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The long rang version was also meant for poo poo like oceanic recon and sub patrol.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:12
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aphid_licker posted:It's kinda wacky that the whole reason you made the bomb for only accounts for 40% of the bomb's mass. It's even "worse" in artillery; I believe the 16 inch shell on the Iowas only had about 140lbs of explosive in a 2700lb shell. This is because, as with bombs, you need something sturdy enough to survive piercing enemy armor, but it also needs to survive the stress of being fired out of a cannon at 2700fps.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:12
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darthbob88 posted:It's even "worse" in artillery; I believe the 16 inch shell on the Iowas only had about 140lbs of explosive in a 2700lb shell. The 2700lb shell had a 50lb payload, as a bursting charge. The 1950lb "high capacity" shell had the 140lb charge, so it was really only high capacity relative to the AP round. Didn't the Skyraider have a bombload equal to the max bomb load of a B-17? And that plane started service in 1945 or thereabouts.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:18
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On technothrillers, yes there were corny and most of them don't withstand scrutiny, but I'd read another WW3 book or cold war spy thriller over modern counter-terrorism novels any day. Instead of cheesy WW3 narratives, we have special operations deniable ops with mercenary teams fighting terrorist atomic bombs in X-istan. Even worse than what came before. For bomb-loads, I expect that new aircraft will see an increase of bomb-loads, back towards late Cold-War levels. The development of anti-smart bomb defenses means that the days of one-bomb, one-target are coming to an end. Also, as more planes are needed for defense suppression, we'll see the need for higher weapon loads for the bombers.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:25
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Terrible Robot posted:Undoubtedly Clive spent at least a paragraph talking about the Cord being front wheel drive and how this made for better snow traction, too, I'll wager. Hell, he spends half the books describing the contents of every meal. It's like the foodie version of ABLE Team weapons porn.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:30
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Workers found 20,000 engineering drawings and diagrams for the Mosquito bomber at one of the factories producing it while they were starting to demolish it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/06/discovery-lost-ww2-mosquito-plans-will-allow-wooden-wonder-fly/
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Aug 7, 2017 18:17
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Oh speaking of modern techno-thrillers I don't think anyones mentioned Ghost Fleet yet from a couple of years back. It's by the Wired For War guy with a co-writer and it's basically an attempt to write a modern Red Storm Rising with a USA vs China match-up. It's readable, with some interesting speculative near-future tech. But neither has the story telling chops of early Clancy and Jesus wept if you thought the whole Iceland sub-plot from RSR was bad, wait until you get a look at the vengeful female serial killer sub-plot they have in this.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:29
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So what are the good Clancy books? Also, what is an "anti smart bomb defence?"
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Aug 7, 2017 18:49
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JcDent posted:So what are the good Clancy books? Without Remorse is usually the cut off date people recommend, anything before that (with the exception of Sum of All Fears) is halfway decent. Red Rabbit is also sort of good but mainly because Jack Ryan is almost a non-event in it. After that you get into the flavor of the year in terms of which nationalist Clancy was afraid of. Debt of Honor is about Japan (2/3 years after Japan reached its peak and then the Nikkei collapsed), Executive Orders is about Iran/Iraq (3/4 years after Desert Storm), Rainbow Six is about terrorist/militia groups (with a smattering of econuts) 3/4 years after Waco, Bear and the Dragon is about China.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:59
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Rainbow Six was... something, definitely something. Heart beat sensors, too.
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Aug 7, 2017 19:07
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JcDent posted:Rainbow Six was... something, definitely something. Heart beat sensors, too. Dale Brown's books have the B-2's stealth attributed to a plasma shell cloaking device and the F22 flying in the 90s. I at least have to give him credit for a coherent vision of foreign policy heavy bombers are the answer to all crises
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Aug 7, 2017 19:33
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JcDent posted:Also, what is an "anti smart bomb defence?"
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Aug 7, 2017 19:37
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Pantsir sales literature includes selling points like "we can shoot down Hellfire missiles and JDAMs."
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Aug 7, 2017 19:41
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JcDent posted:
Edit:Repeatedly ninja'd Second Edit: Oh and mission kill systems like GPS jammers etc.
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Aug 7, 2017 19:42
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Man, I already find the fact that Pantsirs are mounted on a Kamaz chasis - that cabin was a very distinctive part of my childhood, usually as some dump truck or garbage truck - so the only way they'd be funnier if it was literally CIWSbot on a blue GAZ.
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Aug 7, 2017 19:45
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JcDent posted:So what are the good Clancy books?
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Aug 7, 2017 19:46
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Sperglord posted:On technothrillers, yes there were corny and most of them don't withstand scrutiny, but I'd read another WW3 book or cold war spy thriller over modern counter-terrorism novels any day. Instead of cheesy WW3 narratives, we have special operations deniable ops with mercenary teams fighting terrorist atomic bombs in X-istan. Even worse than what came before. You won't theoretically see an increase in the number of planes or carry weight though, because of scaled down munitions. You can fit 4 SDB I/II in the space a 1000lb JDAM, which means both the F-35 and F-22 can carry 4 per internal bay alongside an AMRAAM in each. The F-15E has the hard points to carry ludicrous amounts of SDBs. The Brits are already after a follow on to Brimstone in SPEAR 3 which is a roughly hellfire class weapon with a projected 120km range from fixed wing. Those are carried in racks of 3 by Tornados and Typhoons. Mazz fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 19:47
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Right now I'm reading a SF book from the early 90s called "Cold Allies". I haven't read it since high school or thereabouts. It is not really dad fiction, though it does feature lasers for shooting down satellites and virtual reality mini-tanks. They have these remote piloted, grand-piano sized, nuclear powered tanks with bullet-proof hulls and retractable missile tubes- Oh and robot arm manipulators, naturally. It's a fairly prescient book, though people familiar with drone operations would find how they run their robot pilots hilarious. One person pilots one tank, and when they go offline they hide their very expensive tank in a bush, like saving and loading a video game.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:01
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General Battuta posted:Dale Brown's books have the B-2's stealth attributed to a plasma shell cloaking device and the F22 flying in the 90s. I at least have to give him credit for a coherent vision of foreign policy heavy bombers are the answer to all crises Fun development in aerospace academia: Using ionic plasma generators to get noticeable flow characteristic improvements on Wing trailing edges
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Aug 7, 2017 20:09
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I read R6 after playing the game an unhealthy amount so it was a much better book having played though it beforehand.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:15
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SSN is also semi decent but only because it's entirely focused on sub combat so there's no opportunities to talk about a Japanese string bean.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:21
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mlmp08 posted:Pantsir sales literature includes selling points like "we can shoot down Hellfire missiles and JDAMs." Its pretty neat how Russian military equipment is better in every way than all other comparable products. Decades ahead of countries spending far more on R&D.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:28
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Murgos posted:Its pretty neat how Russian military equipment is better in every way than all other comparable products. Decades ahead of countries spending far more on R&D. It's handy that the only way to disprove the claims is by being turbofucked by the USAF, so anyone who wants to get a refund will already have been mostly blown to smithereens.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:36
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mlmp08 posted:Pantsir sales literature includes selling points like "we can shoot down Hellfire missiles and JDAMs." The worst part of this is that it gets implemented in DCS World.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:38
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priznat posted:It's handy that the only way to disprove the claims is by being turbofucked by the USAF, so anyone who wants to get a refund will already have been mostly blown to smithereens. Good God, man! That's golden. Post that in the "Russian Humor" section of wikipedia, and see how long it stays. Part of me thinks the war in Ukraine is a pretty convenient way to eliminate a major arms export competitor to Russia. Crank (back) up the Kalashnikov machines!
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Aug 7, 2017 21:56
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To be fair the USSR has like 60 years of actually producing SHORAD systems of merit in comparison to the US or even most of the Western nations. I don't outright believe the Tor or Pantsir can shoot down a SDB but it's not completely crazy to think they probably can under the right circumstances. It's a worse idea to assume that we can just use F-22s and SDBs to door kick the Chinese or Russians like we did the Iraqis, since we can't really afford to be wrong in that situation.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:06
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If I were Russia I would be more worried about cheap, high quality Chinese arms stealing all the sales.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:09
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I read one or two Joe Buff books once, from what I remember he's Dale Brown but with submarines. Here's the amazon blurb for one of the books I remember reading: quote:Reactionary enemy regimes have brutally taken command in South Africa and Germany. U.S. and European shipping lanes are suddenly under attack. World War is at hand -- and for the ruthless Berlin–Boer Axis, the devastating weapons of choice will be tactical nukes used at sea. It was dumb but also owned.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:09
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General Battuta posted:Dale Brown's books have the B-2's stealth attributed to a plasma shell cloaking device What book is this in? None of the ones I've read (two of which feature the B-2) have anything of the sort.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:15
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The Joe Buff books were fun, though I think at one point he leaves the sub to lead a commando raid deep inland but I may be mixing my books up. It felt like the sub on sub combat was decently realistic and aside from the lol berlin-boer axis, the idea of nuclear sea fights seems in the realm of possibility.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:22
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priznat posted:It's handy that the only way to disprove the claims is by being turbofucked by the USAF, so anyone who wants to get a refund will already have been mostly blown to smithereens. "We are sorry very to hear you no like your weapons. We would be pleasured to offer proceedings of RMA, but require safe extraction environment and will need four to six weeks to process claim that is yours. It is sincerest wish of ours that you still are able to speak and breathe after this time of period, and would like to remind that weapons ruined by violence are not covered by warranty of guarantee." "Sergei! Locate GLONASS beacon on our poo poo and email location to US Air Force. Anonymously."
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Aug 7, 2017 22:30
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Hitting something like an SDB is not that much of an ask for a modern SAM system.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:37
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Really the missile has got to cost a fuckload more than the bomb, and you can drop a ton of bombs at once.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:39
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bewbies posted:Hitting something like an SDB is not that much of an ask for a modern SAM system.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:44
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The cost to compare the missile to isn't the cost of the bomb, it's the cost of the thing the missile protects from getting blown to hell. If I fire a $1,000,000 missile to shoot down a $10,000 bomb, that's still fine if the cost of not firing is is that a $100,000,000 airplane or vital ammunition depot turns into a lot of small pieces. And systems like Iron Dome are sophisticated enough to only engage incoming that's going to strike something important. If it's a Katyusha that's going to come down in an empty field, the system won't engage.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:44
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my kinda ape posted:Really the missile has got to cost a fuckload more than the bomb, and you can drop a ton of bombs at once. Yeah it seems that the unit cost for the SDB is crazy low. Dunno about the SDB II though.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:45
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Phanatic posted:And systems like Iron Dome are sophisticated enough to only engage incoming that's going to strike something important. If it's a Katyusha that's going to come down in an empty field, the system won't engage. Plus didnt the US use a truckbound Phalanx to shoot at mortars? They have a tiny RCS, no reason the SDB would suddenly be unable to be intercepted that I can think of from public domain info.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:48
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evil_bunnY posted:Really the cool thing SDB's do is saturate defense systems without costing $kidney a piece, isn't it. You could try that approach I guess but it doesn't seem like a great idea if your opponent has a couple of heavier missile systems in play.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:48
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Mazz posted:It's a worse idea to assume that we can just use F-22s and SDBs to door kick the Chinese or Russians like we did the Iraqis, since we can't really afford to be wrong in that situation. I had a 90 minute version of this conversation with some Navy weapons school types today. Lots of shoulders were shrugged in hopelessness. Edit: Hopelessness in fixing the problem, not that we'd be wiped out.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:53
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Phanatic posted:The cost to compare the missile to isn't the cost of the bomb, it's the cost of the thing the missile protects from getting blown to hell. If I fire a $1,000,000 missile to shoot down a $10,000 bomb, that's still fine if the cost of not firing is is that a $100,000,000 airplane or vital ammunition depot turns into a lot of small pieces. bewbies posted:You could try that approach I guess but it doesn't seem like a great idea if your opponent has a couple of heavier missile systems in play. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 22:57
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