p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

fart simpson posted:

you should check your compiler binaries into source control

# ? Mar 13, 2015 19:38

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 16:23

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

like seriously what do you do when you need to ship a hotfix for the version of the product you shipped five years ago

you can't exactly build it with today's toolchain, and i hope your toolchain has moved since then

# ? Mar 13, 2015 19:40

hepatizon: Oct 27, 2010

fart simpson posted:

maybe you should check your compiler binaries into source control if it's causing this much of an issue

A+ troll

# ? Mar 13, 2015 19:55

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

Dessert Rose posted:

like seriously what do you do when you need to ship a hotfix for the version of the product you shipped five years ago

you can't exactly build it with today's toolchain, and i hope your toolchain has moved since then

p. sure it has been two PL threads since i made precisely this point in a serious way and angered an awful lot of people

remains true that more version control and a more unified version control (i.e. all tools, builds, documentation, requirement documents, training videos, wikis etc should be kept in a very strictly held together versioning tree, and a lot of binary/artifact tracking poo poo are flawed bandaids)

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:07

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

well like how are you even configuring your development environment in the first place? are you having every developer follow some steps on a wiki, downloading each component of the toolchain individually?

if you're at all competent you've got some command that sets up the entire build environment in one step, downloading and configuring all your tools

at that point why not just make sure to snapshot that state when you ship something?

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:13

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Dessert Rose posted:

like seriously what do you do when you need to ship a hotfix for the version of the product you shipped five years ago

you can't exactly build it with today's toolchain, and i hope your toolchain has moved since then

if your toolchain is not re-creatable at will you're a jackass. i would use an artifact repository rather than source control, though.

binaries have semantic versions, not diffs and commit logs. source control is just the wrong tool for the job

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:14

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Dessert Rose posted:

well like how are you even configuring your development environment in the first place? are you having every developer follow some steps on a wiki, downloading each component of the toolchain individually?

if you're at all competent you've got some command that sets up the entire build environment in one step, downloading and configuring all your tools

at that point why not just make sure to snapshot that state when you ship something?

configuration management and package repositories.

i don't want a snapshot of the first developer's workstation from 1998. i want to know, precisely, that version 2.6.4 of my product is intended to be built with gcc 4.4.7-11.el6.

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 13, 2015

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:15

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

this seriously seems like 201 level poo poo, my work's build system sucks but at least we get that right, i can pull down the entire toolchain used to ship every release for the last ten years when i check out the branch that that release shipped out of

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:15

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Dessert Rose posted:

this seriously seems like 201 level poo poo, my work's build system sucks but at least we get that right, i can pull down the entire toolchain used to ship every release for the last ten years when i check out the branch that that release shipped out of

this is some real clownshoes poo poo right here

it's better than nothing but holy lol

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:16

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if your toolchain is not re-creatable at will you're a jackass. i would use an artifact repository rather than source control, though.

binaries have semantic versions, not diffs and commit logs. source control is just the wrong tool for the job

yeah i would agree that source control specifically is suboptimal for this purpose, but it's certainly better than whatever the hell these "omg a compiler update broke our shipping code" chucklefucks are doing

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:17

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

this is some real clownshoes poo poo right here

it's better than nothing but holy lol

trust me, i know

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:18

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

with the model of "ship code" with rapidly shifting toolchains it seems like a fine time to bring up failure oblivious computing

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:23

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

do your development in a virtual machine and just check the whole virtual drive into source control. problem fixed.

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:30

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

Dessert Rose posted:

well like how are you even configuring your development environment in the first place? are you having every developer follow some steps on a wiki, downloading each component of the toolchain individually?

if you're at all competent you've got some command that sets up the entire build environment in one step, downloading and configuring all your tools

at that point why not just make sure to snapshot that state when you ship something?

at my last thing we saved vm images of the dev env on that super cheap amazon long term storage thing

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:32

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

the talent deficit posted:

at my last thing we saved vm images of the dev env on that super cheap amazon long term storage thing

opaque snapshots are bad. it only solves half the problem

now you can build a hotfix on your five year old branch, but you don't know how or why you can build the hotfix

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:38

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

If your compiler doesn't have versioned variants of -Werror, I don't know what to say.

# ? Mar 13, 2015 20:40

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

opaque snapshots are bad. it only solves half the problem

now you can build a hotfix on your five year old branch, but you don't know how or why you can build the hotfix

that wasn't our only plan it was just our last resort in case all else failed

# ? Mar 13, 2015 21:30

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

i find belt and suspenders rarely works because programmers are lazy as gently caress

# ? Mar 13, 2015 21:59

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Bloody posted:

do your development in a virtual machine and just check the whole virtual drive into source control. problem fixed.

Be sure to check in the source for the virtialization software and its tool chain too!!

# ? Mar 13, 2015 22:14

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

also, your processor microcode

# ? Mar 13, 2015 22:23

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

# ? Mar 18, 2015 19:21

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

lol

# ? Mar 18, 2015 21:21

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

the combo of nuget and msbuild is pretty bad.

# ? Mar 18, 2015 21:22

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

http://xapian.org/docs/apidoc/html/classXapian_1_1DecreasingValueWeightPostingSource.html

oh hey its me

# ? Mar 19, 2015 02:12

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

Suspicious Dish posted:

http://xapian.org/docs/apidoc/html/classXapian_1_1DecreasingValueWeightPostingSource.html

oh hey its me

lol

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:33

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

did anyone post this yet

https://togototo.wordpress.com/2015/03/07/fulfilling-a-pikedream-the-ups-of-downs-of-porting-50k-lines-of-c-to-go/

quote:

The pros

Emacs! ... Since one of my reasons for getting into programming was the opportunity to get paid to use Emacs, this is definitely a huge plus. ... Emacs + Go == parametric polymorphism: not only can macros be used to speed up the process of generating the �copy-paste� code that Go�s lack of parametric polymorphism requires, if functions are written right then regex can also be used to update all �copy-pasted� functions simultaneously, making updating the code for fooInt, fooFloat and fooDouble almost as easy as updating foo<t> in a language that supports <t>. The downside is that, while Emacs macros and regex can write and modify Go code in such a manner as to emulate parametric polymorphism, it�s still not as readable or concise as actually-polymorphic code, and of course is not easily maintainable by someone lacking familiarity with regex or an extensible editor like Emacs.

i am never ever using this language

otoh it might be just the thing for xah lee to finally break into software dev

# ? Mar 20, 2015 07:56

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

is he still alive? last i heard he was homeless and spamming dickpix to shrughes

# ? Mar 20, 2015 13:51

brap: Aug 23, 2004; Grimey Drawer

no generic types was an incredibly loving stupid decision

# ? Mar 20, 2015 17:35

DimpledChad: May 14, 2002; Rigging elections since '87.

quote:

one of my reasons for getting into programming was the opportunity to get paid to use Emacs

# ? Mar 20, 2015 17:49

Spatial: Nov 15, 2007

fleshweasel posted:

no generic types was an incredibly loving stupid decision

quote:

The cons

Stockholm syndrome.

# ? Mar 20, 2015 18:18

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Blotto Skorzany posted:

is he still alive? last i heard he was homeless and spamming dickpix to shrughes

he's still getting by on his ad income apparently, elisp with greek-letter hungarian notation seems to be his latest clever idea that nobody will hire him for

# ? Mar 20, 2015 19:45

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

I just wrote a thing in Go. Babby's first interactive website, I think. A custom event management system for my golf group. One thing that's nice about Go is that it's relatively comfortable to use. An exception: It's kind of amazing that people do non-functional programming in languages that don't make it super easy to deep copy objects, like C++ does.

# ? Mar 20, 2015 19:51

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

fleshweasel posted:

no generic types was an incredibly loving stupid decision

# ? Mar 20, 2015 21:28

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

fleshweasel posted:

no generic types was an incredibly loving stupid decision

but it's haaaaaaard

# ? Mar 20, 2015 22:27

ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

Dessert Rose posted:

but it's haaaaaaard

this is a valid reason not to do something fyi

# ? Mar 21, 2015 03:53

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

ahmeni posted:

this is a valid reason not to do something fyi

and yet here u r still posting

# ? Mar 21, 2015 05:38

ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer