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NTRabbit posted:pick units that match whatever it is the Space Wolves do My point is that there aren't any units that "match whatever the Space Wolves do"; you can certainly use models covered in wolf pelts to represent the same units as everyone else has but is it really so hard to understand why that's unsatisfying for some people? Phoon posted:It honestly just seems like you're angry that it isn't 40k. Sorry if I came across as angry. It's probably more accurate to say that I've gotten my hopes up in the wake of what they did for WHFB -> KoW, so I'll naturally be disappointed. I only brought it up because someone suggested that Warpath offered more opportunities to forge your own fluff and that just didn't ring true to me, so I explained why. edit: In fairness, Sydney Bottocks only claimed that Mantic's setting gave less opportunity for your homebrew fluff to be shat upon, so I suppose one can draw a semantic distinction between that and it actually being friendlier to use outside fluff in the first place. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 22:08
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Yeah the 1:1 match is never going to happen really, but I'd say its as much a result of GW producing too wide a variety of units that serve very similar roles on the battlefield (to sell models presumably) You could still proxy rules whilst running with GW fluff - I think forge fathers probably translate better than enforcers for space marines e: I wonder if we'll see an equipment list like the KoW artifacts list for further customising units
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Sep 25, 2015 22:13
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JerryLee posted:My point is that there aren't any units that "match whatever the Space Wolves do"; you can certainly use models covered in wolf pelts to represent the same units as everyone else has but is it really so hard to understand why that's unsatisfying for some people? Well what do Space Wolves do that is different from normal Marines? i honestly don't know, never seen them in person. The Enforcers have units that come with regular weapons, heavy weapons, AT weapons, flamers, melee weapons, they have Peacekeepers (Terminators) that can be armed likewise, Pathfinders (scouts) with sniper rifles, Jetbikes (regular bikes) armed with all kinds of weapons, 2 different striders (Dreads) one of which has not been described or armed yet, and 3 different flyers. Aside from other vehicles, which they will probably have ally rules to cover with the Corp army list, what is the Enforcer list missing to cover fro a Space Wolves army?
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Sep 25, 2015 22:17
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NTRabbit posted:Well what do Space Wolves do that is different from normal Marines? As a Space Wolves player, myself, I'd have to say not much other than having sillier names for units and lots of fur. Edit: more serious answer: slightly more focus on melee in a game where melee kind of sucks and riding wolves are motorcycles, but better. SpikeMcclane fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 22:21
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What they need is a sprue for each customization option and some theme lists a la Warmachine that open up a unique troop type or changes how many of X or Y you can field. This will allow you to access Hairy Wolfviking Enforcers, Inquisitor Mysterymen Enforcers, Super Most Boring enforcers and Lumberjack enforcers. Anyway lore and fluff runs along a spectrum, 40k has gotten too focused while Warpath is playing it far out as possible. It could use a little more, but not to pissing into the mouth levels which are many steps away. I wish the Plague took after Dead Space zombies more than RE/generic zombies, now that I've stared at them for a bit. The lore actually kinda does? Spiderdrake fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 22:27
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The Plague are weird, they're like reverse Genestealers. They start off super monstrous, I guess to mess up the host society as much as possible so it can't fight back, and then get weaker and smarter so they can better wipe out remaining pockets of resistance and then spread themselves further, I guess?
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Sep 25, 2015 22:48
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For me so far at least, Warpath's lore seems to hit a fine note somewhere between Mass Effect's space opera pulp, Dead Space's space zombie horror story, and Blade Runner's rampant corporatism, maybe with a dash of EVE Online. I think it works pretty well even if its still a little sparse. And Dreadball is kinda like that future-football they played in the Starship Troopers movie.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:56
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boom boom boom posted:The Plague are weird, they're like reverse Genestealers. They start off super monstrous, I guess to mess up the host society as much as possible so it can't fight back, and then get weaker and smarter so they can better wipe out remaining pockets of resistance and then spread themselves further, I guess? I kind of see it as the plague adapting to a species the more it passes around like how viruses mutate in hosts. The big hulking monster is like the default mutation but as it spreads it better adapts to the genetics of a species to make them into a better fighting force then giant dumb monsters and allows it to spread better through inter planet travel
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Sep 26, 2015 00:42
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Dr. VooDoo posted:I kind of see it as the plague adapting to a species the more it passes around like how viruses mutate in hosts. The big hulking monster is like the default mutation but as it spreads it better adapts to the genetics of a species to make them into a better fighting force then giant dumb monsters and allows it to spread better through inter planet travel Oh yeah, that makes sense. They've been unleashing the Plague by opening up boxes of purestrain Plague that the Forerunner left behind. It seems like they're missing a trick by having all the third generation just be human hybrids. It'd be neat if they mixed in some Forge Father and Ork hybrids in there.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:38
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Taear posted:I would rather have a really detailed world that makes a change and ruins everything than have really sparse fiction where everyone just makes up their own stuff. This really isn't a very applicable comparison, though, for the simple fact that people in online games have much more of a tendency to do whatever the hell they want regardless of lore. WoW has tons of lore. SWG had tons of lore. City of Heroes had tons of lore and the openness to craft your character's origins however you wanted. And in all three of those games I saw countless examples of people giving precisely zero shits about the game's backstory and doing whatever they liked, lore and backstory be damned. There are also countless examples (such as the humorous one given by moths) of people flagrantly disregarding established 40k lore in order to make their army much more of a special snowflake. Who's that one guy, Doctor Thunder? The one who routinely puts green stuff tits on his Space Marines? Do you think he remotely feels constrained by the long-established (if dumb and problematic) 40k canon that Space Marines are all initially male (and eventually neuter at the end of their transformation)? I'm not saying you're wrong if you feel happier playing in the 40k universe over the Mantic universe. Enjoy what you like, have fun. I'm just saying that because 40k's setting is more fleshed-out or whatever, that doesn't make it automatically better than Mantic's more "fill in the blanks" setting, nor does it mean that people are automatically going to go "well, this isn't part of 40k canon, better not do it then" when it comes to their armies or how they approach the game. Also I would much rather come up with my own backstory and ideas for Warpath armies. Because then they're my own thing. I loved playing Blood Angels in 3rd edition 40k, but no matter how much I customized and crafted the backstory for my particular dudes, at the end of the day they are still GW's Blood Angels. Not mine. I'm just grafting my own fanfic onto their published stuff at that point. JerryLee posted:The problem is that Mantic goes way too far in the other direction. Unless my homeforged idea relates directly to one of their (relatively few in number and rather specific) factions, it's hard to know where the hell it fits. And this is especially a problem for Mantic because so much of their appeal is "buy our rules to play your GW army with now that GW is pissing in your mouth," and it's like what do you do with Astartes? You can say Enforcers or Forge Fathers, but the problem there is that those are one or two singular lists whereas 40K has eleventy billion different shades of power armor. Using the same list to represent Iron Hands, Grey Knights, Word Bearers, or Space Wolves is something that I suspect will leave a poor taste in the mouth of anyone who's intent on forging a narrative around Their Dudes. The issue you're complaining about here is less "ability or inability to forge your own narrative" and more "people don't have a direct 1:1 port of their 40k army to a WP army". Which is a wee bit unfair given that 40k has been around since the 1980s and undergone a billion changes (including the fact that a couple of the chapters you mentioned have themselves gone from "having their own unique flavor and rules" to "just like any other SM/CSM army, except painted differently" within 40k itself). JerryLee posted:I only brought it up because someone suggested that Warpath offered more opportunities to forge your own fluff and that just didn't ring true to me, so I explained why. As mentioned above, the thing you're pointing out, as I read it anyways, has less to do with "fluff" and more to do with "characterful rules that give a particular army a certain flavor". Which, given that WP is still in its' infancy, is something I think it's a bit unfair to complain about. In pure fluff terms, WP gives you unlimited ways to forge your own narrative. You can come up with your own background for your guys and color schemes and whatnot! Maybe your Forge Fathers are pissed at the Corporations because of a deal gone sour. Maybe the leader of your Rebs is a former Corporation stooge trying to atone for wrongs, "Crusader: No Remorse" style. Maybe your Asterians are trying to prevent others from finding out The Terrible Secret of Space. That's a hugely broad canvas on which to sketch out your own individual army's backstory. Will that ever translate into "here are special rules for taking this particular melee/heavy-weapons/etc.-based army"? Only time will tell on that one. I mean, I totally get why some people would prefer a backstory that is already in place for them. Sometimes you don't want to fool around with all that stuff, and just like the color scheme and story of a previously established force. And that's perfectly OK; I certainly have picked several 40k armies (Blood Angels, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Black Templars, Crimson Fists) based on these things in the past. I'm just saying that because Mantic's stuff is more DIY in terms of fluff, that doesn't make it bad, nor does 40k having years of established backstory mean that people will slavishly follow it when it comes to playing the game.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:29
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They do have other species that get infected, I'm sure the next stretch goal is to add dogs to the sprue. There's also a model of a 2nd generation level Plague Terraton, which IIRC was made because of fan requests in the first Kickstarter. The Plague Dreadball team also has many races represented, although the gimmick is that they've all been cut up and glued together, so you could have a Yjindi body with a human arm, a Judawon arm, and a Zzor head. The Marauders are actually immune to whatever causes the plague, for unexplained reasons. No idea if the immunity extends to the Goblin race, and I'm sure that the Hulk race is vulnerable. boom boom boom posted:The Plague are weird, they're like reverse Genestealers. They start off super monstrous, I guess to mess up the host society as much as possible so it can't fight back, and then get weaker and smarter so they can better wipe out remaining pockets of resistance and then spread themselves further, I guess? Think of it more as radiation exposure over biological reproduction. The first victims receive a huge blast of mutagen. The second generation receives a smaller contact dose from the first gens, and the thirds receive an even smaller amount, to the point that they no longer radiate enough to infect anyone.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:59
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They have so little fluff, and they decided to use the tiny amount they have to specifically prevent themselves from making a zombie ork army?
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Sep 26, 2015 04:18
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boom boom boom posted:They have so little fluff, and they decided to use the tiny amount they have to specifically prevent themselves from making a zombie ork army? Orks being immune to the plague is part of their big selling point for Deadzone, as immune and highly effective mercs they are absolutely the go-to force for regular corporations who need to lift critical or sensitive materials/personnel off of a planet, after the Enforcers have enacted a Deadzone Protocol. They've tried doing it with their regular corporate armies and they just get shredded by either the plague or the enforcers. Some more variety in the Stage 3s would be nice, but so far in addition to the humans there's the Dogs and Stage 2 Teraton already mentioned, plus a plague enforcer, and a plague sphyr character.
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Sep 26, 2015 07:38
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Disciplined Mercenary Orcs are fantastic and I love the Deadzone models. Well, the appearance of them, I don't have any DZ stuff. What is the quality like on the Marauders minis?
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Sep 26, 2015 07:53
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Disciplined Mercenary Orcs are fantastic and I love the Deadzone models. Well, the appearance of them, I don't have any DZ stuff. What is the quality like on the Marauders minis? It's pretty good, the Orks and Hulks are all of that big enough size that the restic material works for them, so they have good detail, but just need the typical restic clean up work. The goblins are small though, and end up a little bit more mushy on details.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:04
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Re: plague it seems to me like the first and second gens are bigger and tougher because that's the most fragile outbreak stage - once you get to a point where there's lots of third gens the outbreak has a foothold and its time to start thinking about next moves which is what 3rd gens are good for
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Sep 26, 2015 10:04
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They're teasing the next two battleforces for the Warpath kickstarter: Corp  Hard plastic Asterians 
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Sep 26, 2015 11:38
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Definitely hope it's Asterians, don't really need more Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare-esque human grunts. That Asterian drone-soldier looks pretty sweet. Of course everyone would prefer Marauders but Mantic ain't going for that right now I guess
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Sep 26, 2015 11:45
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Those Corp dudes are a fair change up from the original not-Cadians Mantic were selling
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Sep 26, 2015 12:17
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They don't really line up with their zombie counterparts, either. I'm hoping they're space special forces or something.
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Sep 26, 2015 12:33
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I'm not crazy about the Asterians. If the idea behind them is that they're almost all remote-piloted drones, that design doesn't communicate it well. That could totally just be some weirdo alien in power armor.
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Sep 26, 2015 13:21
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moths posted:They don't really line up with their zombie counterparts, either. I'm hoping they're space special forces or something. Warpath II had Marines, Marine Veterans and Rangers on the list, could be a more stylised version of Rangers. Might be a nice difference, since there's no actual difference between the current restic ones bar the different heavy weapon arm swap of which each squad is allowed one or two.
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Sep 26, 2015 13:27
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NTRabbit posted:Warpath II had Marines, Marine Veterans and Rangers on the list, could be a more stylised version of Rangers. Might be a nice difference, since there's no actual difference between the current restic ones bar the different heavy weapon arm swap of which each squad is allowed one or two. The Rangers don't look different on the site, but it's bad photography - they have different, fully enclosed helmet heads, dropchute backpack pieces and Enforcer-style heavy rifles rather than the lasgun things regular Corporation have. They're my favourites of the restic Corporation range by far. Edit: Also, Mantic really need to make things clearer in their KS updates. Mantic Games posted:When we hit this stretch goal, we will upgrade the Plague 3rd Gen Trooper sprue to include a Heavy Machinegun and Grenade Launcher. Furthermore, we’ll add an extra figure to the sprue: the Plague Hound, with the options of two different heads. The Plague heavy weapons upgrade adds the Plague Dogs too. muskets fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 13:31
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muskets posted:The Rangers don't look different on the site, but it's bad photography - they have different, fully enclosed helmet heads, dropchute backpack pieces and Enforcer-style heavy rifles rather than the lasgun things regular Corporation have. They're my favourites of the restic Corporation range by far. Corporation will be due a new infantry unit anyway, as Enforcers have been split out into their own list since Warpath II
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Sep 26, 2015 13:39
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NTRabbit posted:Corporation will be due a new infantry unit anyway, as Enforcers have been split out into their own list since Warpath II True. Honestly, I just wish they'd get new pictures of the Rangers up and improve the blurb. I got some in a Crazy Box and immediately went out and bought more, they're that nice. Even the arms are easier to fit together than the regular Marines.
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Sep 26, 2015 13:43
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They showed there'll be a variant of the strider with a corp pilot so we know one new thing they'd be getting.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:34
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boom boom boom posted:Oh yeah, that makes sense. They've been unleashing the Plague by opening up boxes of purestrain Plague that the Forerunner left behind. We'll know a little more as they release new units. The latest DZ kickstarter has a monstrous A1 infected that was incapable of infecting further generations.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:37
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thiswayliesmadness posted:They showed there'll be a variant of the strider with a corp pilot so we know one new thing they'd be getting. That's already in the Deadzone Strider kit - it comes with sealed-cockpit, shattered-cockpit, open-cockpit, Corp pilot, Reb pilot and Plague pilot.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:41
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Blacked out and when I came to I had pledged for Warpath- prettttty excited to have a bunch of enforcers on bikes and in their little flyer zooming around fuckin up space dorfs. I'm really digging on the Enforcer aesthetic and my buddy is pretty much down for any miniature game but it's a bonus if he can be dwarves. Think we'll mostly be playing firefights.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:05
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I might make bad financial decisions if an Asterian battleforce gets unlocked.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:14
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muskets posted:That's already in the Deadzone Strider kit - it comes with sealed-cockpit, shattered-cockpit, open-cockpit, Corp pilot, Reb pilot and Plague pilot. Got 4 of those guys and haven't assembled a single one yet n' had no clue it was already included. The more you know~
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Sep 27, 2015 01:08
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They're gonna make us drag them kicking and screaming through Asterians and Corps before Marauders, huh? At least, I hope that's the plan.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:00
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parabolic posted:They're gonna make us drag them kicking and screaming through Asterians and Corps before Marauders, huh? At least, I hope that's the plan. It's been pretty clear from almost all sources that Marauders aren't happening this time out. I have no idea why, but that's what the gossip says. They can make it up to me with surprise Zzor or Ancients faction.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:14
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Do they hate money? Warpath kickstarter 2 in the near future? Did they really get this far with enough concept art or models to support it? Just sorta seems crazy to me.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:31
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They redesigned the Corporation forces and aren't doing Marauders, their two armies most similar to 40k armies. Maybe they're getting tired of GW leaving flaming bags of poo poo on their doorstep.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:35
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I think it was posted earlier or elsewhere that they have to fully re-design the Marauders since they want to do them in hard plastic, but the previous versions are in restic, so they have already sold some to their audience with the same amount of work to get them in this KS. I could have my facts wrong though, I haven't really followed Warpath.Drone posted:I might make bad financial decisions if an Asterian battleforce gets unlocked.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:47
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We had our kings of war day this morning, and it was pretty cool. We had over 10 people showed up, and several people in the store came over to give it a look. Several of us were first time players, but about half had been playing for at least a few weeks. I was too lazy to take my own photos, so I won't be able to make a battle report for any of my three games. I ended up using the elf list I posted previously in this thread, and I was able to get three games in over a three hour period. I spent a whole lot of time looking at my unit entries, so as time goes on I'll either start playing faster or just paying more attention and thinking more about movement. My first game was against some orcs; they had a named dude on a pig, a regiment of cavalry, a regiment of moreaxes and a horde of the normal dudes, and I think a war drum. He also had three units of vanguarding archers. At this point I probably should have learned to ask if my opponent has anyone who can vanguard before deploying, but this was a mistake I repeated in my other games. I was able to shoot down most of his archers and my dice were really terrific so I was able to gun down his cavalry before they could do too much damage, but in the end I committed some movement mistakes and got tied down in combats where the orcs were able to do some damage. Around the bottom of turn three I'd lost one unit but killed four or five; by the end of turn 6 his remaining three units had nearly wiped me out and we ended with a 20 point difference. Orcs vs Elves, testing nerve at the end of my first turn:  My second game was against twilight kin, and this time there was a hydra, some chariot things, a bat-man and a horde of knife throwing crazy elves. We did the loot scenario, and I made some bonehead mistakes like putting a bait unit out without support being in place, but I did manage to do some damage and kill enough stuff that I didn't feel too bad. I did waste a lot of time shooting regenerating gargoyles with my bolt thrower; for a couple turns in a row I'd shoot and waver it, then it would heal most of the damage off. Finally shot the gargoyles off on turn 4, but then my regiments of melee dudes were pretty much gone and I lost 2-1 on the objectives. It was a good game, and my opponent was able to do well with disrupting my archer horsemen with his annoying flying hero. The last game was against forces of nature, and I got demolished. I think the other player felt sorry for me as it was just completely one sided. His army was a tree man, two regiments of different tree things, some kind of monster with a lightning bolt and the green lady. Most of his units had vanguard, so we were into melee starting on my first turn. I was able to charge and do an okay amount of damage on one of his units, but the green lady healed most of it off. My shooting was very ineffective, and by the end of turn 4 I had a unit of seaguard, an archer troop and my poor wizard shoved into a corner and surrounded by angry trees. I think I'll be finding some points for banechant to have a higher chance of taking out some of these high defense units. If I had been a bit smarter, I probably would have tried to charge my horse archers into the green lady to keep her from healing, but I'm not very good at this game. drgnvale fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 03:20
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Tried dreadball again last night and I don't know what it is but it just doesn't click with me yet. 14 turns felt way too long, we had to check ability and rules interactions again and again and couldn't always find the answer. For example, if I fail an evade but the threat is from a player with Got You (or whatever it's called) and I don't fall because of that skill, do I retain the ball? If I'm evading someone does that person count as a threat? It just seems weird to say you start with a pool of three if the reality is you're always going to evade starting from two dice. Maybe it plays faster when you have the rules down, but it just felt super rules heavy with a lot of adding and subtracting dice. It's nice that the target numbers never change, though sometimes I feel like they should.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:08
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boom boom boom posted:Maybe they're getting tired of GW leaving flaming bags of poo poo on their doorstep. Well they shouldn't have ordered Age of Sigmar then 
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Sep 27, 2015 05:26
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Pierzak posted:Well they shouldn't have ordered Age of Sigmar then 
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Sep 27, 2015 05:46
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