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Or Canadians being so vengeful for a Nazi committing war crimes in Normandy that they war crimes stuff themselves and ended up loving over any chance of putting the perpetrator away by blowing the trial. Blood for blood is a repeating cycle. You can fight for the morally right side and still be a bastard. And being on the right side doesn't excuse you for being a bastard. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 15:22
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Ardeem posted:I keep meaning to watch more than three episodes of Delta, but then I read stuff like this and it just saps my enthusiasm. Are the movies at least worth tracking down? As others have said, the first movie fixes a good deal of Delta. It took my view of the show from 'a good start followed by a boring wet fart' to a solid 'B' for me.
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Apr 5, 2022 18:56
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The actual sin of Delta was not ignoring its power armored idol premise It was doing away with breakdancing Valkyries
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Apr 5, 2022 20:21
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Psycho Landlord posted:The actual sin of Delta was not ignoring its power armored idol premise Hayate getting fired for styling with his loader was one of the best parts of episode one. Like it just immediatly sets up what kind of person he is and how talented he is without having some unrelated character narrating to the audience that this dude is a once in a generation talent who's wasting his life because he doesn't care.
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Apr 5, 2022 20:29
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Psycho Landlord posted:The actual sin of Delta was not ignoring its power armored idol premise Honestly I feel like keeping even just one of those elements would have greatly improved the show.
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Apr 5, 2022 20:29
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Delta has my favorite main couple in the franchise - hayate and freyja have like actual chemistry in a way the other protagonist couples/triangles do not - which kills me with how much I just do not like every other part of the show
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Apr 5, 2022 20:50
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Yeah Delta's def a show that has a few individually good ideas but just did not put the effort into making any of them work together at all, so it just... abandoned most of its own ideas. Ah well, the best Macross was already made, and it was Plus.
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Apr 5, 2022 20:53
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Psycho Landlord posted:The actual sin of Delta was not ignoring its power armored idol premise It was such an absolute stroke of genius that I'm utterly baffled it was dropped. Singing has become more and more literally weaponized over the course of Macross and it feels like a completely logical next step that the robots now dance too.
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Apr 5, 2022 21:07
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I kind of feel the opposite about Plus where every other aspect of the show is amazing except for how the characters all suck but you can get away with that when you're a four episode OVA
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Apr 5, 2022 21:14
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I could go for a new macross series, is there a reason we don't see one that often? They always seem like pretty big deals to have more than two series in the last... 14 years?
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Apr 5, 2022 21:52
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Kanos posted:It was such an absolute stroke of genius that I'm utterly baffled it was dropped. Singing has become more and more literally weaponized over the course of Macross and it feels like a completely logical next step that the robots now dance too. It probably was controversial when they launched, so they had enough time to ditch it, but not enough to replace it with something interesting. Looking up box office numbers, it seems like Delta's movies did much worse than Frontier's, even when they used a Frontier short as a promotion. And that was with the second movie tripling the first one's opener. Hathaway Noa is a bigger box office draw than the Tactical Sound Unit, and it's not even close.
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Apr 5, 2022 22:14
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Good. The more Macross turns singing into magic the worse it gets.
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Apr 5, 2022 22:21
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It's baffling that they went all in on movies for a show that didn't seem to reach an audience anywhere
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Apr 6, 2022 00:07
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Macross just doesn't sound particularly good across the board tbh
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Apr 6, 2022 01:10
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chiasaur11 posted:It probably was controversial when they launched, so they had enough time to ditch it, but not enough to replace it with something interesting. The early airing of episode 1 was the biggest mistake ever if it gave them cold feet about trying something interesting.
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Apr 6, 2022 01:13
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Macross. Plus and frontier are all solid. Seven has its moments but misses a lot. Zero is unwatchable
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Apr 6, 2022 01:16
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Gaius Marius posted:Macross. Plus and frontier are all solid. Seven has its moments but misses a lot. Zero is unwatchable Zero sucks, but it's not interesting enough to be unwatchable. I'd also say that Do You Remember Love is pretty good. Macross II: Lovers Again sucks at least as much as Zero, though.
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Apr 6, 2022 01:19
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haven't watched it in a while but Zero had enough cool mech poo poo to keep me in. Plus "turns on a dime, macross zero style" is still in my daily lexicon
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Apr 6, 2022 01:19
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muike posted:haven't watched it in a while but Zero had enough cool mech poo poo to keep me in. Plus "turns on a dime, macross zero style" is still in my daily lexicon There wasn't enough combat to really justify watching it for combat alone... but I'll grant that Zero's CG held up pretty well for an anime from 2002. Compare it to IGLOO, and Macross gets an easy win.
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Apr 6, 2022 01:24
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Take it as you will as I'm a certified CGI hater but Frontiers is at least better choreographed. That and you actually give a poo poo about the characters. Shin is bland as broccoli and his triangle is a twelve year old and the cauliflower to his broccoli. All the stuff it adds to the protoculture lore is whatever and the conflict just isn't interesting
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Apr 6, 2022 01:27
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yeah but Im remembering how they had laser pupil tracking for the missiles and that was the first time i saw it, so who's to say what's good or bad
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Apr 6, 2022 01:29
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i liked dyrl and the frontier movies 7 was neat too but real wonky pacing and delta.... uhh there were some nice songs??
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Apr 6, 2022 01:30
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I love 7 to death but I'll definitely admit that it's too long for its own good.
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Apr 6, 2022 01:49
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7 is easily in my top-3 Macross entrants but whenever I tell people to watch it, if they've ever seen or even heard about Macross I tell them to skip the first ~8 episodes.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:16
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It was the middle that dragged on for me. Basara doesn't want to do the thing, some other band member tries to talk him into it and fails, Gamlin shows up and makes an rear end of himself, Basara finds a reason to do the thing, gets interrupted by protodevlin, sings his song, a new group of people on City 7 become his fans, flower girl gets ditched. Rinse and repeat.
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Apr 6, 2022 04:09
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It all felt a lot better to me when I realized that Mylene was the main character.
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Apr 6, 2022 05:03
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Kingtheninja posted:I could go for a new macross series, is there a reason we don't see one that often? They always seem like pretty big deals to have more than two series in the last... 14 years? Macross overall only really gets major releases on it's 5/10 year anniversary years, although circumstances have knocked it off landing on those years precisely for a while. It's just not a series churned out endlessly, very likely because it's still in the hands of it's creator. Blockhouse posted:It's baffling that they went all in on movies for a show that didn't seem to reach an audience anywhere The music did gangbusters.
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Apr 6, 2022 05:31
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Seemlar posted:The music did gangbusters. Action figures and model kits do a brisk trade as well. Since the Big West-Harmony Gold rapprochement we've had reissues of some of the original kits, nose-only kits of a couple of Valkyrie models, kits of VF1 the series, those horrible things where they put one of the female characters with a plane, and abrand new Zentraedi Regult battle pod from Hasegawa that is -unusually for them - a no-glue model. It's the cheesecake kits that piss me off. Why ? Some of it is contempt for the blatant fan service but the rest of it a burning hatred for how they did Klan. They put her with a VF-25 kit and not the actual power armor she actually fights in. I don't think we've ever had a kit of the Queadlun-Rau or -Rhea, and at this rate they're going to wear out their VF-25 tooling. Bastards wasted an opportunity.
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Apr 6, 2022 08:09
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mllaneza posted:Action figures and model kits do a brisk trade as well. Since the Big West-Harmony Gold rapprochement we've had reissues of some of the original kits, nose-only kits of a couple of Valkyrie models, kits of VF1 the series, those horrible things where they put one of the female characters with a plane, and abrand new Zentraedi Regult battle pod from Hasegawa that is -unusually for them - a no-glue model. Most of the kits you're talking about are from earlier shows, not Delta, which is the subject at hand. Apparently, the music sells, and the show's blu-rays did pretty well (slightly higher sales than Iron Blooded Orphans season 1), which explains the films getting made, especially with Frontier's films doing respectably. It's just Delta's box office that was well below expectations, which in turn explains why they needed to put a Frontier short to increase hype for movie 2. As for kits, there is an old kit for the Rau. The Rhea only has an action figure in the Bandai Spirits line.
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Apr 6, 2022 11:50
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Macross II had the best weaponized idols iteration On both sides of the conflict
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Apr 6, 2022 14:50
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7 at least had a great finale. Frontier did too now that I think about it, Macross tends to be pretty good at sticking the landing which goes a huge way towards buying goodwill for your series. I don't know if Delta does and don't particularly care, which is delta.txt right there.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:16
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Macross II did not stick the landing and was clearly angling for a sequel. So instead + did stick a landing and became the new timeline. I don't actually remember how well Macross 0 ended, just that the final fight was well animated and the birdman plot was unsatisfying.
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Apr 6, 2022 19:29
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Frontier gets big points for having the first nice triangle where everyone wishes each other the best and gets along. I really liked that Sheryl and Alto wasn't a crazy dramatic thing, it was just that they felt truly comfortable around each other.
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Apr 6, 2022 20:27
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Kanos posted:I love 7 to death but I'll definitely admit that it's too long for its own good. I enjoyed 7 on the whole, and it had some fun characters, entertaining battles with just the right amount of ridiculousness (speaker pod gamma blowing away a hologram along with Gelelnitch's cloak and helm always makes me laugh), nice mech designs and great music but while it's not my favorite Macross entry I do think it has the single strongest episode in the franchise in episode 43. The episode centers on most of the cast preparing to go off on what is being presented as basically a suicide mission, and while Mylene wants to go and help the rest of her friends and father, she's not being allowed to go. She tries to put a brave face on and accept it, but her constantly breaking down as everyone tries to make her accept it, along with everyone else dealing with what they're going up against in minor ways strikes a really nice tone. The actual mission does end up with everyone (or at least, everyone of import) surviving, even if Gepelnitch undercuts the attacks they do, but the build up in the episode around Mylene's birthday is really emotive as everyone kind of makes peace with what they're about to do. The scenes of Basara playing his acoustic on the roof as it cuts to everyone making final preparations (Max asking Millia to take over as temporary captain as she asks him to come back, Ray telling Akiko he'll come back, Gamlin giving Mylene her present etc) really stuck with me. I think the producers agree with the general consensus it's too long though, because Frontier and Delta were both only 2 cours and I imagine they're gonna stick with that in future. That said, the rumor is that Delta was only supposed to be one cour and that it had to be stretched out to two. Which explains some things, but doesn't really explain why the story has such a lame ending in general among other problems either. Seemlar posted:The music did gangbusters. Music sales are basically the gunpla of Macross; where the franchise really makes it's money. Walkure did, and are still doing strong, from my understanding, and are the number 1 album on Japan's Oricon chart for "Daily Album Sales" today. Well, Walkure with Sheryl and Ranka. Who are also still really popular. I imagine that Macross' producers have an expectation that the singers for each new show will continue making bank for a long time after the show ends, because Fire Bomber released several albums, with the last in 2009, and another single in 2012 (with Sheryl and Ranka again; I think) and Fukuyama still tours to this day as Fire Bomber, while Shery and Ranka still shift tickets for concerts and poo poo. Mari Iijima doesn't really have the voice for it anymore, but she still gets some attention and does the occasional spot as Minmay too. The fact that any musical act coming out of Macross has so much to live up to might be part of why the shows are so few and far between too, both because the producers probably want to be careful in picking new acts to ensure they have someone with that kind of longevity and to ensure that each artist has a fairly long period as the premier face of the franchise before a new one comes along. Ardeem posted:Macross II did not stick the landing and was clearly angling for a sequel. So instead + did stick a landing and became the new timeline. I don't actually remember how well Macross 0 ended, just that the final fight was well animated and the birdman plot was unsatisfying. I couldn't honestly tell you anything about Macross II at this point beyond that I know I watched it, and that I thought it was interesting that the main character was a cameraman, since that could lead to new directions in cultural themes for the franchise. I don't love Zero by any stretch, but I think I'm fonder of it than most and that includes quite liking Shin. He starts off as really closed off because he saw so much death and destruction as a kid, refusing to rely on others because of it and in turn putting others at risk because he won't give them any consideration beyond helping if he can. Which gets him shot down and stranded, and his co-pilot apparently killed, which, in conjunction with his relationship with Sara, forces him to reflect on that and ends up making him open up to others. It's quite a simple bit of characterization, but in a 4 episode show it's fine, and I found it more enjoyable than anything Plus did, honestly. I really enjoyed the scene of him doing a goofy dance to distract guards and help Sara at one point too. It's a nice pay off for the characterization by showing him going from being such a brooding loner, that he makes a fool of himself to help someone else. Gripweed posted:Frontier gets big points for having the first nice triangle where everyone wishes each other the best and gets along. I really liked that Sheryl and Alto wasn't a crazy dramatic thing, it was just that they felt truly comfortable around each other. Alto and Sheryl's relationship in Frontier is one of the few anime relationships I ever found engaging, to be honest. I suppose Hayate and Freyja do feel like fairly believable teens in their first romance, but the relationship never had anything of substance to it beyond that they liked each other, because every conflict was just solved by the plot bending over to help them. Hayate getting Var from Freyja's singing being the most egregious, because he basically just decides "me getting Var is hurting Freyja; so I won't", and wills it away. Which is some pretty weak sauce, and really shits all over Messer's death. I mean, what a weak bitch he must have been; he can't even just will Var away. The fact Hayate can defeat the guy who killed Messer the very next episode with no real build up or training because Freyja gives him a free power up is pretty atrocious too. It really makes Messer look like dogshit to try and build Hayate up. Hayate is a really fun character in the first episode or three, and then turns into such utter poo poo after a while that it's really frustrating. He's not even bland, he's actively terrible because of his effect on others. Freyja is much the same, though not as bad; if for no other reason than that she's not the main character. On the other hand, while Alto's family drama never feels like it has a proper pay off I really enjoyed his dynamic with Sheryl. She was attracted to him because he was unaffected by the glamor of "the Galactic Fairy" since he'd already been famous himself, so he just saw another girl and was willing to treat her as one, while she didn't care about his beauty or family, and and was happy to treat him as a regular guy and not a really pretty boy/princess etc. Their interactions felt fairly genuine too, especially early on when Sheryl is basically having to push Alto into going on dates with her because he's so closed off. Plus, they're the one couple who have a genuine relationship during the show itself and not just form one by show's end, with full on dates and even living together for a while. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 23:43
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tsob posted:
One of the many things that frustrated me about II was how it started out acting like it was really going to play with the cultural themes, then it ditched. When the Marduk were immune to the Minmay attack due to having their own singers, and the protagonist is a journalist trying to get around the official government story to get to the truth, you'd think the angle is obvious. The Marduk, unlike the Zents, have their own developed culture, which lets them compete with the NUNs on even ground, forcing the protagonists to punch through the propaganda and expose both sides to the TRUTH, saving the day. There's even talk from the grizzled mentor about human arrogance in thinking their culture is superior, even though having decades of experience with aliens basically going slack jawed at how great your culture is makes that verdict less arrogance and more basic pattern recognition. Then, in episode 2, it's revealed that the Marduk only have war songs. It's not "They've got a culture every bit as developed as ours!", it's "They're immune to magic culture beams". Macross has always had uncertainty over how it wants to play out the idea of culture as a weapon, but 2 basically abandons all the ambiguity while keeping the protagonist's rage at "the brass", because him getting a scoop is more important than preventing human extinction.
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Apr 7, 2022 00:05
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tsob posted:I enjoyed 7 on the whole, and it had some fun characters, entertaining battles with just the right amount of ridiculousness (speaker pod gamma blowing away a hologram along with Gelelnitch's cloak and helm always makes me laugh), nice mech designs and great music but while it's not my favorite Macross entry I do think it has the single strongest episode in the franchise in episode 43. The episode centers on most of the cast preparing to go off on what is being presented as basically a suicide mission, and while Mylene wants to go and help the rest of her friends and father, she's not being allowed to go. She tries to put a brave face on and accept it, but her constantly breaking down as everyone tries to make her accept it, along with everyone else dealing with what they're going up against in minor ways strikes a really nice tone. The actual mission does end up with everyone (or at least, everyone of import) surviving, even if Gepelnitch undercuts the attacks they do, but the build up in the episode around Mylene's birthday is really emotive as everyone kind of makes peace with what they're about to do. The scenes of Basara playing his acoustic on the roof as it cuts to everyone making final preparations (Max asking Millia to take over as temporary captain as she asks him to come back, Ray telling Akiko he'll come back, Gamlin giving Mylene her present etc) really stuck with me. There are some really stand out character bits in 7 that had to do with Mylene, both her individually and the really excellent stuff they do with her and her parents. The dynamic between Max and Milia is really compelling, and my personal favorite episode of the show is the one where Mylene tries to get both of them to come to a concert and then they immediately start arguing but when the attack of the week happens they immediately encourage Mylene to get out there and help save the day. It's a solid portrait of the mixed feelings you get that kind of messy relationship. I also dig the episode where a rival mad scientist decides to recruit his own idol group to fire music beams at the bad guys and they fail utterly because they're being asked to perform while in the middle of a giant firefight and have to be saved by the heroes. When the rival mad scientist is confronted by this failure his response is "the first attempt at something like this rarely works, we'll work on it and try again. This is a life or death battle we're fighting with the Varauta, I'm not going to give up on this at the first setback," which stood out as surprisingly serious and levelheaded. Cutting it down to 2 cours probably would've done a lot for the show. More broadly I basically agree that Macross 7 is best framed as a show were the heroes are actually Mylene and Gamlin. From that perspective Basara is just this dude who sadly everyone kind of has to deal with. quote:Plus, [Alto and Sheryl] are the one couple who have a genuine relationship during the show itself and not just form one by show's end, with full on dates and even living together for a while. This right here is what I find baffling about people who seriously said, back in the day, that they were frustrated that Frontier didn't resolve its love triangle. No, it did, it just happened before the big blowout final battle. Relatedly, that big blowout final battle is still one of the best I've ever seen.
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Apr 7, 2022 01:55
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Macross: Do You Remember Love? is probably one of the best anime movies ever made that recaps/summarizes a series. Everything looks amazing and it has a couple fights that I come back to every now and then as amazing, the opening dogfight and the Max/Miriya duel. The soundtrack is also amazing, which is a prerequisite for a good Macross show. It's an incredibly well put together film. EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMtERuUgqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aHpqCABXD4 RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 02:00
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Yeah shitposting aside The Good Macross is pretty much the OG show and DYRL, Plus, and Frontier, with DYRL and Plus being far ahead of the other two. I dunno that I'd actually recommend anything else to people. But also I'm weird and think the VF-2SS in II actually looks really good so I'll pretend to enjoy that show forever.
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Apr 7, 2022 04:08
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I don't think that's weird the designs in Macross II own, it's the rest of the show that's weak
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Apr 7, 2022 04:09
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I watched Macross 2 when really young so I have a probably irrational level of appreciation of it regardless of it's flaws, but it certainly to this day continues to fill my needs of Big rear end Battles in a way that 7 as much as I liked that does not (Battle 7 is surprisingly uncool in a way that Battle Frontier fortunately makes up for in spades) It being the lower tier of Macross speaks pretty decently for the franchise as a whole honestly, it's a series that bottoms out at "eh" rather than anything especially bad.
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Apr 7, 2022 04:18
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