|
Tesseraction posted:To be honest machine translation is pretty good for European languages these days. I have no doubt that we are going to see more events like this, it’s just that until now, Dolomiti dislodging happened on the lower loose rock area rather than on the glaciers. The glacier fell not that far from lodging/restaurants that were considered a safe area until now https://www.rainews.it/amp/video/20...855ccf61e3.html
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 11:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 17:25 |
|
|
Yeah... that's way too close for me to consider it safe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 11:40
|
|
|
i saw a pic of the glacier and it's obviously small and disappearing. increasing safety issues aside, it just seems too sad to walk on
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 15:06
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:
The finger on the monkey paw curls. Anyway, the Dolomiti permafrost is virtually a memory of the past - it is absolutely CC related as we're in the middle of what seems to be a three months long heatwave, after having dangerously low amounts of rain during the winter. The Dolomiti are currently above 0°C most of the day, and the mixture of ground and ice their soil is made of is slowly melting. Char fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jul 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Sounds like a bump, but it's not. If anyone's curious to know what a complete travesty has been going on today, feel free to ask. But it's a terrible day to be Italian.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
Char posted:Sounds like a bump, but it's not. I'm currently running on Slovenian power while the Terna power hookup, railway, highway and water filtering systems are inoperable or burning the gently caress down. I currently give zero fucks about the latest voting farce as I am wondering if my office is burning down too today.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 21:21
|
|
|
What was it that drove M5S to break with Draghi so publicly and such that he cannot get them back on board?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 21:29
|
|
|
i'd love a good rundown on what's likely to happen from here as well
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2022 21:35
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I'm currently running on Slovenian power while the Terna power hookup, railway, highway and water filtering systems are inoperable or burning the gently caress down. I currently give zero fucks about the latest voting farce as I am wondering if my office is burning down too today. Sup fire buddy, I'm close to the Massarosa one  stay safe!Tesseraction posted:What was it that drove M5S to break with Draghi so publicly and such that he cannot get them back on board? i say swears online posted:i'd love a good rundown on what's likely to happen from here as well Ohhh boy. It's kinda hard to explain because there's no rational reason, and it's going to be long. Mind you, we don't really know yet what the exact reasons were, this is what I think is reasonable conjecture on my behalf. Let's start with basic context, what happened, and then I'll go back to the context since there's a lot to unpack. Basic context: the Draghi government is based on an agreement between pretty much every party, taking strong initiatives only on high priority matters; Conte, the only M5S figurehead left, for unclear reasons, perhaps an internal power struggle, chose to stop being part of this government; Draghi has no intention to pursue a political career in Italy (except going for President of the Republic); Current polls show Fratelli D'Italia being able to reach easily a majority if supported by Lega and Forza Italia. What happened: Last Thursday, there has been a vote on a proposal called "Disegno di Legge Aiuti", it translates roughly to "Population Help Proposal". I'll be back on this later, but it touched a terrible law which passed during the second Conte government - this means M5S wrote it. The aforementioned struggle ended up with forcing M5S parliament members to abstain from voting, the proposal passed nonetheless. Draghi offered then his resignation to Sergio Mattarella (the current POTR) because, according to him, the basic agreement the government was built upon was breached. Mattarella declined his resignation and sent him to try and form a new government. Draghi spoke to the Parliament today, he stated that the only new government he would've accepted being part of would've been a government based on the same agreement they had before - therefore, either everyone is part of it, or we're done. Lega and Forza Italia voted against this proposal, M5S abstained from voting. The proposal actually was approved by an absolute majority, but it was clearly unacceptable. Draghi will resign tomorrow. Lots of words now. Context: 1) Let's start with the birth of the now dying government: we took Draghi because the second Conte government should have handled access to the NRRP funds. According to myths, Matteo Renzi chose to pull the plug on that government to make sure *someone else* rather than the previous government would've chose how to direct the funds. It was January 2021. A few weeks later, the last and most prestigious person we had for the role of Prime Minister, Mario Draghi, formed a government picking from every single party (except Fratelli D'Italia). M5S? You bet, they're those with the most seats in our Parliament. Lega? Cannot have a majority without them. Partito Democratico? They would've supported literally anything! Hell, he took people from Forza Italia, Italia Viva (Renzi's new party, after splitting from the Democratic Party) and even from LEU (Liberi ed Uguali, would translate to Free and Equal), the slightly-leftier-party-compared-to-PD. Everyone got in. The general idea was that the objectives of this new government would've been strictly emergency-related: -the pandemic; -making sure Italy would've gotten all that NRRP cash. The subtle point is that these points were strictly outside the parties' mandate - the Parliament would've handled anything else, as that was the only expression of the people's will left. Well, Draghi ran a hardline government. Strong social distancing laws, almost forced vaccination plans, mandatory mask, going strongly against Russia after the war started. The only party I think was somewhat aligned to his views was Partito Democratico, each other party, and some lobbies too, had to compromise on the few policies this government enforced. So, the point is: Draghi has never been a welcome guest in the Italian political landscape, and the population is lukewarm on him as well. 2) In the meanwhile, if you remember the opening post, our Parliament had a three way split between three completely different parties, and for a couple years two of these three parties had the chance to run the country, M5S was part of the government twice before Draghi. Remember the terrible law I mentioned earlier? Well, in May 2020, the current government - the so called Conte 2 - approved a law that allowed people to fully renovate their houses if the renovation would've made the building demonstrably better in terms of energy efficiency. For whoever visited Italy, it is obvious renovations are very invasive tasks because or houses are very old and pretty much exclusively made of brick and stone. Now you're asking, "why should this be a law? can't people renovate their houses freely?" - yeah! Sure they could. But it costs a ton of money. The law stated that the State would've payed 110% of the renovation costs. The general idea was that this law would've managed to increase the value of very old buildings, to allow everyone to renovate despite their economic status, and to keep the construction industry afloat during these trying pandemic times. The budget allocated for this law, according to estimates, would've lasted until 2036. Makes sense, right? But, once again, there's a catch. The catch-within-the-catch is that access to this funding was not regulated. And, there is another kinda catch, but it's not really a surprise actually. Regulating costs, overseeing proper management of the renovation project? Nahh, we don't need that. You know what actually happened? Two things: first, that most rich people went and renovated their many valuable houses, because it was extremely easy to access first to the funds. Second, frauds. Frauds everywhere, because there isn't any strong verification system. Big and expensive houses got renovated for free, and the costs of such renovations were left to decide to the construction companies. 30 billion Euros were allocated for this law. They've been all spent. (The law that started this all was a hot debate issue because Draghi actually wanted to stop the funding, while M5S was adamant in saying that it was part of its core policies) 3) M5S split. M5S came at its natural end - back to nothing. It had very little political talent to spend, it had no vision, it had no clear objectives, values, identity. After 5 years of governing, it was ripped to political shreds by every single sphere of power it entered contact with. Exposing how void of any planning it was made it clear it had no business in governing anything. As it is custom with Italian politics, it managed to create a narrative supporting two men in the role of the Man of Providence: Luigi Di Maio, which managed to not completely humiliate Italy during his Ministry of Foreign Affairs mandate, and Giuseppe Conte, the former PM who came from outside the politics sphere. Once the consensus towards M5S started tanking, the party started panicking and somehow managed to end up shooting itself in the foot - Conte wasn't in agreement with Di Maio, he tried to get back some consensus in an attempt to devour Di Maio, the plan backfired: Di Maio left M5S and took with him part of the parliament seats M5S had. It has been documented that other M5S relevant figures, such as Fabiana Dadone, Stefano Patuanelli and Federico D'Incà, all three Ministries of the soon-to-be-shut-down governent, didn't really want to follow through with the opening move - Conte forcing the abstain. 4) Salvini (note I'm using last names a lot rather than party abbreviations - we REALLY like conflating a political party to a single person, don't we?) dropped like a rock. He had the most voted party in recent history, now Lega isn't as liked anymore. That's because after inadvertently shutting down the first Conte government, all the poo poo he pulled came back at him - he pretty much ran the Ministry of Internal Affairs as his personal propaganda machine. He was recently surpassed by Giorgia Meloni's Fratelli D'Italia party, which is a straight reactionary right-wing party. He needs to do something-quick. 5) Partito Democratico is still unable to represent any clear ideal, political idea, movement, section - it's a lib party but advertises itself as a left-wing party. The usual saying as how American Democrats would be a centre-right party in Europe? This is them. They're stable at their 20% approval rate since... forever, because that's their undying followership. That's why they were more than happy to support Draghi. 6) Draghi's government, to any unbiased opinion, has had many flaws. Partly because of its open intentions of not wanting to step on the Parliament's toes, partly because it defaulted to the easiest policy to enforce after checking what our lobbies had to say. We had a lot to learn from the pandemic, we actually implemented nothing to make sure its negative effects would afflict us too much: -we really want to have free/very cheap healthcare - hell, it's probably one of the few things left which really define our national identity - but our health system is completely understaffed, underpaid, in many cases underequipped and underorganized; -we really want to keep schools open and avoid remote classes, but we didn't spend a single penny on renovating schools and setupping proper HVAC systems. Economy-wise, ours is the only country in Europe whose wages actually got lower in the last 30 years and this government did nothing about it. The National Statistics Institute, in its last poverty report, has shown us that the wealth divide has increased during the last 3 years, and poverty is at its historic maximum. Nothing was done towards this - actually, Lega wants to propose a flat tax system instead of the slightly progressive taxation system we have now. Still, anyone analyzing this government needs to keep in mind that it had to compromise with the result of our 2018 elections. 7) It's assumed Draghi is gunning for NATO or becoming the Italian POTR. He has no interest in risking any misstep fighting in the mud with the idiots running our parties. 8) and the most damning point. We're going to enter a really rough period, and I'm being too light on words - the Russia-Ukraine war is exacerbating the miopy Europe had in terms of energy policy, the pandemic is going to strike hard again this fall, inflation is running rampant and we need to get the 3rd part of our NRRP funds. Who the hell wants to actually have to deal with all this now? --- wow it's 2:42 AM here, gotta stop now. I didn't proofread this wall of text, I hope I shed some light on our situation. As usual, every other Italian goon is more than welcome to correct anything I might have misreported and/or expressed with too much bias; feel free to ask more specific questions, I tried to describe the current landscape because it doesn't really make any sense to us even knowing the whole picture, I can only wonder what it might look like to foreign observers. There's still a lot to be said, for instance wrt our position towards the war, on how some of our parties stuck their fingers in the Russian pie, on how Fratelli D'Italia is about to give us our first female rightwing reactionary PM, on the complete absence of politicians who inspire any modicum of competence... Char fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 01:44
|
|
|
thank you for that writeup!
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 04:37
|
|
|
The write up is mostly correct, the only item i feel to disagree on(since a good chunk of my family works in the sphere of the former MIUR) is the zero investment in covid countermeasures in schools. Money got spent, hand over fist, only in bullshit measures. Wheeled tables to convert close knit k12 play/study rooms in distanced learning spaces, regardless of the fact kids would likely gotten hurt by the unstable wheelies falling on them? Check! Shitload of IT endpoints funds to purchase whatever type of computer for DAD, possibly skipping the CONSIP/MEPA process due to lack of time and no monitoring over the equipment quality? Check! Immense amounts of employees doing chud things and no longer being able to go to the office got managed by doing temp workers while keeping the novax/nomask willfull employed and paid. Just these three point burned a sizable hole in the recovery fund part of the MIUR cash. There are a lot of other nonsense that got spent too but those items are local/regional rather than national.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 06:27
|
|
|
Char posted:As usual, every other Italian goon is more than welcome to correct anything I might have misreported and/or expressed with too much bias; feel free to ask more specific questions, I tried to describe the current landscape because it doesn't really make any sense to us even knowing the whole picture, I can only wonder what it might look like to foreign observers. Great post and I mostly agree with it (except the part about Di Maio not embarrassing Italy as a foreign affairs minister. It was very embarrassing. Still is.), though the real problem we have is that the world is changing and changing fast, and our politicians - even the "young" ones - think and act like dinosaurs. I believe it's because we are and we have always been a gerontocracy, where older people are assumed to always and automatically be more wise and right, and this clashes HARD with the general populace sentiments especially re: working conditions, LGBT and racism issues, new ways to work (internet, online shopping, "smart"working and so on), and more. It's become abundantly clear (especially with the refusal of letting us have a referendum on cannabis and euthanasia, but letting the idiotic referendum on justice through and no one went to vote it) that the politicians and every other power node in the country - judges, police forces, entrepreneurs etc - are disconnected from reality and don't give a gently caress about Italy and Italians but only about keeping most everything as is so they can keep doing their thing (which includes corruption, nepotism and getting pensions on our dime). I don't see a solution here , M5S was supposed to be "the way out" of this system and got voted up to 30% from nothing only because of this... And lol, lmao, we saw how it ended. I believe our best chance now is going to vote and have a M5S (or better, people roughly aligned with the "liberal, progressive, for the people" ideas M5S originally advertised themselves with, and willing to listen to young and average people's concerns because M5S proper is dead in the water now) + PD coalition to try and get a somewhat left-leaning government next and avoid a full on right wing government which would crack down real hard on every aspect like minimum allowed salary, immigration, worker rights, civil and social rights etc. PD+5S or whoever takes 5S's place is still not ideal, especially with PD always taking the lukewarmest safest stances to avoid even slightly miffing anyone in fear of losing one vote, but better than the alternative at least in my mind.  E: let me also say that I don't buy the whole "Draghi is the best" thing. Looks to me like any other businessman, only caring about his own pockets and his own objectives which seem to be very precisely aligned with those of big banks/Europe both of which I kinda don't like, I don't believe those are aligned with what the people want or need and let's remember the State is an expression of the People first and foremost. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 06:34
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:Great post and I mostly agree with it (except the part about Di Maio not embarrassing Italy as a foreign affairs minister. It was very embarrassing. Still is.), though the real problem we have is that the world is changing and changing fast, and our politicians - even the "young" ones - think and act like dinosaurs. I believe it's because we are and we have always been a gerontocracy, where older people are assumed to always and automatically be more wise and right, and this clashes HARD with the general populace sentiments especially re: working conditions, LGBT and racism issues, new ways to work (internet, online shopping, "smart"working and so on), and more. It's become abundantly clear (especially with the refusal of letting us have a referendum on cannabis and euthanasia, but letting the idiotic referendum on justice through and no one went to vote it) that the politicians and every other power node in the country - judges, police forces, entrepreneurs etc - are disconnected from reality and don't give a gently caress about Italy and Italians but only about keeping most everything as is so they can keep doing their thing (which includes corruption, nepotism and getting pensions on our dime). The euthanasia/cannabis referendum main issue is that it has always been pushed by the extreme left(which has always been seen as a crowd of clowns) and considered radioactive by the rest of the political spectrum. If Pannella asks for something, every sane man on the planet would consider it stupid on a good day and Bonino now inherited that role. M5S main issue was being a teaparty-lite without a clear plan beyond "gently caress the system". Every structured item was a way to graft or gently caress us over, snively marketed as a good thing. Once they ran out of marketable ideas(and their "honest" political pick ended more than once in police custody), they floated around since Italy doesn't have a clear way to tell "This goverment fucks needs to go" beyond hoping someone in the parliament does seppuku with a vote of no confidence. As it is I'm expecting a fratelli d'italia + lega JV which are the most marketable faces for the masses, PD is still considered as a team of wind vanes after the Renzi empasse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 07:37
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:The euthanasia/cannabis referendum main issue is that it has always been pushed by the extreme left(which has always been seen as a crowd of clowns) and considered radioactive by the rest of the political spectrum. If Pannella asks for something, every sane man on the planet would consider it stupid on a good day and Bonino now inherited that role. Sure, anything extreme won't cut it here, goes for the left same as the right. Centrism has been dominant since... forever, afaik. Of course that does not help the country at all because if you don't want to make anyone angry, you're not going to make anyone happy either, and at times inaction is much, much worse than taking a "wrong" action. Though "gently caress the system" IS a valid way to look at politics now IMO since politics have grown more and more distant from the needs of the people over time and they're so "strong" compared to regular citizens that they barely fear getting (not-)voted into oblivion. Blow it all up and start anew is what M5S was supposed to do, and I maintain that another party that does just that would get just as much success as they did (only to of course, go back on everything once they taste a bit of power... that's human nature I guess) We can't keep trying to make everyone happy, it's just not possible. I wish for a return to a more direct democracy, as is now we literally can't choose anything about our government / politicians, they all get picked by the parties and we've had what, 2, 3, 4 "technical" governments in the past years? Thus the enormous disconnect from real life. I really don't know who to vote because literally no one represents my issues with the country, and if they do, it's oh so clear that they're doing it out of political interest and will conveniently forget all about it once seated in parliament or wherever. No one ever feels compelled to respect their political program/agenda, so much that most don't even mention those anymore except in super generic terms that really don't mean anything (I know it's always kinda been like this, but at least they used to make promises and could be called out on it if they didn't respect them) If they want to just "do what needs to be done because Europe asks for it / because economic crisis / because whatever-issue-we-focus-on-at-the-moment is more important than other-issue-that-people-want-solved", we're never going to be able to have proper representation again. Just acclaim Draghi as King and be done with it already, at least when things go tits up we know who to guillotine! Right now we can't even blame anyone because "BUT IT WAS THE OTHER EVIL PARTIES THAT MADE ME DO IT, I SWEAR I WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY IF WE DIDN'T HAVE TO KEEP NATIONAL UNITY" from literally all sides It really, really sucks. e: also the referendum on cannabis was signed by more than 600,000 people in less than a month. Even if it was pushed by the extreme left and even if you (generic you, not specifically you  ) don't personally think it's right to do it or whatever, it's quite clear that a big chunk of the population wanted to express themselves on it and if it were allowed, the affluence would have been huge (regardless if yes or no won, that's not the point at all) - while the referendum on justice, extremely technical and to be honest quite hard to make up one's mind about, passed and got totally ignored by the people. There's the disconnect I talk about!
TorakFade fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 07:55
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:We can't keep trying to make everyone happy, it's just not possible. I wish for a return to a more direct democracy, as is now we literally can't choose anything about our government / politicians, they all get picked by the parties and we've had what, 2, 3, 4 "technical" governments in the past years? Thus the enormous disconnect from real life. I really don't know who to vote because literally no one represents my issues with the country, and if they do, it's oh so clear that they're doing it out of political interest and will conveniently forget all about it once seated in parliament or wherever. No one ever feels compelled to respect their political program/agenda, so much that most don't even mention those anymore except in super generic terms that really don't mean anything (I know it's always kinda been like this, but at least they used to make promises and could be called out on it if they didn't respect them) I feel like the only viable way to get direct representation is to remove the series of "screening" laws to avoid tiny parties and also removing all the pensions/subsidies for senate/parliament so, even your tiny party can be voted, but you do it only on a duty/honor-bound logic, no monetary advantage. Have all their finances made public, with live feeds of all their inbound/outbound transactions and drop down on them like an hammer if they grab a single cent outside of the monitored channels. Only once the political roles are seen as a disadvantage/burden you will see real politicians at the helm rather than vultures. Another thing that pains me to say but demand a thematically solid degree for ministers, you cannot dictate policy if you don't know jack poo poo on the topic you are supposedly the manager on. I know that it will cut representation but if the alternative is people like DiMaio dictating policy on Foreign Affairs and Welfare, i think i can accept that. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 08:15
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I feel like the only viable way to get direct representation is to remove the series of "screening" laws to avoid tiny parties and also removing all the pensions/subsidies for senate/parliament so, even your tiny party can be voted, you do it only on a duty/honor-bound logic, no monetary advantage. Have all their finances made public, with live feeds of all their inbound/outbound transactions and drop down on them like an hammer if they grab a single cent outside of the monitored channels. Only once the political roles are seen as a disadvantage/burden you will see real politicians at the helm rather than vultures. Another thing that pains me to say but demand a solid thematically degree for ministers, you cannot dictate policy if you don't know jack poo poo on the topic you are supposedly the manager on. I know that it will cut representation but if the alternative is people like DiMaio dictaing policy on Foreign Affairs and Welfare, i think i can accept that. 100% agree on all this. We are at a stage in society where, for better or worse, "experts" rule the day and we're supposed to listen to them. Well at least they should really be expert then! What's the point of a Health minister with a Political Sciences degree? How can he make informed choices about health policies? If it's by relying on expert opinions and advice, why would the Political Science guy be better at it than any other person with a random degree (or even without one!) relying on the same expert advice? And won't a person with an actual health-related education and experience be even better then, in any case? Always been a proponent of not paying politicians except maybe a token amount. A "minimum salary" if you will, that most of them oppose so strongly so that we have people that do it for the honor, for the hope of changing things for the better, to serve the people and not just to get a seat in parliament and a few government jobs for your family or government contracts for your entrepreneur friends. Alas, I really doubt this will ever happen 
TorakFade fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 08:23
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:100% agree on all this. We are at a stage in society where, for better or worse, "experts" rule the day and we're supposed to listen to them. Well at least they should really be expert then! What's the point of a Health minister with a Political Sciences degree? How can he make informed choices about health policies? If it's by relying on expert opinions and advice, why would the Political Science guy be better at it than any other person with a random degree (or even without one!) relying on the same expert advice? And won't a person with an actual health-related education and experience be even better then, in any case? A joke that i do with my M5S voting friends is that, since they love their farcical Credito di Cittadinanza so much, why are their senators and politicians not paid that amount? It's all pie in the sky talk surely since the parliamentarians are the only ones that can cut their paychecks short of a general popular insurrection. If it were up to me i would pay them NASPO/disoccupazione amounts with INPS fees on top but no credit for pensions over that period. Enjoy living like a FIAT line worker rather than an oligarch you fucks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 08:46
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:A joke that i do with my M5S voting friends is that, since they love their farcical Credito di Cittadinanza so much, why are their senators and politicians not paid that amount? It's all pie in the sky talk surely since the parliamentarians are the only ones that can cut their paychecks short of a general popular insurrection. If it were up to me i would pay them NASPO/disoccupazione amounts with INPS fees on top but no credit for pensions over that period. Enjoy living like a FIAT line worker rather than an oligarch you fucks.  Reddito di cittadinanza is dumb, I mean the concept behind it is alright, but as everything here there's way too much wiggle room and not nearly enough checking. I'm a weirdo in that I'm very left-leaning on social and civil matters, but very right-leaning on economics and some other general things (not many in truth, but still). Both sides have good ideas and bad ideas, I'd just like to take the best from both. Instead we either get nothing, or the worst from both 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 09:22
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:
Dawg, I have some bad news, "I'm socially liberal but economically conservative" isn't some special rare position, it makes you a libertarian. Have you ever noticed yourself having very strong opinions about the age of consent? Also the right don't have any good ideas on economics to steal, poor people being left to not afford healthcare or housing so the rich can get richer is garbage, sorry. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 10:36
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Have you ever noticed yourself having very strong opinions about the age of consent? Wow, just wow. Thanks for reminding me why I ignored this thread for a long, long while. Back to doing it now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 10:40
|
|
|
My 3 AM posting sucks, I'll try to proofread my post later :v WRT Reddito di Cittadinanza: let's give a little bit of perspective to our foreign readers on this, too. Reddito di Cittadinanza: another brainchild of M5S. Someone here called it a variant of Hartz Quattro. What it actually turned out to be, is a check (upwards to 720E/month) given to families who are poor enough but not too poor; the name advertises it as universal basic income but it's not basic and it's not universal, as you have to be unemployed but within specific parameters of subsistence to access it. Despite its name, it was supposed to be a bridge between unemployment periods, therefore there are minimum prerequisites to access it - prerequisites that make you formally able to be looking for a job. The amount is on a per-family basis, not individual; here in Italy, we use the official stated address of residence to establish if an individual is part of a specific family unit. According to our National Statistics Institute, there's about one million less poor people thanks to this measure. Just like the 110% law I mentioned before, since we're not really that good at verifying fraudsters, there's a huge amount of illegally accessed monthly checks. One million less poors, sure, and who knows how many people getting checks that shouldn't receive. Is this the only issue with this policy? Ha, you wish. It is currently under attack because Italy, like every other western country, has issues finding labor. "Wait - Italy is famous for its high unemployment rate - how the hell are employers unable to find labor?" Bunch of reasons and Reddito di Cittadinanza is one of them: what if you're the EU country with the second lowest amount of graduates in your adult population, you have a history of being chronically unable to have any kind of high value industries, you have a history of anti-corporative entrepreneurship, and you have a history of social fragmentation? Do you really think you can offer living wages which can motivate someone to subject themselves to the horrible job culture we have? Nah. It's way easier to spend accumulated family money and, eventually, access welfare measures, as those 720E/month for a fully unemployed family with children manages to actually compete with our wages (mind you, it's way less if you aren't a full family, or don't have children), and flipping off employers stuck with a brick and mortar culture where overtime is mandatory and rights are for weaklings. It's been at least one year we read, regularly, about a desperate employer who offers generous wages and modern working conditions, and can't find anyone because of this monthly check. Then you actually go and see what job was proposed and it's a 1200E/month job for officially-40-but-actually-60 weekly hours, weekends included, no rest day. How do you fix this situation? You could push for renovating the entrepreneur culture of this country, you could try encouraging corporativism (...ew, that sounded gross), or you could try the path of least resistance, getting rid of Reddito di Cittadinanza. Our industrial and commercial lobbies are pushing for its rediscussion, at least, and this was another weak point of the now dead Draghi government. Char fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
Char posted:Reddito di cittadinanza stuff I might sound like i enjoy nitpicking your posts but there is a bit of contention about the reddito that is always forgotten to talk at large. Until the Biagi job law reform, a sizable part of every new work position required to go thru the national board of employment, which meant everyone had the same chances of finding a job as long as they went checking daily. Afterwards, the job market was allowed to go thru private entitites that would have handled the hunt for workers, meaning that, if you didn't provide all your data to those intermediaries, you could have been ignored by a potential new job. So the employment board got turned into a skeletonized entity which only handled the notification of being unemployed for INPS purposes while all the private sector moved 100% to third parties for personnel head hunting. Once the reddito di cittadinanza got introduced, most people thought it would pass thru an improved/evolved iteration of the national board but no, they had to make another department made of thousands of staffers and externalized workers to handle the mandatory job hunt or other support while the older board stayed there entirely redundant even if it handled those tasks well before those M5S politicians were even born. I'm not just angry about the reddito being provided to everyone without any validation, duplicating the previously working NASPx, but also about duplicating a whole government department without thinking.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 11:38
|
|
|
It's not nitpicking, I'm not expanding too much because I want to offer some context on the general issues, but yeah, the rabbit hole is always deeper 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 11:45
|
|
|
Current fire update, our highway has switched into Hotel California mode (you can enter but you will never leave) https://www.triesteprima.it/cronaca/autostrada-A4-riaperta.html It's fun that all my nomaskers colleagues are now donning ffp2 regardless of how much they fought against using any type at work. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jul 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 12:22
|
|
|
I'm glad this Draghi government has finally come to an end: the only thing he succeded was to be the U.S.A. lapdog and keep makin' blowjobs to the little man "came-out-from-nowhere" Zelensky, and doin this Draghi (without asking anything to his citizens) decided to destroy the good relations we always shared with russians. We were always the Paese del Sole for them, they always loved our culture, music, food and envy us for all of that. Now they will be bitter against us for decades and they are absoloutely right to hate us now. Such a tragedy. Elections can't come soon enough!!! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 12:24
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:I'm glad this Draghi government has finally come to an end: the only thing he succeded was to be the U.S.A. lapdog and keep makin' blowjobs to the little man "came-out-from-nowhere" Zelensky, and doin this Draghi (without asking anything to his citizens) decided to destroy the good relations we always shared with russians. If that's a bit you forgot a /s , otherwise 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 12:27
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:If that's a bit you forgot a /s , otherwise Sadly we truly have a non zero amount of horrible ghouls like him that are unironically sad and angry about having lost that sweet russian oligarch's blood stained money (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
here's a nuts-and-bolts question: will italy ratify sweden and finland into nato before the elections?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:here's a nuts-and-bolts question: will italy ratify sweden and finland into nato before the elections? Uhh good question. let me check into that, there wouldn't be any political issue though. It's more a matter if it's the right kind of procedure, as we're now in maintenance mode - the Government and the Parliament are still in charge to do ordinary work, until we get a new Parliament. Politically speaking there's no reason to doubt we'd be in agreement with the ratification.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 19:46
|
|
|
yeah i was wondering if it was...uncouth for an outgoing government to vote on something that potentially big
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:yeah i was wondering if it was...uncouth for an outgoing government to vote on something that potentially big Nah, a crumbling government is the best time to pass weird poo poo. Don't expect honor among thieves. I don't remember anything big in recent times to justify telling NO beyond some austerity hawks in Sweden telling us to go get hosed during the early covid times and recovery fund design phase. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jul 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2022 20:36
|
|
|
No issues with accepting Finland and Sweden. The government is gonna close shop soon but it's still at work. I just wanted to say: Me, a total idiot, 12 hours ago: "I think we should not assume our right wing parties will really go together." Me, a total idiot, right now:
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
Char posted:No issues with accepting Finland and Sweden. The government is gonna close shop soon but it's still at work. They have an easy slam dunk election since their alternatives are seen as untrustworthy/inept, they are more than able to ignore issues as long as they can get in charge. Keeping it together afterwards is going to be the hard part. Also expect the coffers to get emptied with tax reforms with another round of austerity measures to compensate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2022 10:24
|
|
|
Char fammi una grazia, visto che ami fare effortpost, ho provato a dare un occhio alle coalizioni ma mi pareva di farmi spiegare le strategie di oronzo cana'. L'unica cosa che ho capito è che Salvini è pro nucleare e flat tax mentre Letta ha appena ricevuto una lettera di intenti dagli alleati che pare una lettera per babbo natale(inclusiva di niente nucleare). Messo così sono tentato di fregarmene e saltare il voto visto che non ho modo di capire per cosa voterei....
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 19:34
|
|
|
Non so cosa dirti, è tutto surreale. Il CDX undivided è estremamente divided nelle idee e Giorgia Meloni è per un'Italia presidenziale (e molto poco federale) vicina ad EU/Nato, il PD è un contenitore per chi non voglia votare destra, più commitment di così non se ne evince, perché qualsiasi misura concreta su cui essere accountable è stata accuratamente evitata. Il programma del CDX dovrebbe essere su una bozza che la stampa ha già ricevuto ma verrà resa pubblica attorno al 15/08. Penso che il PD abbia ancora da scegliere quale orientamento seguire, se Calenda ha sbroccato per l'ultima volta potrebbero pure committare verso qualche misura specifica.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 00:33
|
|
|
Char posted:Non so cosa dirti, è tutto surreale. Grazie, mi fa piacere avere conferma di non essere rincoglionito ma piuttosto di avere una qualità della classe politica pari forse a qualche repubblica del centro Africa. Raccapricciante. Edit: Si è finalmente esposto https://twitter.com/enricoletta/status/1557766106584010752?s=21&t=cSasiArDv07XNraLIpXrBw Proponendo cose talmente vuote da far ridere, sono le stesse cose promesse e mai mantenute dagli anni novanta, sommate alle solite vaccate su stem per ragazzine(che sradicano inutilmente i curricula e producono automi senza capacità cognitive o introspettive). SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Aug 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2022 07:02
|
|
|
We are truly and unequivocally hosed https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/fisco-lavoro-casa-e-riforme-ecco-che-cosa-c-e-programmi-partiti-AEXrQPtB Also covid must have hosed my brain cause, beside the increased cash money limits and regional autonomies, i'm not feeling anything wrong with the cdx program(but maybe having a muezzin blasting every afternoon near my house might be pulling my leg on immigration acceptance). SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Aug 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 13:38
|
|
|
It's trash. Both of these. I'll leave the PD program because it's a mishmash of stuff I'd appreciate and stuff I don't think is really relevant; while they're trying to bring into Parliament Ilaria Cucchi, they're also going with infamous characters like Cottarelli or Casini; they attempted making a coalition with both leftier-than-PD and righter-than-PD groups; they've excluded from their electoral lists other politicians I liked; finally, there's a perfect nobody in my local representation. But the rightwing coalition program? It says "new RRNP conditions", but I read "we want to use the RRNP to finance our fiscal plan"; there's the talk about various fiscal amnesties, and you have to remember that while the program can be drawn up by everybody, it's the Government and the Parliament who will act. The worst, anyway, is that it seems noone is willing to follow any scientific ecologistic position. There is no single party who seems to be willing to spend any political resource towards achieving anything specific. I'm totally disappointed. Char fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Aug 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 01:54
|
|
|
Char posted:The worst, anyway, is that it seems noone is willing to follow any scientific ecologistic position. There is no single party who seems to be willing to spend any political resource towards achieving anything specific. I think that it's because anything solid to fight air pollution would require nuclear or to gently caress road transport, construction, resource extraction or agriculture(or possibly all of them). All of those are bad optics. I've joked about this with a local PD rep and even he claimed it's bullshit to not expose themselves even a little of energy/environment beyond the usual greenpeace wishwash noise.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 06:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 17:25 |
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I think that it's because anything solid to fight air pollution would require nuclear or to gently caress road transport, construction, resource extraction or agriculture(or possibly all of them). All of those are bad optics. I understand it's a hard sell. I'd be happy with an expendable representative stating "we'd like to greenlight nuclear options but we have two referendums that clearly show Italians don't want nuclear energy, so we have to look into other avenues".
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 08:09
|
|