USnews: Spooky Legislative Consequences

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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed.
Yes	160	32.92%
No	326	67.08%
Total:	486 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

The Shortest Path posted:

But more seriously you've given people ramping probes for having the wrong political opinions so it's extremely funny and pathetic that you've let someone get away with rampant trolling for over a month because they express the correct ones, and are now polling the thread for what to do about it.

If no one gets upset about it, it's not actually trolling.

There's no way to tell if a poster actually believes the stuff posted. D&D rules are that you're supposed to assume people are posting in good faith. He wasn't doing anything obnoxious or citing Breitbart articles or stupid stuff like that.

People get banned for being aggro shitheads, not because of their political views.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 19:48

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:36

Sanguinia: Jan 1, 2012; ~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

InsertPotPun posted:

there's a poll to see if a person who does not participate in good faith should stay or not.

If we ACTUALLY banned everyone who doesn't participate in good faith there wouldn't be much left of this thread.

I've seen almost a dozen posters say openly they believed that Fancy Pelosi was just Pick re-reging and posting earnestly, and responded to their content accordingly. This was despite how obvious it was that this was a troll poster pretending to be the threads imagined version of a "fake-leftist Liberal," poster. Maybe if we all weren't so eager to own our posting enemies or No True Scotsman each other in the hopes of shaming everyone not in our personal, 'objectively correct,' spot on the Leftist Spectrum a troll poster of that type wouldn't have stirred the pot so much.

If Fancy Pelosi is bored with their little game now and wants to post for real, I say have at it. If they continue to gently caress around, ban them then.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 19:48

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

I mean a thing about Fancy Pelosi is that of course they set off massive trolling red flags (reg date alone), but not everybody is equally comfortable expressing dead-set 1000% certainty about things they have very limited evidence about - it�s actually one of the main sources of tensions between posters here! - so it made more sense to most people to just ignore them, which is what almost everybody did. It was entirely possible they were just a person with really superficial and mainstream political opinions and really uninteresting takes.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 19:49

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Mellow Seas posted:

It was entirely possible they were just a person with really superficial and mainstream political opinions and really uninteresting takes.

"Posting about posters" once they were called out as a troll meant there wasn't much point in engaging them, really.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 19:58

atriptothebeach: Oct 27, 2020

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

If they want to post better for real, sure, let them stay, but deliberate bad-faith posting to rile people up is neither productive nor healthy.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:07

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

virtualboyCOLOR posted:

Another example of �are we a nation of laws or not?�

Because if not, anyone arguing against Biden to do everything necessary to help the citizens of the US is enabling the right to continue to march towards fascism.

What does this have to do with the tweet? I think you got the completely wrong take away from the tweets; its because of existing laws that Republicans want to try some hare brained scheme to avoid being affected by those laws! They're working pretty well! Nullification has a poor track record!

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:09

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

I don't have an opinion on Fancy Pelosi one way or another other than the meltdowns they've provoked from the most hair-trigger aggro posters here have been hilarious. However,

CommieGIR posted:

Shockingly, we don't probate fairly innocent trolling

this is a goddamn lie and you know it. Why would you even try to claim otherwise?

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:11

Epicurius: Apr 10, 2010; College Slice

Willa Rogers posted:

And it doesn't take a psychic to recognize what Dems' intentions have been all along for this bill, bc leadership like Pelosi have made it clear that subsidizing health insurers, subsidizing pharma companies & subsidizing tax cuts for richies are the priorities here.

I think Dem intentions as a whole for the bill is to get enough votes and get it passed, regardless of what it looks like at the end. It's a win if it passes, and a loss if it doesn't. This is one of the reasons thr party is more pissed at Sinema than Manchin. Manchin has been saying what he wants cut to support the bill, and Sinema hasn't.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:14

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

"I was a troll posting in bad faith" should be a ban IMHO like what are we trying to preserve here.

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:16

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Ultra Carp

CommieGIR posted:

Hey All, so Fancy Pelosi has dropped in the Mod Feedback forum to let us know that they were a troll all along, but frankly, we're inclined to let them stay. So vote in the poll!

Pagesnipe cat tax:

jesus loving christ

the goddamn rules posted:

Post in good faith, and assume others are posting in good faith: Playing devil’s advocate is tiresome; post things you genuinely believe or are curious about. Unless you have ample reason to do so, assume that others also believe what they post, and react accordingly. If you disagree with someone, aim to inform or convince; do not assume malice. If you suspect that someone is trolling, repeating disproved claims, or lying about their positions or facts, disengage gracefully and report them.

if someone is obviously and blatantly in posting in bad faith, ban them. What the hell are you doing?

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:22

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Sanguinia posted:

If we ACTUALLY banned everyone who doesn't participate in good faith there wouldn't be much left of this thread.

what percentage of the thread would you assume would be left?
there's always been one or two people in the thread that play the "devil's advocate" and "just asking questions" game that are around for a very very long time, who always cause a pile up that gets a few people banned. i have no idea who fancy pelos is or what exactly they hope to accomplish with this poll because i'm not sure what they're offering?
i'm just saying the moderation has always been inconsistent and weird and it would be nice to know if this new poll thing is a one off just for fancy pelosi because of their...because...well it would be nice to know literally anything about why they get special treatment, is this a new rule? who else gets a poll? do we get to know who gets a poll or why?
just...transparent as loving pea soup the whole thing
edit: it's just hard enough to stick to someone's interpretation of vague rules made by long dead people without also tripping over the multiple invisible rules.

InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 24, 2021

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:22

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Ultra Carp

like this is a comedy forum so if they're actually funny, that's one thing. But this? come the gently caress on

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:23

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The NYT style guide essentially requires that they put the most neutral spin possible on their assessment and not assume motives, but they are straining to keep to the style guide requirements in this article.

I don't know how countries like Portugal can get 99+% vaccination rates and not have borderline psychotic people who are said they are willing to take their sick kid out of school, off of their health insurance, and lose their income as "a principle to tell my daughter with pride when she grows up." I doubt that Portuguese are somehow genetically less inclined to being assholes.

Or people who are preemptively not enrolling their kids in school because they fear that a vaccine mandate for kids might come at some point.

So many of them are nurses and teachers too, which is sort of concerning even without Covid.

quote:

Their Jobs Made Them Get Vaccinated. They Refused.

The willingness of some workers to give up their livelihoods helps explain the country�s struggle to contain the pandemic.

Under the threat of losing their jobs, hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers finally got a Covid-19 vaccine. Teachers, nurses and home health aides accepted their occupations� mandates. The mass resignations some experts had predicted did not occur, as most workers hurriedly got inoculated.

Josephine Valdez, 30, a public school paraprofessional from the Bronx, did not.

Failing to meet the New York City Education Department�s vaccination deadline, Ms. Valdez lost her job this month. She is among the 4 percent of the city�s roughly 150,000 public school employees who did not comply with the order.

She is also part of a sizable, unwavering contingent across the United States whose resistance to the vaccines have won out over paychecks, or who have given up careers entirely.

This month, Washington State University fired its top football coach and several other members of the team�s staff after they refused to get vaccinated. In Massachusetts, where a state mandate took effect this past week, at least 150 state police officers resigned or filed paperwork signaling plans to do so.

Their resistance goes against reams of scientific data showing that the Covid-19 vaccines are overwhelmingly safe and effective and have reduced hospitalizations and deaths.

To public health officials, and the majority of Americans, the defiance is unreasonable and incomprehensible. Who would jeopardize their families� financial security over a shot that has been proven safe and effective at preventing death?

That is not the way the holdouts see it. In interviews, New Yorkers who have given up their livelihoods spoke of their opposition to the vaccines as rooted in fear or in a deeply held conviction � resistance to vaccination as a principle to live by, one they put above any health, job or financial consideration.

It is this alternative worldview, resistant to carrot or stick, that helps explain why 21 percent of eligible adults in the country have not gotten a single vaccine dose, threatening a nationwide goal of containing the pandemic.

The mandates, which many resisters balk at as unheard-of government overreach, are similar to those that have been instituted in the past for schoolchildren for diseases like polio, mumps and measles.

And the mandates appear to be working. About 84 percent of adult New Yorkers have now received at least one vaccine dose in the face of state and city mandates, as well as requirements imposed by some private companies.

Last week, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced that nearly all 300,000 of the city�s employees would have to a first shot by Nov. 1. The order puts pressure on New York City�s approximately 46,000 municipal employees who have not yet done so.

Those who are holding out cite different reasons for their choice: The vaccines are too new, too risky, pumped out too quickly, some said. Others cited their religious faith. Many, citing what they say are American values of independence, refused in part because they objected to being forced.

Still, misinformation has been powerful, and fear and doubt have hardened into obstinacy for many of the vaccine refusers.

As Ms. Valdez packed up her classroom on her final day, Oct. 1, her students became distressed, she recalled.

�The kids, they were telling me not to leave, to just go get the vaccine,� said Ms. Valdez, who has moved back in with her parents. �I had to explain to them, the government doesn�t own my body.�

She is now tutoring an elementary school student whose parents chose to remove their daughter from public school because they oppose the mask requirement for children.

Theresa Malek, 38, nurse

This month, Theresa Malek packed up her car, said goodbye to her husband and three children and drove from Sloan, N.Y., in the western part of the state, to Atlanta for her new job as a travel nurse.

Ms. Malek, who was previously a nurse at Erie County Medical Center in Buffalo, refused vaccination and resigned last month. She is her family�s sole breadwinner, she said, and will be working at an Atlanta hospital on shifts that can last two months at a time.

�I�ve had anxiety attacks, crying, I�m a hot mess,� said Ms. Malek, who chose not to get vaccinated because she fears possible side effects. �I don�t want to walk away from this career. I don�t want to walk away from these people who need us. But I also need to know that I am going to be healthy.�

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the most common effects of Covid-19 vaccines can include headaches, nausea and fatigue. More severe side effects have been reported in rare cases.

For four months at the start of the pandemic, Ms. Malek lived alone at her home in Sloan while her husband and children lived with her in-laws so she could avoid the possibility of exposing them to the virus because of her work. Some of her extended family has pushed her to get vaccinated.

�I�ve dedicated my whole life to helping kids,� said Ayse Ustares, a school social worker who is a 20-year veteran of New York City�s schools. She said she had refused to get vaccinated because she had been sick with Covid-19 and believes she now has natural immunity.

Dr. Dave A. Chokshi, New York City�s health commissioner, said that studies showed that vaccination strengthens immunity for those who had a prior infection.

�Using the evidence we have right now about benefits and risks of vaccination, regardless of prior Covid-19, the choice is clear,� he said in a statement. �Get the shot!�

Ms. Ustares, who lives in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., in Westchester County, is on unpaid leave from the Education Department because she has not complied with the order.

�What�s the biggest fear in America?� she said. �Money. They think: �Hit people in the wallet.� So many of my friends caved, they were just like me, but now they are coerced into taking the shot, just so they can make their mortgage payment. I have already let go of the fear.�

Ms. Ustares is exploring new avenues, including opening a gymnasium that would help children develop motor skills, she said. In her view, mandatory vaccination is a step toward other choices being taken away.

�It is not going to stop here,� she said. �The more we comply, the more they are going to take. First it�s the masks, then it�s the weekly testing, then it�s the vaccine, then booster shots."

Itzia Jimenez, 33, gym cleaner

This summer, Mr. de Blasio introduced vaccine mandates for certain activities, including indoor dining and gyms. Itzia Jimenez, who refused to get vaccinated because she fears the vaccines are not safe, lost her job cleaning gyms.

Ms. Jimenez said she has struggled to find cleaning jobs because she is unvaccinated. Her family now relies financially on her daughter�s father, whose workplace required him to be vaccinated.

She is making plans to home-school her preteen daughter, she said, anticipating a possible future mandate for public school children. All 50 states already require certain vaccinations, such as for measles, mumps and rubella. This month, California announced plans to require Covid-19 vaccines for students. Eric Adams, New York City�s likely next mayor, has indicated he plans to do the same.

�But she likes to be around her friends, it is so hard for her,� Ms. Jimenez said of her daughter. �Am I doing the right thing, am I doing the correct thing?�

Douglas Kariman, 48, nurse

A nurse in a medical intensive care unit at Erie County Medical Center, Douglas Kariman applied for a religious exemption from mandatory vaccination. A Baptist Christian, he said his opposition to abortion was one factor in his refusing the vaccines, which, like many common over-the-counter medicines, were tested or developed using research from fetal cells collected decades ago.

At one health care network in Arkansas, the Conway Regional Health System, so many employees requested religious exemptions that the system began requiring them to sign a form stating that their faith also prevented them from using 30 common medicines, including Benadryl and Tums, that were developed using research from fetal cells, according to reports.

New York State�s mandate for health workers did not permit religious exemptions, but this month, a federal judge in Utica issued a temporary stay after a group of medical workers seeking such exemptions filed suit; Mr. Kariman remains employed pending the resolution of the case.

He said he knows how dangerous the coronavirus is.

�I�m not one of these anti-vaxxers as a whole saying, �It�s fake.� It�s not fake,� he said. �I feel very strongly you can get sick and you can die from this. I took care of people who died from this.�

According to C.D.C. data, unvaccinated people are 4.5 times more likely to contract the coronavirus, and 11 times more likely to die from their infection than those who are vaccinated.

Crisleidy Castillo, 27, elementary schoolteacher

Crisleidy Castillo, who was a special-education teacher in the Bronx, said she refused to get vaccinated because she was still breastfeeding her daughter and had concerns because the vaccine had not been tested on women who were breastfeeding.

The C.D.C., saying that antibodies passed through breast milk can help protect babies, recommends vaccination for those who are breastfeeding, although study data is limited.

�When you�re breastfeeding, they say, �Oh, you cannot drink coffee, you cannot drink alcohol,�� Ms. Castillo said. �I�m not going to feel pressure to do something that I don�t want to do.�

Four days after she lost her public school job, she was hired to teach first grade at a private school in Westchester County where vaccination is recommended but not required. But the pay is about 60 percent less than her previous salary, she said, forcing her to take her son out of day care because she can no longer afford it. Her family is also no longer covered by her health insurance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/nyregion/new-york-workers-refuse-vaccine.html

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:24

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

�It is not going to stop here,� she said. �The more we comply, the more they are going to take. First it�s the masks, then it�s the weekly testing, then it�s the vaccine, then booster shots."

Itzia Jimenez, 33, gym cleaner

i'm loving the "slippery slope" being laid out here. the "third step" invalidates the first two and the "fourth step" is just a known necessity sometimes.
they're not even good at being victims

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:31

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

As a lurker: this thread erupts into slap fights already from legitimate good faith posters. Person was obvious troll, admitted they were obvious troll. Okay, whatever, move on but don't let them back into the thread they were trolling.

That poll reads like a lifeguard asking the people in the pool "Hey I have a 5 Kg block of metallic potassium. Mind if I toss it into the pool for my entertainment while you're in it?"

# ? Oct 24, 2021 20:37

Dammerung: Oct 17, 2008; "Dang, that's hot."