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KillHour posted:1: All Corvettes have removable roofs - coupe versions don't exist. Yes yes I know it has the targa roof, they still call it a coupe. I knew someone was going to be picky about that. I heard about the stitching, but I probably wouldn't get a 3LT so I wouldn't care because I think most of the stitching issues are with the leather dashboard that only comes with 3LT.
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Apr 11, 2020 23:49
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drgitlin posted:Guess what Elon Musk bought and sent to NYC covered in Tesla logos. I’ve thought Musk was a silver spoon moron basically forever so his misunderstanding that a 700$ resmed home CPAP unit is the same as a 25k$ ventilator doesn’t surprise me. Residency Evil posted:Lol @ this thread talking about ventilators. It’s the trump era baybeeeee. Anything is possible. Expected even. Well, except for well-funded social services. LeeMajors fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 00:58
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I don't think it was a misunderstanding I think it was an intentional bait-and-switch just like every other product he announces
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Apr 12, 2020 01:07
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Personally I'm waiting for my Trumpbucks. And amazed that it actually passed as straight cash and not some bullshit means tested tax credit garbage
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Apr 12, 2020 01:08
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JK Fresco posted:I don't think it was a misunderstanding I think it was an intentional bait-and-switch just like every other product he announces I mean maybe. But he’s enough of a Dunning-Kruger moron to think doctors would like still be grateful for a wholly ineffective machine. “No one has heard of these, but they are cutting edge. We call these: nasal pillows.” 
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Apr 12, 2020 01:12
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Super Soaker Party! posted:Yes yes I know it has the targa roof, they still call it a coupe. I knew someone was going to be picky about that. That the premium high visibility, high contrast, right in your sight line stitching was allowed past inspection just leaves one to wonder what’s going on in the hard to see places. But sure, getting one without that stitching should fix the problem.
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Apr 12, 2020 01:27
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JK Fresco posted:Personally I'm waiting for my Trumpbucks. And amazed that it actually passed as straight cash and not some bullshit means tested tax credit garbage Well, I mean, it IS means tested and there is a garbage result for the poorest americans who didn't file taxes in 2018 or 2019 in that they may not receive the minor relief for months. Additionally people who had good paying jobs before the crisis but have since lost them won't be getting anything until they file their 2020 taxes long after they could probably use the money. That part of the relief bill is kind of garbage, thankfully the expanded unemployment also passed. Oh and uh... this is related to cars cause now people can take those rone-bucks and buy pickup trucks for 0% interest!
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Apr 12, 2020 01:57
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Super Soaker Party! posted:Meanwhile, in actual new car news, or actually-exists-now-car news, the C8 finally seems to be actually getting delivered, or at least the thousand or so that were produced before the factory shut down, and it seems to be mostly living up to the hype? And I didn't even realize the convertible was going to be hard top as I'd stopped reading about it after the initial announcements last year. If the convertible with the top up has the same interior noise as the coupe, it might be the first time in my life I'm interested in a convertible. I'd still be waiting a few years because if nothing else I need to loving save up and right now there's no hope of getting any discounts (plus every Corvette generation has issues the first few years), but all the reviews seem to find no big problems with the car - the biggest downside they point out is that the passenger feels walled off from the driver by that row of HVAC controls riser thing, and....who gives a poo poo. Sucks for the passenger I guess? But yeah I'm excited about a GM product that isn't a ventilator. While the Corvette has been a world-class sports car for nearly a quarter-century now, the big question is if the C8 is finally enough to win conquests from European brands en masse. While I don't think Corvette will be stealing sales from 911s and Lamborghinis, the 2-door AMG/M/RS cars, and especially the Cayman/Boxster have suddenly become a lot harder to justify.
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Apr 12, 2020 01:58
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Tremek posted:Usual suspects missing the point entirely, not shocking, rename this thread forest for the trees and it would be accurate. But yes auto mfrs. building ventilators probably isn’t the right target. The connection here is wartime production for disposable items. Garands weren’t expected to come back from the front. Stop making poo poo up to make your point. Edit: Oh, I'm way behind.
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Apr 12, 2020 02:08
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Godzilla07 posted:While the Corvette has been a world-class sports car for nearly a quarter-century now, the big question is if the C8 is finally enough to win conquests from European brands en masse. While I don't think Corvette will be stealing sales from 911s and Lamborghinis, the 2-door AMG/M/RS cars, and especially the Cayman/Boxster have suddenly become a lot harder to justify. The Cayman and Boxster have always been tough to justify from a pure numbers perspective but they don't have any issues selling them because people aren't buying them purely for the numbers. If we are being generous and not attributing it entirely to brand snobbery then there will still be a serious qualitative difference between how a mid engined Porsche feels and how a mid engined vette feels and some people will prefer the slower car based on the way it drives.
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Apr 12, 2020 02:19
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I’m going to guess that brand snobbery will make sure that a lot of AMG/M/RS cars are still sold.
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Apr 12, 2020 03:20
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Godzilla07 posted:While the Corvette has been a world-class sports car for nearly a quarter-century now, the big question is if the C8 is finally enough to win conquests from European brands en masse. While I don't think Corvette will be stealing sales from 911s and Lamborghinis, the 2-door AMG/M/RS cars, and especially the Cayman/Boxster have suddenly become a lot harder to justify. The Cayman/Boxster have never been high volume sellers, especially in comparison to the Corvette. I have a feeling they'll sell enough. The price of the new Corvette is definitely creeping up, especially optioned up too.
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Apr 12, 2020 03:32
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Murgos posted:That the premium high visibility, high contrast, right in your sight line stitching was allowed past inspection just leaves one to wonder what’s going on in the hard to see places. I mean, it's still a GM product, so I'm not expecting German quality, but on the other hand, as far as I know the Corvette mechanicals through the past two generations haven't had huge issues, it's always been fit and finish. (The early C7 years had auto transmission issues I believe - that was the most serious non finish issue I remember hearing about, and it's definitely not a minor complaint, but also would be why I wouldn't get an early example). Bottom line for me is literally the bottom line, i.e. the value proposition. I don't feel like, nor can I really afford, to spend absurd amounts on a German sports car that will require additional absurd amounts for any repairs. (And I'm not talking about a new Corvette - I'd wait a few years and get a low mileage one for $40-50k). I don't want a garage queen that I have to be nervous about all the time anyway. That said I'm not trying to convince anyone that the C8's better than a Porsche or Lambo, just looks to me like a great car in terms of what you get for the money and it's sort of in my price range, unlike a Porsche or Lambo.
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Apr 12, 2020 20:16
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Oh yeah, it's absolutely a screaming deal. Just don't think GM isn't gonna GM it up with cost cutting and bad QC.
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Apr 12, 2020 20:26
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Not that it makes a difference, but to me it looks like the stitching is straight but the leather looks like it's pulled unevenly.
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Apr 12, 2020 22:33
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How about just not getting the leather interior?
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Apr 12, 2020 22:40
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Charles posted:How about just not getting the GM product? 
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Apr 12, 2020 22:51
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Charles posted:How about just not getting the leather interior? The leather stitching is a symptom, not the problem.
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Apr 13, 2020 00:22
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Murgos posted:The leather stitching is a symptom, not the problem. Well yeah. Kakermix is right. It's still a GM
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Apr 13, 2020 00:25
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Genderfluent posted:I own a TDI and still think they were wrong. Come on No, it's still complete bullshit in my opinion, because the test cycle is known and apparently designing a car around that to game the numbers is okay, but detecting the test cycle and doing something different is not. Here's a question: to test the manual transmission versions, would it have been acceptable to detect the test cycle and simply change the recommended shift points which, bizarrely, the testers are honour-bound to follow? It would make a difference in testing, but not in the real world since I just shift based on what I think is best anyway. What we need is for every model year to be subject to a different, randomized test based on real-world driving, and have the test not known to the manufacturers ahead of time so they have to design a car based on what they think will work best in the real world rather than what they know will be on the emissions test. That way, the numbers will better reflect actual performance, and there will be very little opportunity for cheating. VW went further than most, and yeah it's a bit dishonest, but it's a poo poo system that encouraging engineering-to-the-test and the fact that they came up with a clever but dishonest way to go even further doesn't make the behaviour of the other companies any more acceptable, in my opinion. So, yeah, they were morally wrong to do what they did, but so is every other car company which designs their powertrain to the test, and that's deemed acceptable. That VW is more cleverly underhanded is not a mark against them, in my book.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:38
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PT6A posted:That VW is more cleverly underhanded is not a mark against them, in my book. They were caught.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:42
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I for one am glad that multi-billion dollar corporations are cheating their customers.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:45
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I agree that the testing system is BS and they game around it to get good Monroney stickers but that is just insanely indefensible. I haven't seen any reports that other manufacturers did anything like what VW did.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:53
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PT6A posted:What we need is for every model year to be subject to a different, randomized test based on real-world driving, and have the test not known to the manufacturers ahead of time so they have to design a car based on what they think will work best in the real world rather than what they know will be on the emissions test. That way, the numbers will better reflect actual performance, and there will be very little opportunity for cheating. How on earth do you define 'real world' driving? For some people that might mean entirely stuck in traffic other it might be 90mph on a smooth, flat road. Also if you're using different tests for different cars then you can't use it as a comparison so the numbers are utterly pointless.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:54
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Minnesota Mixup posted:I for one am glad that multi-billion dollar corporations are cheating their customers. Who gives a gently caress about VW's customers? They knew what they were signing up for. VW sold cars that emitted vastly more carcinogens into the air than allowed, and did so by cheating on the government mandated tests that are designed to stop car makers from selling cars that dump carcinogens into the air and actively killing people. Somehow other car makers managed to stay in business without doing that.
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Apr 13, 2020 01:58
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Throatwarbler posted:Who gives a gently caress about VW's customers? They knew what they were signing up for. VW sold cars that emitted vastly more carcinogens into the air than allowed, and did so by cheating on the government mandated tests that are designed to stop car makers from selling cars that dump carcinogens into the air and actively killing people. Somehow other car makers managed to stay in business without doing that. Wait, VW customers were told they were being lied to when it first started? loving customers, they should have known. I'm surprised it took so long for one of them to break their silence on it. And yeah a post I made earlier was about how lovely it was this and damage to the environment.
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Apr 13, 2020 02:06
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Charles posted:I agree that the testing system is BS and they game around it to get good Monroney stickers but that is just insanely indefensible. I haven't seen any reports that other manufacturers did anything like what VW did. FCA recently had to pay out roughly $800 million in fines and settlements for NOx violations on their 3.0L V6 diesels, and German regulators have fined Daimler €870 million for NOx violations. Everyone was cheating because it is hard to get diesels to comply with modern emissions standards (cf. Mazda's diesel taking the better part of a decade to come to market), but VW was cheating the hardest.
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Apr 13, 2020 02:23
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Consider me educated, but I still don't give VW a pass for destroying the environment and people's health. gently caress anyone who does it.
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Apr 13, 2020 02:26
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Godzilla07 posted:(cf. Mazda's diesel taking the better part of a decade to come to market) Also when it did arrive it was down on power and torque and didn't get the same economy as the rest of world versions.
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Apr 13, 2020 02:53
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PT6A posted:No, it's still complete bullshit in my opinion, because the test cycle is known and apparently designing a car around that to game the numbers is okay, but detecting the test cycle and doing something different is not. Here's a question: to test the manual transmission versions, would it have been acceptable to detect the test cycle and simply change the recommended shift points which, bizarrely, the testers are honour-bound to follow? It would make a difference in testing, but not in the real world since I just shift based on what I think is best anyway. passing the test cycle is just part of certification, the other part of certification is that the car is supposed to operate like that ALL THE TIME YOU DRIVE IT. incredibly dumb fuckwad poo poo right here
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Apr 13, 2020 03:43
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The thing about those TDIs is they are all slower than the equivalent gas version in the same generation. All of them. There isn't better low end torque, there isn't smoother high end power or whatever other marketing nonsense you've absorbed. They are all slower and shittier than the exact same gas versions of the cars, even though they gave the TDIs fancier suspensions and wheels and whatever. The number of people who bought into the marketing bullshit and believe they bought a faster (but actually slower diesel) car is just staggering. You can drive the same model year with the TDI and gas back to back in any generation, they were all way slower. You can look up the HP and torque graphs, they all sucked. And that was before the diesel scandal, they probably got worse, right?
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Apr 13, 2020 03:53
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Pryor on Fire posted:The thing about those TDIs is they are all slower than the equivalent gas version in the same generation. All of them. There isn't better low end torque, there isn't smoother high end power or whatever other marketing nonsense you've absorbed. They are all slower and shittier than the exact same gas versions of the cars, even though they gave the TDIs fancier suspensions and wheels and whatever. People never bought diesel VWs for power what the hell, it was always mileage.
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Apr 13, 2020 03:55
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PT6A posted:No, it's still complete bullshit in my opinion, because the test cycle is known and apparently designing a car around that to game the numbers is okay, but detecting the test cycle and doing something different is not. Here's a question: to test the manual transmission versions, would it have been acceptable to detect the test cycle and simply change the recommended shift points which, bizarrely, the testers are honour-bound to follow? It would make a difference in testing, but not in the real world since I just shift based on what I think is best anyway. The only thing you are correct about is that designing for the test is a problem. There is a big difference between altering shift points for the test which might lead to a small increase in emissions in the real world and completely shutting off the emissions controls outside of the test leading to 20-30x the emissions.
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Apr 13, 2020 04:51
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Pryor on Fire posted:The thing about those TDIs is they are all slower than the equivalent gas version in the same generation. All of them. There isn't better low end torque, there isn't smoother high end power or whatever other marketing nonsense you've absorbed. They are all slower and shittier than the exact same gas versions of the cars, even though they gave the TDIs fancier suspensions and wheels and whatever. Better torque, better MPG, better range, higher trim levels? Mk6 Golf 2.5: 170hp/177tq 22/30 MPG Mk6 Golf TDI: 140hp/236tq 30/42 MPG 0-60 is 7.8 in the gas and the TDI is 8.6. Neither are particularly quick but it’s less than a second difference. Wow why would someone possibly consider the TDI
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Apr 13, 2020 13:11
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The VAG 1.9TDi engine is the butt of a whole load of jokes in Europe, the Passat 1.9TDi is like the weapon of choice for awful people to drive pegged at the redline down the highway, vomiting black smoke, until it inevitably blows up in the middle of nowhere. If you see an 00s Passat with the bonnet open at the side of a motorway, it's almost always a 1.9tdi with a slack-jawed, tracksuited yokel scratching his head stood next to it. Frequently the same guy that writes disparaging comments about expensive classic cars in facebook marketplace ads.Godzilla07 posted:Everyone was cheating because it is hard to get diesels to comply with modern emissions standards IDK maybe if they can't make them comply, they shouldn't make them  Or relax the emission standards to reflect actual real world figures
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Apr 13, 2020 14:18
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Diesels sound terrible and that's reason enough to never buy one.
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Apr 13, 2020 14:26
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Throatwarbler posted:Who gives a gently caress about VW's customers? They knew what they were signing up for. VW sold cars that emitted vastly more carcinogens into the air than allowed, and did so by cheating on the government mandated tests that are designed to stop car makers from selling cars that dump carcinogens into the air and actively killing people. Somehow other car makers managed to stay in business without doing that. you're going to have to explain to me how the average buyer knew that VW was cheating on emissions testing
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Apr 13, 2020 14:32
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I meant VWs are bad cars in general and no one who buys one could claim to not know, so who cares about them. Not like individual VW owners were meaningfully impacted negatively by emissions cheating anyway, if anything they got to buy cars they shouldn't have been allowed to buy int he first place and VW made them whole afterwards.
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Apr 13, 2020 14:36
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I mean it's hard to look at/smell a diesel and think to yourself "hmm yes this is environmentally friendly" like clearly loads of people in the 00s did when it was touted as the "green option". But saying VW customers knew exactly what was going on is pushing it a bit 
Grakkus fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 14:42
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Throatwarbler posted:I meant VWs are bad cars in general and no one who buys one could claim to not know, so who cares about them. Not like individual VW owners were meaningfully impacted negatively by emissions cheating anyway, if anything they got to buy cars they shouldn't have been allowed to buy int he first place and VW made them whole afterwards. edgy
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Apr 13, 2020 14:44
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