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About two months ago, We had a showing scheduled for a house on a Tuesday that had been on the market since Sunday. Monday morning my realtor called and cancelled because the owner got an offer “they couldn’t refuse”. A month later the house was back on the market. gently caress them.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:50
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Residency Evil posted:I'm still having a very tough time trying to figure out who all of these buyers are that are shopping for 400k homes, yet have enough cash to put in an offer for $600k/waive all contingencies/etc. Presumably it's someone who just sold their paid off $800k home? I'm just having a tough time believing that those people aren't trying to buy an even more expensive home because Yes, it's people who are selling off another house. If you're in the market for a $400k house and you're looking to put 20% down, there's only so far you can stretch even if you just embrace PMI and say gently caress it we don't need to go 20% down. After a certain point the monthly payments just become too much. If you're in the market for a $400k house and the actual price is more like $600k, but you're selling another home you can afford to raise the stakes, even if it means that your payments go up. Your pool of financial resources is just bigger, even if your actual home value was magically completely flat over the last 15 years you owned it and you're only getting out the principal you paid in. You're still essentially starting from having effectively saved monthly for the last decade and a half towards your current home purchase.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:54
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I mean, I'll be the first in line to shout down the bullshit common boomer wisdom that you're just throwing money away if you rent and buying is always the better option, but this is that little kernel of truth that all that bullshit gets wrapped up in: if you're paying a mortgage you are building equity in an asset that you can then liquidate to get cash. Is it always the optimum financial decision? No. If you can rent for $1k/month or buy for $1.5k/month you may very well be better off renting and plowing the rest into your 401k. But when it specifically comes to buying a house, having a mortgage that you've been plowing monthly payments into for a decade or more is a really huge advantage, even if you haven't benefited at loving all from rising home values. Someone breaking even on selling their dying rust-belt suburb starter home might have been better off if they'd stuck those payments in the stock market, but they're still going to have a leg up on someone without that asset. edit: It also helps that a lot of people are loving TERRIBLE at saving and paying your mortgage becomes a de facto way of doing that. poo poo, that's the entire basis of all the predatory lending and refinance poo poo surrounding helping people "find cash in your home!" as one current commercial puts it. Draw on that equity to buy a new truck! Etc.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:58
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I bought a house at double-digit interest rates (I think 13%?) in the mid-to-late 1980s. The housing market in Massachusetts was red-hot at the time, and if you didn't buy, even at 13%, you were never going to get to buy. Can't wait!!!!!!!
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Apr 28, 2022 19:18
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:A rising "cost to borrow" should influence how much people are able to pay for a house, in a vacuum, but historically home values have gone UP when interest rates go up, because it's typically inflation driving both interest rates & home values up, up up. And if you're selling your Starter Home for a 100% return, who cares if your old mortgage was 3% and your new one is 5%??? It's free money!! What are your thoughts on the current housing market "bubble" fears/projections? Where do you think rates are gonna peak? And more detailed - when and what is the Fed gonna do through this summer? +.5 in May?
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Apr 28, 2022 19:27
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Thought you guys would enjoy this text message I received. Assuming it's about my old house (sold late last year) since I've received more calls about it since selling than in the 5+ years I owned it. Also I'm on the west coast and I sold it for more than 4x the amount they're offering (and the market has generally increased here in that time). If they're referencing the house I just bought, it's even more of a laughable number. E: if it weren't such an obvious scam\spam, I'd reply with a link to a YouTube video of like various people laughing for ten minutes straight or whatever.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:34
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Cyrano4747 posted:Now, the flip side of that is that there are a LOT of people who got those crazy low rate who now have zero loving incentive to ever sell unless they absolutely have to. If you got in at sub-3% and can afford your mortgage you're actively disincentivized from moving somewhere else because even if you roll over the exact amount you have left in your house to a new loan, that new loan is going to be at today's rates which means you might not be able to afford another house. I suspect we're going to see a lot of housing stock basically locked up by people who can't afford to move out until they get major equity built up - so figure 10 or 15 years into their 2021-minted 2.5% mortgage. Ah cool the California Prop 13 effect adding transaction costs and suppressing liquidity!
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Apr 28, 2022 19:42
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you can rent for $1k/month or buy for $1.5k/month you may very well be better off renting and plowing the rest into your 401k. I did this and now have a fat retirement account but not enough taxable money to buy a house.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:45
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:To build on this - a sitting house in a red hot market is poison. Most of the time it's just a newer realtor that hosed up and listed it too high. With everyone creating lists of houses to see on Zillow/Redfin - sitting houses go to the bottom of people's lists. Or it's a Zillow/OpenDoor house and your realtor can let you know so you don't have to bother seeing it. Why would being an i-buyer flipped home mean you put off seeing it entirely? They don't really operate in my market so just wondering if they are poison.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:47
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canyoneer posted:Ah cool the California Prop 13 effect adding transaction costs and suppressing liquidity! Working as intended. 
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Apr 28, 2022 19:47
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I got an offer site unseen for my house $10k over asking a day before it hit the market. So we’ll see how open houses go this weekend. Hoping for $30k over asking now!
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Apr 28, 2022 20:06
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:What are your thoughts on the current housing market "bubble" fears/projections? Well, buying a house is pretty much always a "sub-optimal" financial decision, so I don't stress too much about where we are at in the value cycle, as long as you can afford the payment without issue. You'd always* be better served putting your House Money in index funds and renting compared to the illiquid, high expense ratio, negative dividend and slow appreciating investment that is a house. Prices could honestly go up or down 15% in the next 6 months or stay the same for 5 years and there's no way to have an advantage in your guess. Overall though? My gut is telling me values in primary markets & their adjacent suburbs see modest but upward price movement over the spring, summer and fall. I'd (baselessly) guess that rates fluctuate between 15 and 75bps from where they are now but in general only climb about 35bps by the end of September. All these predictions get obliterated by any one of a number of geopolitical events that can change overnight. Buying a house is so much more of a lifestyle decision than a financial decision to me, though, so the question of "is now the time to buy" should be less concerned with whether prices go up or down but more about -Do you want to physically move right now? Is it a good time to change locations and physically pack up all your poo poo? -Do you want to start maintaining & also enjoying a home right now? It's a ton of work that is for nothing if you're not going to take advantage of the space. -Do you have the funds available to afford something you would be happy to own and occupy for 7+ years? The time is "right" if you can afford it and want it. The only real risk of a housing bubble popping would be if you hated your home and wanted (or needed) to move but were underwater by tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you don't want or need to sell, it really won't matter if values go up or down. Did you say you're in Portland? Portland is starting to get national investor interest in the commercial side of the real estate world, and urban rents are skyrocketing which will always push people out of the city and toward buying a home. I think Portland has some rosy days ahead of it this year. *yeah yeah yeah Japan stocks are bad and Palo Alto homes are worth a billion dollars
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Apr 28, 2022 20:11
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Residency Evil posted:I'm still having a very tough time trying to figure out who all of these buyers are that are shopping for 400k homes, yet have enough cash to put in an offer for $600k/waive all contingencies/etc. Presumably it's someone who just sold their paid off $800k home? I'm just having a tough time believing that those people aren't trying to buy an even more expensive home because 
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Apr 28, 2022 20:18
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fourwood posted:Why buy more house than you need? 
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Apr 28, 2022 20:20
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fourwood posted:Why buy more house than you need? I was going to say you must not be from America but then clicked on your post history. Friend, Naperville/Lisle/Warrenville/etc must be close to you, right?
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Apr 28, 2022 20:25
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If I don’t buy more house than I need then how am I going to lord over lesser men?
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Apr 28, 2022 20:27
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Well the more expensive the house the higher total cash return when you sell, duh. Would you rather have 100,000k earning at 8% or 500k earning at 8%?
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Apr 28, 2022 20:27
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Well, buying a house is pretty much always a "sub-optimal" financial decision, so I don't stress too much about where we are at in the value cycle, as long as you can afford the payment without issue. You'd always* be better served putting your House Money in index funds and renting compared to the illiquid, high expense ratio, negative dividend and slow appreciating investment that is a house. It's not. Buying a house can definitely be valuable long term financial decision. I understand where you are coming from and basically trying to say things are a lifestyle decision, but for many people who are raising a family it's really the only answer. There is a lot of stress dealing with rental situations + your child having to xfer schools (due to being kicked out of apt), you having to move during a school season, you haven't to find a valuable school district, etc. etc. that ultimately it's not purely lifestyle for a large number of people.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:Now, the flip side of that is that there are a LOT of people who got those crazy low rate who now have zero loving incentive to ever sell unless they absolutely have to. If you got in at sub-3% and can afford your mortgage you're actively disincentivized from moving somewhere else because even if you roll over the exact amount you have left in your house to a new loan, that new loan is going to be at today's rates which means you might not be able to afford another house. I suspect we're going to see a lot of housing stock basically locked up by people who can't afford to move out until they get major equity built up - so figure 10 or 15 years into their 2021-minted 2.5% mortgage. Hey, look it's me and the house I got @ 2.5% in 2020. Why would I sell? I'll never get a better price or a better rate. And all my stuff is here.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:46
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ntan1 posted:It's not. Buying a house can definitely be valuable long term financial decision. I understand where you are coming from and basically trying to say things are a lifestyle decision, but for many people who are raising a family it's really the only answer. Once upon a time, I'd have disagreed with this based on how life was when I was growing up, but I just went through it two years ago with my own kid. We were effectively evicted (rentvicted, I'm calling it) when my wife had a baby, and had a whole bunch of places refuse to rent to couples with children (or have impossible-to-meet restrictions associated with it) before we ended up buying a condo. It was very hard to find places that would allow kids that weren't also absolute slumlord dumps.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:48
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ntan1 posted:It's not. Buying a house can definitely be valuable long term financial decision. I understand where you are coming from and basically trying to say things are a lifestyle decision, but for many people who are raising a family it's really the only answer. This feels like what I was saying, TBH, so I probably just phrased it poorly. Having kids (a lifestyle & sub-optimal financial decision in its own right!) is a perfect reason for why now would be the Time to buy a house, even if $200k on a Down Payment is a worse financial move than $200k on Index Funds, or you're worried home values are going down, or that you might be able to afford more/better house in the future, etc.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:07
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Sundae posted:Once upon a time, I'd have disagreed with this based on how life was when I was growing up, but I just went through it two years ago with my own kid. We were effectively evicted (rentvicted, I'm calling it) when my wife had a baby, and had a whole bunch of places refuse to rent to couples with children (or have impossible-to-meet restrictions associated with it) before we ended up buying a condo. It was very hard to find places that would allow kids that weren't also absolute slumlord dumps. FWIW thats a really blatant violation of the Equal Housing Act and if you can prove it you can get those places into deep poo poo with HUD, and maybe some other agencies as well. HUD posted:Examples of Familial Status Discrimination
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Apr 28, 2022 21:15
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marjorie posted:Thought you guys would enjoy this text message I received. Assuming it's about my old house (sold late last year) since I've received more calls about it since selling than in the 5+ years I owned it. Also I'm on the west coast and I sold it for more than 4x the amount they're offering (and the market has generally increased here in that time). If they're referencing the house I just bought, it's even more of a laughable number. "yes please meet me behind the McDonald's on <street name> for the handoff, have the money in a black briefcase. i will provide the title in a manila envelope"
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Apr 28, 2022 21:31
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Cyrano4747 posted:FWIW thats a really blatant violation of the Equal Housing Act and if you can prove it you can get those places into deep poo poo with HUD, and maybe some other agencies as well. True, and then get added to the housing blacklists / tenant background firms that run rampant in the bay area. Plus in the short term, I still needed a place to live and that practice is all over the loving place out here. It wasn't worth fighting at the time.Edit: Semi-related to blacklists and other bad practices: at one of the places I was evaluating to rent when I moved out here in 2016, the front office manager pulled out a binder in front of me with tons of $$ tables on it, and she showed it to me while talking. Paraphrasing her explanation: "Every week, we update our rents in this database with all the other participating complexes so that we're all aligned. Right now, a 2BR in your size range will run you $XXXX from any company participating; we all share our pricing data for efficiency's sake." They were collating "publicly available" information they were putting out on Apartments.com / other websites, and all ensuring that it was centralized in a form where everyone would adhere to the unwritten rule of keeping pricing consistent. Everyone soak tenants equally, etc. She was so upfront and blatant about it that honestly, I assumed it was legal. Hell, it might actually be legal if they play it correctly. Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 21:48
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Gotta say, the number one reason to buy a house is to not deal with landlords.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:58
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Sundae posted:True, and then get added to the housing blacklists / tenant background firms that run rampant in the bay area. Yeah.. the Fair Housing Act is better than nothing but it's incredibly simple to game. There is legal precedent at the federal level that neighbors and landlords must accept crying infants at any time of day or night. You can't evict someone for having a Crying Baby. And yet, people do get formally evicted for noise complaints and they can't fight it because they haven't properly documented that the noise was in fact an infant and not a toddler. They can't charge you additional fees because you have children, but they can charge you additional fees because they chose to. It's legal to tack on a monthly Utility Fee when previously you got your utilities for free in the rent. It's illegal to do this specifically because you have a child, but it's impossible to prove that this is why they added the fee. They can simply say they are bringing rents to market! And if your landlord can't evict you, they can still treat you like a tenant which is basically just as bad. It's lease renewal time and they offer you the highest price allowable by law, and there is no way to prove that they made this (legal) offer due to your familial status.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:10
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Entire political parties have made collective careers out of not saying the quiet part out loud. Why would business and law be any different?
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Apr 28, 2022 22:23
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Cyrano4747 posted:Gotta say, the number one reason to buy a house is to not deal with landlords. I have enjoyed this tremendously yeah. 2021 30year mortgage @ 3% here, and I don't feel this is my forever home. Going to suck when I have to buy my next place years down the road for 10% interest or whatever.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:24
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raggedphoto posted:I started filtering Redfin to show homes that had been on the market for more than 30 days and while most were total crap/overpriced there were some hidden gems including the house we are closing on. Tell us about your hidden gem and why it was hidden!
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Apr 28, 2022 22:34
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Residency Evil posted:I was going to say you must not be from America but then clicked on your post history. But no obviously the country is full of people setting their price targets at DTI 38% or whatever and then just going hog wild.
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Apr 28, 2022 22:36
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Tell us about your hidden gem and why it was hidden! Yeah 
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Apr 28, 2022 22:47
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nwin posted:My previous townhouse I rented was purchased in 2006 at the height of the market, fully financed. Then the market crashed and the owners just held onto it until last year when they finally sold for about $10k more than they had purchased it for. It sucks. This is my big fear with buying a non-SFH. Also I'm seriously considering the intangibles of actually buying in this market where in most cases my PITI would be a few hundred above what I'm currently paying at an already expensive apartment. I know the usual rule is a mortgage (+/- HoA) should be cheaper than rent for it to be feasible, but my current place is basically offering me $50ish more than I'm paying now if I resign for next year and it is very very tempting, especially considering my sister's place in a different state upped her rent a few hundred this year. Not to mention the future with work from home and whatnot with work and general job security in what is likely going to be a recession soon (ie: if I got laid off I might just move closer to family a few hours away, out of state). Effectively I need to think about what my reasons for wanting to buy are, since its definitely not a "need". As a single dude with no kids an apartment suits me just fine. I also get that this isn't really a problem that anyone can give concrete advice on since its mostly just me venting, but still.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:05
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Tell us about your hidden gem and why it was hidden! I want to preface by saying that a "hidden gem" for me is a fixer in a good neighborhood so thats what we got. Late 1940's craftsman (foundations vastly improved after the war here in Portland so big plus that its late 40's) with solid bones on a corner lot. The layout is great, it's the right size for us and is in a good part of town. It had been listed for 30 days without much traction because in the photos it looked like a hoarder house and has some paint flaking issues. But it wasn't so much of a hoarder house as just an older single woman who was moved to assisted living and passed away. It seems that her son who is selling the place didn't want to clear it out before listing it for some reason. So it looked bad, needs some work and the listing agent kinda sucks but under it all is a great house. Inspection report came back with only things we already kinda knew so all good there. Our agent loves it, feels that in this market if it had been cleaned up it would've sold for a lot more. We got it at asking price, I think we could've even come down a bit but there was another offer already in and we really wanted it. In a normal market I probably would've passed on it but I think we got a real great house. I am taking time off work to get it into a livable condition and really looking forward to it! We get the keys this evening!
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Apr 28, 2022 23:27
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That sounds wonderful.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:34
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Excellent Post Thanks for the reply. House 1 street over just got listed, we toured and are probably dropping an offer (unless we're already priced out). Neighbors are also listing and realtor gave positive feedback about reaching out to our landlord about purchasing our rental, so seems like some options. Bungalows are gold in PDX, unfortunately this is a bungalow. 90's homes have generally been what we're considering - but that's what we just got blown away on, makes sense more CRE/investment money is flowing in. Also gently caress the CRE $. Inner Light posted:Why would being an i-buyer flipped home mean you put off seeing it entirely? They don't really operate in my market so just wondering if they are poison. Replace thread title with "stupid & spiteful". The ibuyer has put in the least $ possible to flip it and will have hired someone to literally paint over mold/cracks vs even remotely addressing an issue. Realtors hate ibuyers (they're not involved). Lender's hate ibuyers (they have to follow lending regulations instead of tech startup no rule bs, among other encroachments). The contractors are lowest $ and have no incentive to do good work. And then now - with Zillow/OpenDoor having done it so ridiculously poorly - anything that was a good deal went quick. Anything still left is almost certainly a nightmare - but if you check out all of them, there is a chance you hit it big. Congrats Ragged on your new
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Apr 29, 2022 00:45
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jaffyjaffy posted:This is my big fear with buying a non-SFH. This can totally happen with SFH's as well. I know of one that sold last summer, looks great, great location, great schools... Sold for 2.5 percent more in summer 2021 than winter 2014.
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Apr 29, 2022 03:57
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Arsenic Lupin posted:That sounds wonderful. 1st_Panzer_Div. posted:Congrats Ragged on your new Thanks! Still seems a bit unreal but we start work on the house Saturday, hoping to move in by the end of the month. The PO's son has gone above and beyond getting the house cleaned up for us and the minor repairs the appraiser demanded look great. I kinda feel like I got the homework done and now I get to play... with tools!
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Apr 29, 2022 05:09
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For those of you looking in Portland, keep in mind that if you have kids, the school systems are better n basically every suburb except Gresham and like East Portland. Portland Public and David Douglas are just a total mess. You will also save money in most of the suburbs vs Portland, so unless you work downtown or something you can probably find somewhere cheaper with better schools that won’t be too bad of a drive.
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Apr 29, 2022 08:10
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therobit posted:For those of you looking in Portland, keep in mind that if you have kids, the school systems are better n basically every suburb except Gresham and like East Portland. Portland Public and David Douglas are just a total mess. You will also save money in most of the suburbs vs Portland, so unless you work downtown or something you can probably find somewhere cheaper with better schools that won’t be too bad of a drive. Aw dang, we have a little guy and were considering Gresham. What is one of the “good” suburbs?
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Apr 29, 2022 16:47
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Appraisal came back for the house we're in escrow on and surprise, it's low! The closest comp is the house next door, which sold a month ago, is a mirrored floor plan and on an identical lot. But that house was a shitshow, huge water stains on the ceiling, original everything. It was purchased all cash and is currently being gutted, new roof, etc. The house we're in escrow on is in much better condition. The roof/electrical/plumbing/kitchen were all updated in 2007 (house built in '78). Yet the only credit the appraiser gave our place compared to the one next door was 5k for double pane windows. As for the other 5 comps in the area, the adjustments are all like -10% cause we're on a busy street, +3% cause our lot is double the size. This poo poo is a racket.
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Apr 29, 2022 16:47
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