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Comrade Fakename posted:Well, I quite clearly stated that there were legitimate concerns outside of “it isn’t like it was before”. But I would say that the amount of enthusiasm the Orville has received versus Discovery, when that show is unarguably an attempt to recreate TNG (+poo poo jokes) proves that a large contingent do think that way. I think you're probably right. I think it's at a confluence of a lot of things happening, though.
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Oct 1, 2018 16:52
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I got the impression that what they wanted to do with Michael was set up a redemption arc. You know, the idea is, Michael does something horrible for the sake of expediency at the beginning, and ends up finding herself in a situation under Lorca where she comes to realize just where that sort of thing leads... you know, it starts with killing a prisoner, and ends with S/M water bears. And then she has to find her way back to realizing why Starfleet and Federation values are so important. I just dont think they pulled it off.
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Oct 1, 2018 17:02
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Tighclops posted:This is why simply sticking STD in the 24th century as some suggest does nothing to solve the show's problems Not the most important problems, but some of the dumb continuity and SPOCK related ones.
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Oct 1, 2018 17:30
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Okay more DS9 watching: Defiant Now I finally know where that gif comes from!! I like it when Frakes shows up in things. Fascination I saw the description and was bracing for a horrible love potion episode. But then I got an amazing love potion episode. That was some fine direction from ac-tor Avery Brooks. Past Tense, Part I and II I know the thread has gone over how accurate this was. How do you think this episode would have been done in Discovery? Life Support RIP blandest man. I did want to see how far they'd push it, it reminded me of that conversation in Mass Effect where they're debating about the brain dead guy who's being driven by a VI. Heart of Stone The A-plot was so bad in this. I guess it confirms that Odo's people just make their faces look weird like his to try and make him like them or something, because apparently they can do a perfect Kira. Nog's plot was alright though. Destiny I really liked this one. Prophet Motive This one was okay.
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Oct 1, 2018 17:32
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The Bloop posted:Not the most important problems, but some of the dumb continuity and SPOCK related ones. I can almost guarantee you they would find some way to shoehorn Spock in there regardless of whenever the show is set Someone paid a lot of money for those focus groups and by god they're going to get their money's worth
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Oct 1, 2018 17:50
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Spock Trek III: the Spock for Spock
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Oct 1, 2018 20:02
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Spock Trek: Into Spock
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Oct 1, 2018 20:11
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I was putting together a playlist of moral conundrum/courtroom drama/social issue episodes from each series. Like, the best ones that are self-contained, mostly allegorical little televised plays with food for thought along the lines of "Measure of a Man." Maybe the best ones to hook somebody who is into social issues or ethical debates. Here's what I have so far, feedback welcome: TOS: -Balance of Terror -Arena -A Taste of Armageddon -Devil in the Dark -Let that be Your Last Battlefield TNG: -Measure of a Man -The Drumhead -Arsenal of Freedom -Who Watches the Watchers -The Defector -The Hunted -The Offspring -Devil's Due -First Contact -Half a Life -Darmok -Ethics -The Outcast -I, Borg -The First Duty -Quality of Life -Face of the Enemy -Rightful Heir DS9: -Captive Pursuit -Dax -Battle Lines -Progress -Duet -In the Hands of the Prophets -Cardassians -Paradise -Tribunal -Second Skin -Life Support -Hippocratic Oath -Homefront -Hard Time -To the Death -For the Uniform -Children of Time -Rocks and Shoals -Statistical Probabilities -Waltz -Far Beyond the Stars -In the Pale Moonlight -It's Only a Paper Moon -Inter Arma Silen Leges Voyager: -Phage -Ex Post Facto -Jetrel -Emanations -Prototype -Meld -Death Wish -Lifesigns -Tuvix -Innocence -Alter Ego -Distant Origin -Nemesis -Random Thoughts -Mortal Coil -Living Witness -Counterpoint -Latent Image -Memorial -Warhead -Riddles -Critical Care -Flesh and Blood -Lineage -Repentance Enterprise: -The Andorian Incident -Dear Doctor -Shadows of P'Jem -Detained -Carbon Creek -Stigma -Judgement -Cogenitor -The Shipment -Twilight -North Star -Demons/Terra Prime
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Oct 1, 2018 20:13
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I think The Enemy (TNG) would fit, but it is pretty heavy in lore even though the specific plot is pretty self-contained.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:20
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womb with a view posted:Past Tense, Part I and II I know the thread has gone over how accurate this was. How do you think this episode would have been done in Discovery? Can't believe I missed this but I genuinely don't believe anybody at the writer/producer level on that show has had the kind of life experience to make them even think of doing a story like Past Tense. The fact that we're hearing more about another mystery box involving Spock and more Section 31 stories shows where their mindset is at, and it's not one conducive to telling stories relevant to the kind of viewers that aren't dumping two grand on replica model starships that were onscreen for all of 12 seconds Tighclops fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 20:21
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For TOS you might want to have Court Martial in there, as the original Trek courtroom drama episode. It’s not very good example of the type, but you have Last Battlefield in there which is a gigantic bore, so whatever. You should definitely add Conscience of the King, which is not an actual courtroom drama but is chronically underrated and definitely has an ethical dilemma at heart. Honestly more than half of TOS could probably be described as self-contained morality plays though.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:26
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Spock Trek III: the Spock for Spock I heard you like Spock so I put Spock in your Trek so you can Spock while you watch
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Oct 1, 2018 20:29
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Brawnfire posted:I heard you like Spock so I put Spock in your Trek so you can Spock while you watch To do otherwise would be illspockical
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Oct 1, 2018 20:31
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skasion posted:For TOS you might want to have Court Martial in there, as the original Trek courtroom drama episode. It’s not very good example of the type, but you have Last Battlefield in there which is a gigantic bore, so whatever. Oh, yeah, thanks. I don't remember those episodes too well (including Battlefield) so that's why I asked. I'm taking suggestions for ones to strike from the list if they suck and I've just forgotten. Also forgot about Past Tense, glad the previous poster brought that up.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:37
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TNG Chain of Command Part 2 would be good for that list if you can ignore part 1 not really having much in the way of social issues. Also, TNG The Pegasus.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:48
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I was putting together a playlist of moral conundrum/courtroom drama/social issue episodes from each series. Like, the best ones that are self-contained, mostly allegorical little televised plays with food for thought along the lines of "Measure of a Man." Maybe the best ones to hook somebody who is into social issues or ethical debates. Here's what I have so far, feedback welcome: TOS "The Menagerie" meets the criteria.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:48
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For TOS you're missing Spock's Brain.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:56
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Pakled posted:TNG Chain of Command Part 2 would be good for that list if you can ignore part 1 not really having much in the way of social issues. And of course you can't watch The Pegasus without watching These are the Voyages, or you'll never understand Riker's motivation.
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Oct 1, 2018 20:59
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Al Borland Korn posted:And of course you can't watch The Pegasus without watching These are the Voyages, or you'll never understand Riker's motivation. Nice Halloween avatar.
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Oct 1, 2018 21:26
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Nice Halloween avatar. I made the mistake of closing a Nintendo thread for getting too horny
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Oct 1, 2018 21:47
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Al Borland Korn posted:I made the mistake of closing a Nintendo thread for getting too horny Hell of a sentence to read there, Al. 
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Oct 2, 2018 00:00
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I was putting together a playlist of moral conundrum/courtroom drama/social issue episodes from each series. Like, the best ones that are self-contained, mostly allegorical little televised plays with food for thought along the lines of "Measure of a Man." Maybe the best ones to hook somebody who is into social issues or ethical debates. Here's what I have so far, feedback welcome: DISCO: -S1
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Oct 2, 2018 01:34
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"A Private Little War" (from TOS) is also a good 'moral conundrum' episode that I don't think gets the appreciation it should. I much prefer Kirk's technique of looking at the Prime Directive on a case-by-case basis to the TNG era's fundamentalist adherence to it.
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Oct 2, 2018 01:57
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I don't know if The City on the Edge of Forever counts as a morality episode, because time travel doesn't actually exist. But I like how it explores the idea that it may be better to just leave the past alone, even if it means saving a good person from an early death (as in this episode) or perhaps getting rid of a bad person early (like fiction that explores going back in time to kill Hitler before the war) because things may well just turn out worse in the end even if you've done a theoretically good deed.
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Oct 2, 2018 03:02
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BattleMaster posted:I don't know if The City on the Edge of Forever counts as a morality episode, because time travel doesn't actually exist. But I like how it explores the idea that it may be better to just leave the past alone, even if it means saving a good person from an early death (as in this episode) or perhaps getting rid of a bad person early (like fiction that explores going back in time to kill Hitler before the war) because things may well just turn out worse in the end even if you've done a theoretically good deed.
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Oct 2, 2018 03:13
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Lil Hitler will just cause a Third Reich in space before returning to his own time to start the Fifth Reich. Better to just kill him.
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Oct 2, 2018 03:28
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Drink-Mix Man posted:moral conundrum/courtroom drama/social issue episodes This was totally TNG's thing, at least during its middle years, so I'd also recommend:
Probably some more I'll think of later.
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Oct 2, 2018 04:18
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For ENT, I'd consider adding Similitude and Observer Effect.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:44
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Nessus posted:I think the kill-Hitler thing is actually just a stalking horse for "Great Man" vs. "Impersonal economic forces" in terms of historical interpretation. What's interesting is that nobody takes the alternative route of kidnapping the wee baby Hitler. Just take him with you to the future! That's the evil baby orphanage plan.
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Oct 2, 2018 11:27
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The Homefront and Paradise Lost two-parter is a moral story about how society deals with terrorism that was made almost 6 years before 9/11. It's better than anything made after. Discovery's writers and producers would never make an episode like this. FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 12:45
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The timestamp of the explosion at the Antwerp Conference is 5911 -- coincidence???
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Oct 2, 2018 15:34
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Tsaedje posted:The timestamp of the explosion at the Antwerp Conference is 5911 -- coincidence??? Power grid failure was an inside job
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Oct 2, 2018 15:38
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Founders can't melt duranium beams
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Oct 2, 2018 17:11
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I found it a bit odd how the Changeling infiltrator plot just kind of went away around Season 5.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:26
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FlamingLiberal posted:I found it a bit odd how the Changeling infiltrator plot just kind of went away around Season 5. Isn't that when they figured out how to detect them?
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Oct 2, 2018 17:28
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Nessus posted:I think the kill-Hitler thing is actually just a stalking horse for "Great Man" vs. "Impersonal economic forces" in terms of historical interpretation. What's interesting is that nobody takes the alternative route of kidnapping the wee baby Hitler. Just take him with you to the future! Two ideas: 1) "leave Hitler in power" is potentially the best case scenario 2) time travel depends on a timeline with Hitler
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Oct 2, 2018 17:33
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Isn't that when they figured out how to detect them? We did see in one episode where one changeling managed to fool the rest of the crew by swapping out the blood during the screening.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:36
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Sash! posted:Two ideas: 3) by the time time travel is created, no one cares about the hitler question, much like no one ever proposes using a time machine to kill baby Genghis kahn or something.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:42
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"going back in time is a really huge thing, are you sure this warrants it?" "Well the guy killed millions of Jews in the name of German supremacy" "What's Jews? And German?" "They tried to take over Europe!" "My what?" "We have to smother fascism in its cradle!" "Right, we don't want it to get as bad as it's gotten. One more question, what's fascism?"
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Oct 2, 2018 18:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:They know how to find them but it was mainly with blood screenings. There were those things that they took with them to the Klingon party that forces them into a liquid state or something. I don't remember the circumstances of those things but just pretend they put them everywhere.
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