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Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord
Dont call Cloth useless! She's tough and a good friend!

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Rama of Ra
Sep 7, 2005
~Where's Sitka? Right about the middle of your thumb.~

Am I the only person who looked at those art prints and immediately thought that it was low-key confirmation that there is going to be a Quirrel episode?

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
Cloth died bravely in battle against a true monster and she is a real hero.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Cloth was always looking for a chance to die. To worry too much about how strong she was one way or the other is, sadly, beside the point.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
I never found Cloth past the first encounter. Hope she's doing okay, wherever she is.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
She's not.

il serpente cosmico
May 15, 2003

Best five bucks I've ever spend.
I never buy collector's editions of games, but I might have to buy this one

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe
Ding ding, the fluke charm worked wonders on Traitor Lord. Seems like it would do the same for anything else his size.

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008

Dinosaur Gum
Couldn't remember where else I was planning to go, so ended up going down into the grey/brown area I mentioned finding at the bottom of a huge spiky pit before.

Broken Vessel was a fun fight, the weird little glowy orange things that kept spawning gave me a lot of trouble at first but after about 5 attempts I finished the fight at full HP/Soul :v:. I think I can potentially go for some of the three marked bosses now, so that's likely the plan for later.

There's a lot of intriguing stuff I've found so far though:
The corpse in white armour, glowing with Dream Stuff in the Palace Grounds, but hitting it with the Dream Nail doesn't do anything.
The Pale King fountain that asked me to throw in my Geo
The 'Pure Vessel has ascended' door that says something like 'All of our regrets are locked behind this door. We do not enter.'
The stag mentioned a Stag Nest if I keep unlocking new stations.


Honestly, there's so much story and atmosphere in the game so far, even though it's doled out so slowly and carefully. Every time I play I just come away like "aaaa nooo I want answersss"

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe
Oh yeah, what's up with that fountain BTW? Seemed like a trap.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Deified Data posted:

Oh yeah, what's up with that fountain BTW? Seemed like a trap.

it's not

after 3k it gives you a mask fragment

OzFactor
Apr 16, 2001

Surprise T Rex posted:

There's a lot of intriguing stuff I've found so far though:
The corpse in white armour, glowing with Dream Stuff in the Palace Grounds, but hitting it with the Dream Nail doesn't do anything.

Don't read this unless you want to know what to do about this--I just want to make a comment.

This is one of my very few criticisms of the game: I really feel like it should say something like "this mind is protected" or something, I dunno. I feel like there's just not much indication of why it doesn't work when you Dream Nail him, especially considering he's one of the very, very few things you can't (and probably the first one of those you will find). Or maybe the Seer needs to be a bit more specific instead of just "No dream can hide itself from you now."

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008

Dinosaur Gum

OzFactor posted:

Don't read this unless you want to know what to do about this--I just want to make a comment.

This is one of my very few criticisms of the game: I really feel like it should say something like "this mind is protected" or something, I dunno. I feel like there's just not much indication of why it doesn't work when you Dream Nail him, especially considering he's one of the very, very few things you can't (and probably the first one of those you will find). Or maybe the Seer needs to be a bit more specific instead of just "No dream can hide itself from you now."

So I ended up reading your spoiler out of sheer curiosity and if you're implying what I think you are: Leveling up the Dream Nail via collecting loads of essence will let me Dream Stab him? I figured it would be something along those lines (as in, needing some kind of upgrade), because it did look like he had a kind of bubble/shield of Dream Stuff around him when I hit him with the nail. It's definitely not the most intuitive thing ever, though.

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe
Correct, just keep collecting.

OzFactor
Apr 16, 2001

Surprise T Rex posted:

So I ended up reading your spoiler out of sheer curiosity and if you're implying what I think you are: Leveling up the Dream Nail via collecting loads of essence will let me Dream Stab him? I figured it would be something along those lines (as in, needing some kind of upgrade), because it did look like he had a kind of bubble/shield of Dream Stuff around him when I hit him with the nail. It's definitely not the most intuitive thing ever, though.

Yep! You'll need a Dream boss or two to get up there. I highly suggest the one you just fought--he's probably the smallest difference between regular and Dream version, so if you practiced enough to beat him easily, the Dream version is just that but a little bit more. Special note on Dream bosses: you fight them in the Dream so if you lose you don't actually die. I'll let you figure out what that implies.

il serpente cosmico
May 15, 2003

Best five bucks I've ever spend.
Well, I pre-ordered the Switch collectors edition and also added on the Wanderer's Journal and Hornet pin. I have never bothered with collectors edition for, and I have no use for another copy of the game, but the artwork looks so cool I couldn't resist. I went with the Switch edition because it includes and the screen cloth.

Plus I don't mind supporting Team Cherry. $15 for the digital version was an absolute steal.

fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!


its sort of a trap in that if you drop all your geo in immediately, you can't access the only save point in the area

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe
This game was amazing but honestly I think my patience ends with it here - I will not learn a boss like the Radiance by having to beat the Hollow Knight over and over again just to have a shot at it.

Like I'm sure my frustration will abate and I'll try again in the morning but that's just not compelling gameplay to me.

I don't suppose there's One Weird Trick that Radiance hates and makes the fight easier than Hollow? If not I feel I probably have a few tries in me before I look up the ending on YouTube.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
other way around, beating HK becomes rote pretty quickly and you can rush him down REALLY fast once you're comfortable with the fight

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Deified Data posted:

This game was amazing but honestly I think my patience ends with it here - I will not learn a boss like the Radiance by having to beat the Hollow Knight over and over again just to have a shot at it.

Like I'm sure my frustration will abate and I'll try again in the morning but that's just not compelling gameplay to me.

I don't suppose there's One Weird Trick that Radiance hates and makes the fight easier than Hollow? If not I feel I probably have a few tries in me before I look up the ending on YouTube.

No. The only way through Radiance is getting good. HK is actually really easy to damage race though.

il serpente cosmico
May 15, 2003

Best five bucks I've ever spend.

Deified Data posted:

This game was amazing but honestly I think my patience ends with it here - I will not learn a boss like the Radiance by having to beat the Hollow Knight over and over again just to have a shot at it.

Like I'm sure my frustration will abate and I'll try again in the morning but that's just not compelling gameplay to me.

I don't suppose there's One Weird Trick that Radiance hates and makes the fight easier than Hollow? If not I feel I probably have a few tries in me before I look up the ending on YouTube.

You'll master HK really quickly, and then Radiance is just a matter of practice. She isn't too hard once you learn all of her attacks, it just takes a bit of practice. You'll get her before you know it.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Deified Data posted:

I don't suppose there's One Weird Trick that Radiance hates and makes the fight easier than Hollow? If not I feel I probably have a few tries in me before I look up the ending on YouTube.

You cannot really cheese the Radiance but it's also a pretty straightforward fight so Quick+Deep Focus can help a bunch. When she gets in the phase where she blocks the edges of the platform she will only do her vertical spikes attack which I found to be a very generous opportunity to heal up back to max if you need it.

And like others said, after a couple tries HK becomes pretty easy, you'll start seeing he leaves massive windows open for putting on damage on him.

Megasabin
Sep 9, 2003

I get half!!
Finally decided to give this game a go after hearing about it for so long. It is probably one of my favorite metroidvanas. Really great atmosphere and gameplay. I had a blast almost my entire way through.

However I'm finishing up the end game content and I have to say I don't find it enjoyable. Having content be difficult is fine, but purposefully making you repeat long swaths of gameplay quickly becomes tedious. I've stopped having fun and at this point its souring the experience enough I doubt I will try any of the godhome stuff if what I've played so far is an indicator of the end-game content quality.

The white palace is terrible. There's no reason to position benches that far apart. It's just punitive to make you replay the parts you know over and over. Just let me get to the piece I'm struggling with. The last coliseum challenge was also not very good, but this is far worse. I have a feeling I'm going to think the same thing about them forcing you to fight HK to get to radiance as well. The game really peaked with Nightmare Grim. All this other stuff is pretty bad compared to that encounter.

Megasabin fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 16, 2019

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010
If the white palace irritates you, you may want to go collect the hiveblood charm.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


SirSamVimes posted:

the white palace is...

good

Darox
Nov 10, 2012


Deep focus and grubsong is infinite health. You can use hiveblood as well, but don't stand around waiting for it.

While platforming in the White Palace it's impossible to lose more than 2 masks at once at any time and that's only when you bump into one of the immortal flying bugs and then hit the spikes, so just keep going at things until you're almost dead or full on soul and then recover it all at once, and let any hiveblood recoveries be a happy reward for not failing for 10 seconds instead of slowing you down.

Tenebrous Tourist
Aug 28, 2008

Deified Data posted:

This game was amazing but honestly I think my patience ends with it here - I will not learn a boss like the Radiance by having to beat the Hollow Knight over and over again just to have a shot at it.

Like I'm sure my frustration will abate and I'll try again in the morning but that's just not compelling gameplay to me.

I don't suppose there's One Weird Trick that Radiance hates and makes the fight easier than Hollow? If not I feel I probably have a few tries in me before I look up the ending on YouTube.

Abyssal Shriek + Shaman Stone absolutely shreds her. You automatically heal to full between Hollow Knight and Radiance, so don't waste any Soul healing in the HK fight that you don't have to. Instead, save it for the Radiance fight so you can immediately Abyssal Shriek 3-4 times as soon as the fight starts but before she makes her first attack. Spell Twister is also extremely useful, since it lets you cast Abyssal Shriek more often.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Megasabin posted:

However I'm finishing up the end game content and I have to say I don't find it enjoyable. Having content be difficult is fine, but purposefully making you repeat long swaths of gameplay quickly becomes tedious. I've stopped having fun and at this point its souring the experience enough I doubt I will try any of the godhome stuff if what I've played so far is an indicator of the end-game content quality.

The white palace is terrible. There's no reason to position benches that far apart. It's just punitive to make you replay the parts you know over and over. Just let me get to the piece I'm struggling with. The last coliseum challenge was also not very good, but this is far worse. I have a feeling I'm going to think the same thing about them forcing you to fight HK to get to radiance as well. The game really peaked with Nightmare Grim. All this other stuff is pretty bad compared to that encounter.

Godhome lets you fight Nightmare King Grimm again, as often as you like.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Megasabin posted:

Finally decided to give this game a go after hearing about it for so long. It is probably one of my favorite metroidvanas. Really great atmosphere and gameplay. I had a blast almost my entire way through.

However I'm finishing up the end game content and I have to say I don't find it enjoyable. Having content be difficult is fine, but purposefully making you repeat long swaths of gameplay quickly becomes tedious. I've stopped having fun and at this point its souring the experience enough I doubt I will try any of the godhome stuff if what I've played so far is an indicator of the end-game content quality.

The white palace is terrible. There's no reason to position benches that far apart. It's just punitive to make you replay the parts you know over and over. Just let me get to the piece I'm struggling with. The last coliseum challenge was also not very good, but this is far worse. I have a feeling I'm going to think the same thing about them forcing you to fight HK to get to radiance as well. The game really peaked with Nightmare Grim. All this other stuff is pretty bad compared to that encounter.

If it peaks anywhere, it peaks with the Pure Vessel fight.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

The pure vessel theme is easily the best in the game

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
I just completed white palace and I am happy to say that it’s awesome (if you have hiveblood, that is).

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008

Dinosaur Gum
Got to Hornet in Kingdom's Edge and she's giving me a hard time. As soon as the spikes get involved my brain just melts.

Really fun fight though, despite repeatedly getting owned.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Surprise T Rex posted:

Got to Hornet in Kingdom's Edge and she's giving me a hard time. As soon as the spikes get involved my brain just melts.

Really fun fight though, despite repeatedly getting owned.

You can completely cheese that fight with Mark of Pride, Quick Slash and Quick Focus by standing in a corner and hitting / healing as required.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

Arrhythmia posted:

If it peaks anywhere, it peaks with the Pure Vessel fight.

I still need to do the fourth Pantheon :( I got halfway on my first try which seems like a good sign.

Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
so the hollow knight was mistake selection by the pale king or did he just corrupt it with feelings by treating it like a son?

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
It appears to either be the latter, or that the whole solution wasn't feasible in the first place because the void isn't completely without some sort of identity.

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010

Snazzy Frocks posted:

so the hollow knight was mistake selection by the pale king or did he just corrupt it with feelings by treating it like a son?

Who can say? The hollow knight ultimately failed, but there's no way to tell if the seal would've held with a different vessel. The king's plan might have been doomed from the start, for all we know.

Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

So It Goes posted:

I think traitor lords buff hurts Cloths story line closure. Her uselessness gets highlighted when the fight is actually actually difficult and I don’t think that is good for her character arc compared to how it went before.

This is absolutely my biggest problem with the new fight. When the boss was easy it was easy to ignore that she misses constantly but it really sticks out after he was buffed; they should've made her able to consistently hit him. And let her knock him across the room when she hits for good measure; that stick is really big.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

One Hundred Monkeys posted:

The king's plan might have been doomed from the start, for all we know.

(massive background spoilers, don't read if you like figuring out LORE for yourself) The Pale King's grand plan to escape his own death by subjugating other gods, and then suppress the wrath of those gods by sacrificing thousands of his own offspring to a voracious all-consuming dark force, in the hopes of creating something strong enough to contain both gods and force indefinitely, was perfectly sound except for one small detail:

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big deal
Sep 10, 2017

Hwurmp posted:

Godhome lets you fight Nightmare King Grimm again, as often as you like.

nice name and av. freaked me out for a minute because I was using that exact avatar at one point

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