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skylined! posted:it's pretty amazing that the announcement of an actual meeting with russians hasn't tanked his approval even further, and these polls seem to be post-tuesday-announcement - correct me if im wrong It's because that is the actual floor.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:51
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Pakled posted:There's nothing inherently wrong with a pee fetish, it's just funny to think about the chaos that would ensue if the pee tape was real and leaked. Chaos would be day one, my post is an example of what you would see day two.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:54
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Pakled posted:...if the pee tape was real and leaked. The pee tape "leaking" will be the joke that never dies. They'll be making it on the 200th season of SNL.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:00
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hiddenriverninja posted:well that's a problem when that's exactly what science is A public event debate ≠ peer reviewed science. I think you're missing the point. These are always heavy on spectacle, lean on substance.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:00
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Dick Trauma posted:The idea that the GOP and right wing voters have a line beyond which they will not support Trump is a fantasy. It was a fantasy during the election process, it's a fantasy now. From the beginning of his campaign it's been one horrible event after another, sometimes more than one per day, his polls are lousy, he's at war with the media... and not one Republican has abandoned him. Not one has gone on TV and said "I will not vote for anything he wants because he's morally and ethically bankrupt." No, what you have to do is make Trump attack Republicans first. They will never start the fight or instigate impeachment until its unavoidable. BUT the wonderful thing about Trump is that he is selfish and is willing to blame everyone else for his shortcomings depending on who talks to him, just a few straight days of a bill he wanted not working out or even just the latest talk to him suggesting Ryan wants him gone just so he can be president could bring the purge down and the base helpless to not repeat everything Trump tweets because there is no floor the Republicans won't sink through for him. You have to utilize their self- survival instincts. Nothing else will work. RINO existed long before Potus 45.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:01
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skylined! posted:it's pretty amazing that the announcement of an actual meeting with russians hasn't tanked his approval even further, and these polls seem to be post-tuesday-announcement - correct me if im wrong
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Jul 15, 2017 18:05
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Arguably this bill is far worse because of the Cruz Amendment. I'm not sure why that amendment, which is only supported by a handful of Republicans, is leading to what seems like MORE support for the bill. Even though the steep Medicaid cuts and the significant cuts to pre-existing coverage for all plans, not just exchange plans, are incredibly unpopular. I am definitely starting to worry that they are going to ignore both the public and the insurance industry (which is warning that the Cruz Amendment will likely result in a death spiral of the markets) just to pass SOMETHING and call it a 'win'.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:10
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waffle posted:Same thing as happened during the election, so much poo poo gets slung at Trump (all legitimate poo poo, of course), people just start to tune it out. I love seeing Trump get in deep poo poo as much as anyone and I can't even keep track of it anymore, nor do I really care to. I don't think further announcements are going to affect approval ratings very much until people actually start getting charged for stuff. It's like what happened with GWB. The appearance of scandal and incompetence didn't tank his approval much, but when his administration started loving up in visible, concrete ways (e.g., Katrina) that's when he hit the 20s
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Jul 15, 2017 18:10
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Alan Smithee posted:"Hi I'm captain America congrats on your new citizenship." I think he's technically a war criminal now
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Jul 15, 2017 18:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think he's technically a war criminal now Which one? There's like 20 of them now.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:14
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Koyaanisgoatse posted:It's like what happened with GWB. The appearance of scandal and incompetence didn't tank his approval much, but when his administration started loving up in visible, concrete ways (e.g., Katrina) that's when he hit the 20s
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Jul 15, 2017 18:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:Arguably this bill is far worse because of the Cruz Amendment. I'm not sure why that amendment, which is only supported by a handful of Republicans, is leading to what seems like MORE support for the bill. Even though the steep Medicaid cuts and the significant cuts to pre-existing coverage for all plans, not just exchange plans, are incredibly unpopular. I don't think the details of the amendment really matter. All the GOP wants is a bill that cuts taxes for the rich at the expense of everyone else. The only thing stopping them is optics. So every time the bill changes, some of the moderates start waffling again because there's no visibility on the latest draft of the bill and another couple of billion in bribes thrown in for their prior "no" votes. It probably is going to pass, if not in this form then in some other one. The rich want their tax cuts.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:15
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think he's technically a war criminal now Hasn't prevented anyone else in the recent past.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:16
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think he's technically a war criminal now 
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Jul 15, 2017 18:17
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LeeMajors posted:A public event debate ≠ peer reviewed science. I meant that science as a concept is how we explain things in general
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Jul 15, 2017 18:26
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Koyaanisgoatse posted:It's like what happened with GWB. The appearance of scandal and incompetence didn't tank his approval much, but when his administration started loving up in visible, concrete ways (e.g., Katrina) that's when he hit the 20s I doubt it. Trump is still insanely popular among the GOP. The latest Gallop poll I could find (July 3-9) shows even after everything he has a 85% approval rating among Republicans. Politics is now more about tribalism and voter self-expression than having a commonly accepted body of facts and picking the candidate who espouses the policy you most support.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:28
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LeeMajors posted:A public event debate ≠ peer reviewed science. It's more than beside the point, really. A bunch of people with opinions, no matter how hard they believe themselves, are not a scientists peers. No matter how much substance the bring to the table. [  ]e- Not that every scientist is an uberminded truthsayer. Scientists, as a community of professionals all must agree on what is the truth. That is their entire profession. and the truths discovered in the future will be found using the ones determined in the past. There needs to be a consensus on what said - not unassailable, but accepted - facts are. The reason I'm being so long winded about this is that I see not only human wrecking-balls like Pruitt, but the right wing media as well, treating the truth like it's (not a questionable thing, TRUTH IS.) a puff of opinion that you can push aside if you disagree with it. Or if it offends the ideas you already have. That is the opposite of science. [/ ]Okay sorry. I know many of you know all this stuff, I just had to type it before I exploded. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 18:28
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GamingHyena posted:I doubt it. Trump is still insanely popular among the GOP. The latest Gallop poll I could find (July 3-9) shows even after everything he has a 85% approval rating among Republicans. Politics is now more about tribalism and voter self-expression than having a commonly accepted body of facts and picking the candidate who espouses the policy you most support. You are so right about the tribalism. Painting Trump as 'not a real Republican' would harm him with his base more than any pussy-grabbing, vet-bashing, or colluding with a foreign nation.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:31
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I wonder what caused them to jump almost two fold in favorability of Russia... 
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Jul 15, 2017 18:31
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Crabtree posted:No, what you have to do is make Trump attack Republicans first. How? Even their horrible healthcare shitshow will eventually pass, and then they can move on to whatever other part of government they want to dismantle. Trump is verging on becoming a cult leader. His supporters aren't concerned with political purity.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:31
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Teddybear posted:Almost instantly. They want it to be done. What makes you think it'll be easy to pass in the house again? It's gone through all sorts of changes. I think they just want to kick the can back to the house, who will repeat the process and kick it back to them, and so on and so forth.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:32
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Burt Buckle posted:You are so right about the tribalism. Painting Trump as 'not a real Republican' would harm him with his base more than any pussy-grabbing, vet-bashing, or colluding with a foreign nation. The problem is that 2016 revealed that a lot of Republican voters are more about a white identity than small government. It's hard to be a true Republican when 2016 destroyed the notion of what a Republican actually believe.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:37
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empty whippet box posted:What makes you think it'll be easy to pass in the house again? It's gone through all sorts of changes. I think they just want to kick the can back to the house, who will repeat the process and kick it back to them, and so on and so forth. I mean, they really, really want the perceived win from getting this bill passed so that they can move on to their other horrible priorities and at least get headlines that aren't "GOP still struggling with lovely bill no one wants." edit: I mean hopefully the "no one wants the bill" part will end up damaging them in the midterms depending on how much pain it causes by then.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:37
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GamingHyena posted:I doubt it. Trump is still insanely popular among the GOP. The latest Gallop poll I could find (July 3-9) shows even after everything he has a 85% approval rating among Republicans. Politics is now more about tribalism and voter self-expression than having a commonly accepted body of facts and picking the candidate who espouses the policy you most support. For reference, GWB didn't start consistently dipping below 85% until after Katrina.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:46
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I'm wondering what the CBO score will be with the Cruz amendment. The amendment basically destroys the concept of "pre-existing conditions" being covered and insurance companies not being able to charge more. Basically you'll have a unattainable insurance plan then the lesser insurance plans won't cover anything. Bills a total poo poo show.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:47
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Hollismason posted:I'm wondering what the CBO score will be with the Cruz amendment. The amendment basically destroys the concept of "pre-existing conditions" being covered and insurance companies not being able to charge more. Basically you'll have a unattainable insurance plan then the lesser insurance plans won't cover anything. That's why I still don't think this bill is going to pass. The House got away with it because the GOP has a larger majority there, and they managed to rush it through without a CBO score happening beforehand. Another CBO score is dropping early next week and it's going to be just as bad as the last score if not worse.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:49
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Poor people gonna need some industrial strength bootstraps
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Jul 15, 2017 18:57
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I feel like the score with the Cruz amendment is just going to be something like "no one has insurance" and "entire healthcare industry collapses" with a little "roving bands of cash only doctors performing illegal operations" for good measure.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:00
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Hollismason posted:I'm wondering what the CBO score will be with the Cruz amendment. The amendment basically destroys the concept of "pre-existing conditions" being covered and insurance companies not being able to charge more. Basically you'll have a unattainable insurance plan then the lesser insurance plans won't cover anything. I thought the GOP is intending to have the CBO not score the bill with the Cruz Amendment precisely because they know how lovely it is, instead using the GOP-led HHS to score it instead?
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Jul 15, 2017 19:02
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American Health Insurance Partners and the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association have called the BCRA with the new amendments "unworkable". Like, this isn't better than ACA, it's not even just worse than ACA, it's impossible.
Reik fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 19:02
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Glad I know a bunch of veterinarians so I can get affordable medical treatment for the last couple years I live in the US.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:02
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Shukaro posted:Poor people gonna need some industrial strength bootstraps If Trump Regime gets their way, all the poors' boot straps will be....concentrated somehow. 
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Jul 15, 2017 19:03
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Angry_Ed posted:I thought the GOP is intending to have the CBO not score the bill with the Cruz Amendment precisely because they know how lovely it is, instead using the GOP-led HHS to score it instead? Is that even possible? I thought one of the conditions of passing it on Reconciliation was that the CBO had to score the bill before it was voted on.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:04
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Apparently it's even more horrific http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-bcra-20170714-story.html quote:
So those cheap plans that they're talking about are not even considered insurance. Have a cheap plan or get suckered into one then get sick. To bad you're out of luck and will probably die horribly.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:04
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Pakled posted:Is that even possible? I thought one of the conditions of passing it on Reconciliation was that the CBO had to score the bill before it was voted on. The only article I can find about it is from The Hill, but let's consider for the moment that "Is that even possible" isn't really a question when the GOP is already proven to not really give a poo poo about rules. That said: quote:It’s unclear whether a score from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) would comply with Senate rules. Given that it could be a violation of a rule, it might be worth contacting your Senators (especially if they're Democrats) to insist that the entire bill, Cruz Amendment included, be scored by the CBO otherwise it should be filibustered because it's not valid under Reconciliation. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 19:08
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It turns out the CBO bill will cost billions over 10 years but save trillions over decades.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:08
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I like how they barely even try to present a front of decorum anymore and just outright exempt themselves from their ghoulish healthcare slashing.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:09
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Hollismason posted:Apparently it's even more horrific On the plus side, it should spur a resurgence of interest in Congressional elections as the sick and infirm desperately attempt to be elected to Congress so they can get that cancer treatment started.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:11
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Hollismason posted:Apparently it's even more horrific As I think Charlie Pierce said, this Amendment would legalize insurance fraud. That's all it is. Honestly that's even worse than the bullshit pre-ACA plans that were 'cheap' but covered nothing, because at least then the government wouldn't penalize you for not having coverage. If this passes some people will buy plans that will not only not cover anything, but also not meet the requirements for coverage.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:12
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This along with the cuts to Medicaid will just kill people who get sick. 1. Get a crappy cheap insurance plan from your job because you can't afford the good insurance plan that does cover pre existing conditions. 2. Get diagnosed with a illness 3. Be locked out of purchasing decent insurance 4. Be locked out of Medicaid because your income is to high. States would now have more control over Medicaid so they reduce the income requirement to 0% which is still offered under this bill. 5. Die Like I can't think of anything else other than this is designed to murder people.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:13
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