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The #1 thing I never understood about XML is why the XML tooling languages tend to have XML syntax. XML has some advantages, but surely as gently caress not that it is nice to write by hand.
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Dec 29, 2015 11:28
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i feel like stacktraces with lots of nested exceptions should have "it menaces with spikes of onyx" somewhere
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Dec 29, 2015 12:59
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Athas posted:The #1 thing I never understood about XML is why the XML tooling languages tend to have XML syntax. XML has some advantages, but surely as gently caress not that it is nice to write by hand. the w3c was entirely insane at that point, there is no use looking for any sense about any of it the w3c really did far more damage to the web (and the industry) than internet explorer really could, it was like a 10 year detour into semantic web and rigid declarative junk which far too many people listened to
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Dec 29, 2015 13:14
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that's why I like relaxng compact schemata
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Dec 29, 2015 15:56
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My first task at my first "real" job was making XSL-FO documents with some XSLT so that contracts could be automatically generated with the numbers filled in. It was a terrible broken system, maybe just from the implementation being bad.
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Dec 29, 2015 16:19
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Hey... I wrote some vb6 and xslt today. Xslt might be the worst God damned poo poo I've ever worked with. i used to do the same. apparently 6 years later ceo noticed his face is set as the icon for when it's listed in alt-tab
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Dec 29, 2015 17:26
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We're building a content management system and we talked to a bunch of consultants and found some good ones and they told us to use XML and XSLT. They gave us a giant mass of XSLT which I have not put into production yet. XSLT and XPath are exceedingly painful for relatively simple tasks, like finding an element with a class name. I do like the idea that it's more pure functional, but god is it annoying to write.
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Dec 29, 2015 19:46
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two documents were crossing the street one was xslted
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Dec 29, 2015 19:49
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tef posted:i used to do the same. apparently 6 years later ceo noticed his face is set as the icon for when it's listed in alt-tab amazing. we have so many god damned modal dialogs and whatever that I'm sure you could switch the icon on one and it'd take 4 releases to be noticed. Suspicious Dish posted:We're building a content management system and we talked to a bunch of consultants and found some good ones and they told us to use XML and XSLT. They gave us a giant mass of XSLT which I have not put into production yet. Any XSLT I've seen that does anything remotely useful is a morass of foreach loops because nobody ever structures their XML elements in a way where apply-templates works cleanly without either missing elements or double-transforming them. I think I would like XSLT/XPath quite a bit if there was anything at all to enforce non-stupid structures on the XML people design, but it's worthless in the real world.
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Dec 29, 2015 21:11
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To be honest, I think it's the best written XSLT I've ever seen, even if I don't understand it. It's not secret sauce at all, so, here's the thing they gave us. Since XSLT 1.0 doesn't support import / include statements as far as we're aware, they copy/pasted the imports inline and commented those out. https://gist.github.com/magcius/51ea3f511f5dfbe65e77
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Dec 29, 2015 21:15
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xml / xslt / xml-anything would be a lot nicer if the freely available tooling were better. i don't understand how its been around forever and yet the tools still suck. or maybe i'm too stupid to find them???
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Dec 29, 2015 21:19
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Suspicious Dish posted:I do like the idea that it's more pure functional, but god is it annoying to write. For my needs the best thing to do was to write the algorithm purely functionally in a functional language (I used Emacs Lisp, some Lisp/Scheme seems like a good idea since you can simulate XML elements with s-exprs) and then hand-translate that to XSLT when you're done the debugging.
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Dec 29, 2015 21:22
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Suspicious Dish posted:We're building a content management system
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Dec 29, 2015 21:39
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I'm a happy person, but not if S3 keeps giving me EPIPE errors like 1/5th of the time I try to upload anything, without knowing why!
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Dec 29, 2015 21:50
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i once edited xslt trying to get wayland's rather interesting documentation generation system to not swallow whitespace in code examples or some poo poo like that. it was not a good time. i don't remember any details but the fact that there's xslt involved and it's not for converting to html really tells you all you need to know about it
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Dec 29, 2015 21:55
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Suspicious Dish posted:I'm a happy person, but not if S3 keeps giving me EPIPE errors like 1/5th of the time I try to upload anything, without knowing why! good to know it's not just me (or at least a thing exclusive to the São Paulo region), I'm pretty sure it's even the same proportion
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Dec 29, 2015 22:04
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Gazpacho posted:what a strange recommendation, when i've found JSS to work just as well without adding a dependency jss works fine but json.net is faster and more fully featured and is included in every aspnet framework.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:05
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I think the issue actually happens because something in the pipeline is defaulting to us-west-1 which is the default region iirc??? But lord knows what and debugging AWS is next to impossible.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:06
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Athas posted:The #1 thing I never understood about XML is why the XML tooling languages tend to have XML syntax. XML has some advantages, but surely as gently caress not that it is nice to write by hand. its way better than writing json by hand, and xml can have schemas that can assist you in writing the xml and/or tell the tool how to write the xml for you.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:09
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Barnyard Protein posted:xml / xslt / xml-anything would be a lot nicer if the freely available tooling were better. i don't understand how its been around forever and yet the tools still suck. or maybe i'm too stupid to find them??? both vs and eclipse handle xml fine so maybe u aren't using them right?
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Dec 29, 2015 22:10
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Shaggar posted:jss works fine but json.net is faster and more fully featured and is included in every aspnet framework. i end up using https://github.com/kevin-montrose/Jil any time i need speed
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Dec 29, 2015 22:11
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Barnyard Protein posted:i'm sure xsl fo makes sense for someone otherwise it wouldn't exist, right? i came across it while evaluating docbook and i couldn't make any fuckin sense of it. the key thing to understand about xsl-fo is that it's an output format. the goal was to make a thing somewhere between pdf and ebook formats like .epub, so that you could have the layout powers of printed pages while still being able to reflow and fit to monitors and stuff. unfortunately 1.0 actually just kinda combined all the complexity of pdf with all of the layout headaches and inconsistencies of html, and then the css guys successfully killed it before it managed to evolve into something useful.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:18
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Suspicious Dish posted:To be honest, I think it's the best written XSLT I've ever seen, even if I don't understand it. It's not secret sauce at all, so, here's the thing they gave us. Since XSLT 1.0 doesn't support import / include statements as far as we're aware, they copy/pasted the imports inline and commented those out. that's beautiful. actual proper use of apply-template. that's about as good as working with xslt can be.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:53
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:the w3c was entirely insane at that point, there is no use looking for any sense about any of it imagine what the web would be like today if the w3c had never tried to develop new things from scratch and just standarded the useful parts of what browser vendors made. basically the only thing we'd be missing that people actually use would be post-1.0 css, and i bet without the w3c in the way it wouldn't have taken 15 years to add usable layout functionality to css
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Dec 30, 2015 00:11
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reminder about the w3c http://www.w3.org/People/Bos/CSS-variables
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Dec 30, 2015 02:51
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quote:delegation (i.e., define an element's style by reference to another element) css is terrible
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Dec 30, 2015 02:57
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Barnyard Protein posted:i'm sure xsl fo makes sense for someone otherwise it wouldn't exist, right? i came across it while evaluating docbook and i couldn't make any fuckin sense of it. e: if someone wants to contradict me on the modularity thing please be gentle, i'm still traumatized by the experience Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 03:31
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XSLT 2.0 supports more modularity features, but only commercial Java libraries support XSLT 2.0
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Dec 30, 2015 03:59
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i think i just misunderstood its purpose. i came across it while evaluating the docbook schema as a way to write technical documents. i got so far as processing the xml with the docbook xslt and getting html, but i kept seeing stuff about fo's, and didn't know what they were all about. i thought they were analogous to css or something
Jerry Bindle fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 04:00
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Suspicious Dish posted:I think the issue actually happens because something in the pipeline is defaulting to us-west-1 which is the default region iirc??? But lord knows what and debugging AWS is next to impossible. it's probably anything using boto 2 b/c it's got horrible support for aws regions tef fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 04:11
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:amazing. we have so many god damned modal dialogs and whatever that I'm sure you could switch the icon on one and it'd take 4 releases to be noticed. i liked xpath b/c i was dealing with extracting things from real bad html + we had a xpath engine that supported regular expression matchers like the axis, path, selector stuff that just isn't in css selectors.
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Dec 30, 2015 04:13
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tef posted:it's probably anything using boto 2 b/c it's got horrible support for aws regions We're using boto3
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Dec 30, 2015 06:15
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:the w3c was entirely insane at that point, there is no use looking for any sense about any of it like how much of a shut-in did someone have to be in 1996 to think that the future of the web was publishing STEM papers Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 06:43
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who remembers the arena browser, w3c's reference implementation of HTML3 where they put a synaesthete in charge of the project and he made the default stylesheet all weird because he thought it tasted good or something
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Dec 30, 2015 07:00
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variables are too hard for web developers. just copy and paste -w3cquote:It is too difficult to look in two places at once, the place where a value is used and the place where it is defined brap fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 07:17
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so it is too difficult to look in two places at once, but if you want vertical centering you just need to nest three div's together with a bunch of bogus styles which is completely intuitive i guess, idk
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Dec 30, 2015 10:06
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comedyblissoption posted:reminder about the w3c nice background for 1992
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Dec 30, 2015 10:08
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Sagacity posted:so it is too difficult to look in two places at once, but if you want vertical centering you just need to nest three div's together with a bunch of bogus styles which is completely intuitive i guess, idk the semantic web~
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Dec 30, 2015 10:30
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i'm glad css hipsters are now using tables again, so the rest of us don't have to feel bad about it
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Dec 30, 2015 10:35
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comedyblissoption posted:reminder about the w3c quote:A bit of statistics on the W3C site reveals the following distribution of sizes of style sheets: "Professional web designers are an outlier and their needs are not significant. We, the W3C itself, have more significant use cases"
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Dec 30, 2015 11:49
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