Mercrom posted:

The Epstein stuff is just about the rich and powerful being able to do whatever they want to the poor and helpless.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Wait, is epstein the poor and helpless that got murdered in this or like, is he the powerful and rich that got literally murdered for being caught hurting the poor?

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Wait, is epstein the poor and helpless that got murdered in this or like, is he the powerful and rich that got literally murdered for being caught hurting the poor?

Cerebral Bore posted:

He got killed for potentially threatening people more rich and powerful than himself, ya dumdum.

Mercrom posted:

I don't see what's "funny" about it. Russiagate and the Epstein stuff has very little in common. Conservative liberals want one to be true and not the other. Same but inverted for the c-spam communists. They reaffirm two completely different world views. Russiagate involves no power dynamics, and it blames the un-meritocratic success of Trump and his crony capitalist friends on foreign influence. The Epstein stuff is just about the rich and powerful being able to do whatever they want to the poor and helpless.

Owling Howl posted:

Presumably the women and victims that put Epstein in jail pose a much greater threat. There's no particular reason to think Epstein would cooperate with the investigation in the first place.

Owling Howl posted:

Presumably the women and victims that put Epstein in jail pose a much greater threat. There's no particular reason to think Epstein would cooperate with the investigation in the first place.

Helsing posted:

Are you somehow unfamiliar with the multiple sources who have come forward to describe how Epstein used secret cameras to amass an extensive trove of blackmail material on powerful people?

Grevling posted:

Holy gently caress you guys are insufferable.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Wait, is epstein the poor and helpless that got murdered in this or like, is he the powerful and rich that got literally murdered for being caught hurting the poor?

Helsing posted:

(Also, saying that "Russiagate involves no power dynamics" is a bizarre statement that makes me think you must have some very specific or narrow idea of what constitutes a 'power dynamic')

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

have you heard of the multiple sources attesting to a piss tape?

Mercrom posted:

I don't understand what you mean by it either. I mean that the central conflict of Russiagate is between two powerful states. Secondarily it's between powerful politicians. I haven't heard a version of the conspiracy theory where Putin controls the entire US government.

Helsing posted:

the entire scandal happened in the shadow of a war between various forms of media trying to shape the future of their industry.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

have you heard of the multiple sources attesting to a piss tape?

Helsing posted:

Russiagate has been a conflicts between a heterogeneous set of players so of course power dynamics were involved. Questions like whether a sitting President can be indicted were literally central to the investigation, and the entire scandal happened in the shadow of a war between various forms of media trying to shape the future of their industry.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

First time reading OOCC posts huh? Been there.

Helsing posted:

What's really funny is that the same crew of posters who kept insisting that the Russiagate investigation would totally facilitate a larger discussion about elite corruption and entanglement with foreign intelligence agencies are suddenly extremely eager to downplay one of the most explosive scandals in American history, a scandal that actually does threaten to blow the lid off some of the kinds of actions that the Russiagaters were supposedly hyper concerned and vigilant about.

It certainly raises questions about priorities. Even if Epstein was merely allowed to kill himself - either intentionally or out of institutional incompetence - that would be almost incidental to the larger scandal that - big surprise - they have no real interest in.

Helsing posted:

What's really funny is that the same crew of posters who kept insisting that the Russiagate investigation would totally facilitate a larger discussion about elite corruption and entanglement with foreign intelligence agencies are suddenly extremely eager to downplay one of the most explosive scandals in American history, a scandal that actually does threaten to blow the lid off some of the kinds of actions that the Russiagaters were supposedly hyper concerned and vigilant about.

It certainly raises questions about priorities. Even if Epstein was merely allowed to kill himself - either intentionally or out of institutional incompetence - that would be almost incidental to the larger scandal that - big surprise - they have no real interest in.

quote:

Conspiracy Theories About Jeffrey Epstein’s Suicide Harm Kids

Conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein's suicide are everywhere — and they're damaging to kids' perceptions of truth, authority, and democracy.

By Patrick A. Coleman Aug 12 2019, 2:27 PM

his weekend President Donald Trump promoted a video created by conservative comedian Terrence Williams claiming that the Clintons orchestrated Jeffery Epstein’s prison death. The President, who is no stranger to promoting conspiracy theories, pushed the video to his official Twitter feed in spite of Epstein’s death being confirmed as a suicide by his very own Justice Department. Did he mean it? Probably not. But the harm is still done. What Trump and the “Clinton Body Count” crowd fail to grasp is that conspiracy theories are deeply toxic to families and can have long-lasting detrimental effects on children. They spread a distrust of malignant government and authority that can undermine democracy and even lead to violent ideological extremism.

The theory that conspiracies can harm kids is not, itself, a conspiracy. In fact, it’s based on core principle of the science of parenting: Children look to adults to fulfill developmental needs. Adults help kids understand the world and their place in it. Adults also provide security and stability. When adults are loose with the facts or bend them to their will — like when they espouse conspiracy theories — these developmental needs are destabilized. Kids can’t decipher fact from fiction like an adult. Their world is instead upended.

When adults become conspiratorial, they sow distrust on the government in children. Worse yet, conspiracies can cause children to feel as if they are actively threatened by powerful people, upending a sense of stability. When a conspiracy causes a trusted adult to become paranoid, that sense of instability becomes more acute and result in depression and anxiety. In undermining a child’s mental health, conspiracies can set kids up for poor outcomes later in life. In the worst cases, depression, anxiety, and fear of government and powerful people can lead what sociologist Michael Kimmel calls “aggrieved entitlement” — a powerful sense of humiliation that you are entitled to something that has been denied you. Kimmel has found this state of mind in far-right violent extremists and mass shooters.

Trump, of course, is no stranger to conspiracy theories. He’s championed such intrigues as Senator Ted Cruz’s being complicit in the JFK assassination and “Birtherism”, which attacked Obama’s citizenship. And while many of Trump’s supporters are also conspiratorial minded, Jeffery Epstein’s death has revealed a vein of conspiracy on the left as well. There are plenty of liberal-minded individuals floating the idea that President Trump himself had a hand in silencing his old pal Epstein to protect himself from being implicated in child trafficking and child rape scandal.

Framing the President of the United States as a secretive killer covering up his dastardly deeds with children is a deeply toxic idea. A child who hears these conspiracies and internalizes them could develop a deep mistrust of political leaders that could poison their faith in democracy. And when enough people lose faith in democracy, then the country becomes destabilized.

Of course, that’s the whole point of conspiracy theories. And that is exactly why Russia has weaponized them through social media. The more they spread, the less secure we become.

That makes pushing the Epstein conspiracy theories, either from the right or left, deeply dangerous. On an individual level, it can erode the sense of stability in our children and ultimately their mental health. But on a larger level, it could erode the foundations of our country.

Helsing posted:

Helsing posted:

Willie Tomg posted:

I would have a greater chill about it if the dividing lines were not so ruler loving straight. The demographics aren't 100% exact, but they're much closer than they're far apart and the transparency of the bullshit is infuriating.

After a suspicious cell transfer and during a camera malfunction he had no way of knowing it was going on, a guy with information that could bring down 400 of the fortune 500 and considerable Mossad connections (and presumably CIA connections foremost) tied a length of something we don't know what it is to a doorknob that doesn't exist in SHU units and sat down so hard he broke his neck in three places. Also trust the exact three-letter agencies tangential to this event when they say the parts they redacted out of the Mueller report are the really big proof of Russian interference and we need to get really excited about it.

Rex-Goliath posted:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1163112167421468673?s=21

BrandorKP posted:

I will never get the huge boner for the libertarian.

Ytlaya posted:

He hasn't been a libertarian for many years now.

Stuff like this kinda reinforces my perception that 90% of the bizarre hate boner people have for that guy is due to people going off some vague baseless perception that he's a right-winger*.

Ytlaya posted:

He hasn't been a libertarian for many years now.

Stuff like this kinda reinforces my perception that 90% of the bizarre hate boner people have for that guy is due to people going off some vague baseless perception that he's a right-winger*. It's always been obvious that the real source for the negative sentiment is that he pushes back against the US government and security state, and all the other criticism people levy at him (which is generally a mix of valid and dumb things) is just dug up to justify that initial negative reaction. Since any remotely honest look at the guy comes out with him looking better than the vast majority of other media figures who don't receive a fraction of the same negative attention, it's obvious that this isn't just some organic thing.

* the kind of amusing thing about this is that these people seem to be looking at literally the only good thing in libertarian ideology (reflexive distrust and skepticism towards the US security state and foreign policy) and using that association to tar those opinions as somehow being right-wing

Zas posted:

it's a complete non sequitur response to people protesting fash in their communities though. it really comes off like he has no idea what he's talking about

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:

Why would people who think that someone who appears as a fairly regular guest on the show of noted fascist Tucker Carlson might be right winger indeed.

VitalSigns posted:

Well of course it would be too easy to go after a target like Tucker Carlson,