p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

my stepdads beer posted:

how are you guys managing to write webpages with performance issues

it's easier than u think!

# ? Sep 4, 2015 07:34

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 00:24

piratepilates: Mar 28, 2004; So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.

my stepdads beer posted:

how are you guys managing to write webpages with performance issues

Not me, but it can happen if you're making lots of changes to lots of data very often. Also sometimes the frameworks have a bunch of weirdo extra work they have to do, like angular has a 'digest cycle' where it goes through the list of every binding it keeps track of and sees if it has changed since the last cycle. For the most part the performance costs tend to be overblown IMO -- at that React talk that someone did where they showed a comparison of the speeds of frameworks there wasn't really a meaningful difference until the page was changing Dom elements so fast that it was unusable if it was a real app anyway.

Of course there's stuff that slows down the experience like ad injection and lots of async loading of assets, but none of that would be affected by threading.

# ? Sep 4, 2015 14:37

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

The digest cycle: The central design feature so great that they're removing it from AngularJS 2.0! (well, the bidirectional aspect of the data binding anyway).

God willing I'll never have to do more JS-heavy web dev any time soon but all the stuff about data binding in C# always left a sour taste in my mouth and now I know why. It entangles views and controllers together even more horribly than usual, and the so-called "separation of concerns" is a loving joke. It seems like giving up and loving with the DOM directly using jQuery or document.querySelector() is less of a faff on balance; I recently threw together a really lovely OAuth2 login screen by using JSoup (a Java HTML parsing library) of all things as a template engine, selecting node sets and stuffing text and attributes into those using its mutation API. Surprisingly painless, actually, and it should be seeing as that's basically how GUI apps worked and nobody complained about it back then.

idk I got into a big argument with this on IRC with a dude who works at Facebook, where he said that the JS community tried and explicitly rejected this approach long ago and I considered the cure (AngularJS and its ilk) to be worse than the disease.

http://www.workingsoftware.com.au/page/Your_templating_engine_sucks_and_everything_you_have_ever_written_is_spaghetti_code_yes_you

This guy also makes the same sort of point, albeit really clumsily (he has a very nonstandard definition of "spaghetti code", but I guess if you call it "entanglement of concerns" or something then it scans decently)

# ? Sep 4, 2015 14:52

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Mr Dog posted:

God willing I'll never have to do more JS-heavy web dev any time soon

get crackin' on those paternosters then cuz webdev is the big poo poo twinkie that we probably will all have to take a bite of

# ? Sep 4, 2015 14:59

piratepilates: Mar 28, 2004; So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.

The core developers for every front end framework seem to have a hard-on for making everything as simple and magic as possible, which just ends up making everything very complicated and hard to understand since nothing is going to fit your use case perfectly.

Except React, which does I've thing and one thing very simply and well. Might be able to say the same thing about flux and relay too.

Ember has a weird spot where it's supposed to be really simple and straightforward but over the past many releases you have to know what a route, controller, view, component, service, and soon routable components do, which is strange since they all do almost the same thing.

# ? Sep 4, 2015 16:09

Triglav: Jun 2, 2007; IT IS HARAAM TO SEND SMILEY FACES THROUGH THE INTERNET

my stepdads beer posted:

how are you guys managing to write webpages with performance issues

more javascript than html

# ? Sep 4, 2015 16:57

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

piratepilates posted:

The core developers for every front end framework seem to have a hard-on for making everything as simple and magic as possible, which just ends up making everything very complicated and hard to understand since nothing is going to fit your use case perfectly.

Except React, which does I've thing and one thing very simply and well. Might be able to say the same thing about flux and relay too.

Ember has a weird spot where it's supposed to be really simple and straightforward but over the past many releases you have to know what a route, controller, view, component, service, and soon routable components do, which is strange since they all do almost the same thing.

# ? Sep 4, 2015 17:13

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

kcpeppe
‏@kcpeppe
Unsettling event at Oracle. All of the Java evangelists have been let go. Sad this happened to a great dedicated enthusiastic group

# ? Sep 4, 2015 19:56

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

better move than ms firing all the sdets lol

# ? Sep 4, 2015 19:58

Ochowie: Nov 9, 2007

What exactly is the purpose of Java evangelists at this point? It's not exactly the scrappy new guy on the programming language block...

# ? Sep 4, 2015 20:04

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

they assure that the requisite amount of shaggarpoasting goes on in every forum

# ? Sep 4, 2015 20:08

ultramiraculous: Nov 12, 2003; "No..."; Grimey Drawer

piratepilates posted:

Except React, which does I've thing and one thing very simply and well. Might be able to say the same thing about flux and relay too.

these are all v good

# ? Sep 4, 2015 21:07

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

piratepilates posted:

has anyone really profiled any common use cases for web workers in mvc stuff?

not like computation-wise, but just like angular in general using it, would you actually see any real performance benefits?

i dont know. workers are always a terrible mess to deal with so i dont understand why these workers would be different

# ? Sep 4, 2015 23:31

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

i dont know. workers are always a terrible mess to deal with so i dont understand why these workers would be different

a fine thought for the labor day weekend

# ? Sep 5, 2015 00:09

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

i dont know. workers are always a terrible mess to deal with so i dont understand why these workers would be different

just put them in a union and reference the type you need

# ? Sep 5, 2015 00:26

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

JawnV6 posted:

just put them in a union and reference the type you need

# ? Sep 5, 2015 03:28

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

Ochowie posted:

What exactly is the purpose of Java evangelists at this point? It's not exactly the scrappy new guy on the programming language block...

sales

sometimes tech evangelism is literally just plain old sales, where they want you to buy a support contract. usually its more that they want to promote adoption, and not just adoption of the platform in general but adoption of the latest stuff, for all the strategic reasons they developed the tech in the first place. as a tech evangelist, you reach out to respected people because they help drive the reaction to your tech. e.g. if they blog/tweet, they might talk up your tech to an audience that trusts them. if they're end-product developers, maybe you can openly claim them as users in your pr. if they're dev-tool developers, supporting your tech in their tools might unblock wider adoption for the people who use them, so that people don't just go "well that's great, but i can't even think about doing this until X, Y, and Z", and all of those turn out to be 3-5 years out. all this goes double for early access, especially for tool writers, both because they can get a head-start on reacting but also because they have a chance to provide early feedback and maybe even get things changed to work better for them. in truth, that kind of access is always partly flattery, but it's also a pretty crucial way to validate whether the technology is actually useful and interesting to people, so that you don't just push something out the door only to see it fall flat on its face

anyway firing them all is actually very interesting

# ? Sep 5, 2015 04:05

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

sooo you're saying i still need salespeople even if my product is computer codes to sell to other computer mans? unpossible

# ? Sep 5, 2015 05:31

ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

hey PL thread is ruby dead yet

# ? Sep 5, 2015 15:34

AWWNAW: Dec 30, 2008

no it's the new PHP

# ? Sep 5, 2015 16:36

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

ahmeni posted:

hey PL thread is ruby dead yet

AWWNAW posted:

no it's the new PHP

kinda this, also kinda old rear end java webapps

# ? Sep 5, 2015 16:40

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

i really hate ruby as an applications programming language but i'm starting to really appreciate it as a scripting language

for instance, i needed something for jenkins that could easily compile configuration files and none of plugins were suiting:

code:

# recursively reads in any *.erb files in the working directory, 
# then, binds any vars declared in ARGF and passes them
# into the erb rendering context.

require 'erb'
b = binding()
eval(ARGF.read, b)
Dir.glob('**/*.erb').each do |d|
  File.open(d[0..-5], 'w') do |fw|
    fw.puts ERB.new(File.read(d)).result(b)
  end
end

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:01

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

triple sulk posted:

kinda this, also kinda old rear end java webapps

lol php will easily outlive ruby

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:18

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

PleasureKevin posted:

am i right in thinking that C# looks an awful lot like javascript except you declare stuff with int/float/string instead of var?

did anybody say no because you declare stuff with var in c#

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:22

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Tiny Bug Child posted:

lol php will easily outlive ruby

if you can call that living

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:23

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

code:

eval(ARGF.read, b)

lmao

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:27

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

Bloody posted:

lmao

now imagine ARGF is a database field or url parameters and you've just kicked up the fun factor of your web framework to 11

# ? Sep 5, 2015 17:33

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

Bloody posted:

did anybody say no because you declare stuff with var in c#

ya but var at least has a real purpose in c#. it's good in any linq query or anything else where you're expecting an anonymous type. you could use it in any method scope for any type but it's sort of dumb letting the compiler take its best guess. i dunno how much you were being sarcastic

reading about types in swift it looks pretty crazy but cool

# ? Sep 5, 2015 18:24

brap: Aug 23, 2004; Grimey Drawer

"take its best guess" uhh the compiler knows the type of the expression 95% of the time and the rest of the time you can use an explicitly typed variable declaration

# ? Sep 5, 2015 20:22

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

triple sulk posted:

kinda this, also kinda old rear end java webapps

any old rear end java webapp will be a million times more maintainable than any ruby/rails app.

# ? Sep 5, 2015 21:11

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

fleshweasel posted:

"take its best guess" uhh the compiler knows the type of the expression 95% of the time and the rest of the time you can use an explicitly typed variable declaration

reading about it more today yeah you're absolutely right. i'd still rather see explicit typing. knowing something is IEnumerable<T> or whatever is easier for me to understand than var. i got it in reverse, i'm the dumb one that takes my best guess :downs:

# ? Sep 5, 2015 22:29

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

if the type of the rhs is not obvious from looking at the expression you got bigger problems

# ? Sep 5, 2015 22:35

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Bloody posted:

if the type of the rhs is not obvious from looking at the expression you got bigger problems

What would those be?

# ? Sep 6, 2015 01:31

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

having bad code

# ? Sep 6, 2015 01:43

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

any old rear end java webapp will be a million times more maintainable than any ruby/rails app.

a fair point

# ? Sep 6, 2015 01:53

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Bloody posted:

having bad code

You are taking the set {(x, y) : (x, y) is good} and turning it into {(x, y) : (x, z) is good for all z}.

That's dumb.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 01:55

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I think shrughes is broken

# ? Sep 6, 2015 02:01

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

Bloody posted:

if the type of the rhs is not obvious from looking at the expression you got bigger problems

throw it on the pile with "never use goto under any circumstances", "only return from a single point", "if (0 == var)" and other such pointless dogmas

# ? Sep 6, 2015 02:08

brap: Aug 23, 2004; Grimey Drawer

single return is nice, but I prefer multiple return statements without mutation to declaring a result variable at the top and mutating it in various places in the body of a function before returning it.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 02:14

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 00:24

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

Symbolic Butt posted:

I think shrughes is broken

this is a well documented fact

# ? Sep 6, 2015 04:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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