janikowski they've been paying him top dollar since day 1 so what did they really gain? He's had as many bad years as good ones.

Volkerball posted:

A fringe top 10 kicker for a decade isn't very valuable actually. We probably would've stumbled upon someone better over the last decade if kicker had been a need.

^^^

# ? Mar 19, 2017 01:26

AggressivelyStupid: Jan 9, 2012

SKULL.GIF posted:

Benoit goes into RG3 and Kap and their playing style and concludes that they're not going to be signed by any team because they suck at pocket passing which fucks up the rest of the offense.

This isn't the lovely sportswriter thread though

# ? Mar 19, 2017 01:36

Raku: Nov 7, 2012; Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

As an Alabama fan I strongely urge you all to resist accepting a "average to pretty good" kicker

# ? Mar 19, 2017 01:55

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 20:45

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Raku posted:

As an Alabama fan I strongely urge you all to resist accepting a "average to pretty good" kicker

If you try to kick a 74 yard field goal and don't even consider that hey, maybe this might not make the distance and they'll try to return it, it's not the kickers fault.

# ? Mar 19, 2017 01:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > 2017 NFL Free Agency/Trades - Good news: $109m to spend. Bad news: Browns

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