SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

and economic populism in the form of "restrained capitalism with social nets" isn't offensive to anyone among the base, even hamilton liberals, except trust fund billionaires that are less racist than their more kleptocratic counterparts

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:12

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# ? May 25, 2024 06:50

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

What happened to the dem thread or is this it

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:14

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

Homeless Friend posted:

https://twitter.com/tomperez/status/815256185498664960

This dude is going to get endlessly dunked on by Trump

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:16

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

zegermans posted:

What happened to the dem thread or is this it

It still has my name attached so I assume it remains the Dem thread yah

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:17

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

This dude is going to get endlessly dunked on by Trump

Only person Trump has ever dunked on was Jeb Bush.

Ted Cruz's downfall was more of an own goal than anything else.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:17

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

This dude is going to get endlessly dunked on by Trump

yeah but at least he has shown an ability to win elections

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:18

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

Venom Snake posted:

It still has my name attached so I assume it remains the Dem thread yah

This is what happens when you leave us alone for too long. :mad:

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:18

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

MizPiz posted:

This is what happens when you leave us alone for too long.

The fact this thread has maintained like an average 4 rating makes me proud to have made the only good dem thread ever but well it's still a dem thread.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:19

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

zegermans posted:

yeah but at least he has shown an ability to win elections

We know, but Trump can dunk on him for plenty more reasons other than being the one who can actually win an election.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:19

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

zegermans posted:

yeah but at least he has shown an ability to win elections

calling the dnc vote an election perhaps lends it too much legitimacy

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:20

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

e: wrong thread

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:20

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Homeless Friend posted:

calling the dnc vote an election perhaps lends it too much legitimacy

The only legitimate elections are the ones won by people I support

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:22

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

zegermans posted:

The only legitimate elections are the ones won by people I support

it's not a public office

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:25

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

Venom Snake posted:

The fact this thread has maintained like an average 4 rating makes me proud to have made the only good dem thread ever but well it's still a dem thread.

yeah but what is voter turnout? I've never voted for a thread

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:26

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

the current democratic platform of making things more equal by using institutions to ensure that everyone gets at least a shot at opportunity - by holding runaway educational costs in check, by making basic instruments like health care affordable, by encouraging sane regulations that lower barriers to entry for small, disruptive businesses rather than raise them - resonates incredibly well with an ostensibly centrist base. the data is very clear that socially, the democrats' platform is generally on the right side of the electorate right now. more people want weed legal than don't, more people want lgtbq rights than don't, more people want to see the current enforcement of deporting criminals rather than families than don't (and their alternative is generally to deport all the browns).

where the left loses out is when they're like "also, kill the rich" because whether you like it or not people are personally very, very optimistic of their personal economic outlooks even if the general outlook is very bad. what was the statistic during the entire i am the 99% bullshit, something like 10% of america thinks that they're in the top 1%? every time you talk about raising taxes on the 1% you are instantly losing not just the actual 1%, who have a lot of ways to agitate because they have money, you are losing the 10% of voters who style themselves as the 1%. a large, large number of people in america are incredibly hopeful and see themselves climbing to that 250k/yr bracket somehow. this is the most frustrating part about talking to left-leaning people for me. i'm ostensibly a conservative in that i believe in small government and adherence to clear rules. but i could not possibly give less of a poo poo about hot-button social issues. the republican party is a dumpster fire that isn't interested in actually crafting an inclusive economic framework and spends all of their time trying to gently caress brown and gay people over. socialism is also not an inclusive framework because the way american socialists go about it you might as well not bother founding your own business or working twice as hard at skilled work. socialism isn't inherently bad - gently caress, roads, power lines, and police forces are socialist, i wish the right would get the gently caress over themselves already on that word - but the whole gently caress earners plan that the far left has right now is simply not going to resonate in america. i'm not sure it ever would have, but it certainly doesn't right now.

i mean if clear rules and equal shots is what you mean by economic populism then that's v cool but that is not what the op was talking about even a little. or if he was he's just as loving bad at messaging as the rest of the democratic party.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:26

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

Didn't Obama personally call DNC members and asked them to vote for Failin' Tom ?

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:26

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

Reminder that party chairs don't really matter. It's about not manipulating elections and voters and letting Democratic voters decide who should represent the party in general elections, instead of the establishment. And it's about getting legitimate candidates into every single election in the country and not forfeiting elections out of the gate.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:28

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

tadashi posted:

Reminder that party chairs don't really matter. It's about not manipulating elections and voters and letting Democratic voters decide who should represent the party in general elections, instead of the establishment. And it's about getting legitimate candidates into every single election in the country and not forfeiting elections out of the gate.

yes this is all a big nothingburger and ellison being slurred with anti-semitism by billionare donars just goes to show how utterly unimportant this is

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:29

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

loquacius posted:

the reason Hillary was bad was that she did not stand for anything apart from "Tormp Bad" (SEE: John Kerry)

We need our politicians to have a strong, compelling, and above all sincerely-held message. Economic populism is one such message and the best one we got going rn

An important question that I don't see addressed very often is whether we're capable of being better at economic populism than a lying televangelist snake oil circus ringmaster. And, I mean, I think probably yes, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Of course if we spend the next four years shouting at each other about Hillary Bad, it's not going to loving matter.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:30

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

Coolguye posted:

the current democratic platform of making things more equal by using institutions to ensure that everyone gets at least a shot at opportunity - by holding runaway educational costs in check, by making basic instruments like health care affordable, by encouraging sane regulations that lower barriers to entry for small, disruptive businesses rather than raise them - resonates incredibly well with an ostensibly centrist base. the data is very clear that socially, the democrats' platform is generally on the right side of the electorate right now. more people want weed legal than don't, more people want lgtbq rights than don't, more people want to see the current enforcement of deporting criminals rather than families than don't (and their alternative is generally to deport all the browns).

where the left loses out is when they're like "also, kill the rich" because whether you like it or not people are personally very, very optimistic of their personal economic outlooks even if the general outlook is very bad. what was the statistic during the entire i am the 99% bullshit, something like 10% of america thinks that they're in the top 1%? every time you talk about raising taxes on the 1% you are instantly losing not just the actual 1%, who have a lot of ways to agitate because they have money, you are losing the 10% of voters who style themselves as the 1%. a large, large number of people in america are incredibly hopeful and see themselves climbing to that 250k/yr bracket somehow. this is the most frustrating part about talking to left-leaning people for me. i'm ostensibly a conservative in that i believe in small government and adherence to clear rules. but i could not possibly give less of a poo poo about hot-button social issues. the republican party is a dumpster fire that isn't interested in actually crafting an inclusive economic framework and spends all of their time trying to gently caress brown and gay people over. socialism is also not an inclusive framework because the way american socialists go about it you might as well not bother founding your own business or working twice as hard at skilled work. socialism isn't inherently bad - gently caress, roads, power lines, and police forces are socialist, i wish the right would get the gently caress over themselves already on that word - but the whole gently caress earners plan that the far left has right now is simply not going to resonate in america. i'm not sure it ever would have, but it certainly doesn't right now.

i mean if clear rules and equal shots is what you mean by economic populism then that's v cool but that is not what the op was talking about even a little. or if he was he's just as loving bad at messaging as the rest of the democratic party.

i hope your taxes go up by a lot

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:31

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

its so unimportant that an establishment lackey was handpicked by obama and effectively installed thats how unimportant everything is!

nothingburgers for everyone!

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:31

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

docbeard posted:

An important question that I don't see addressed very often is whether we're capable of being better at economic populism than a lying televangelist snake oil circus ringmaster. And, I mean, I think probably yes, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Of course if we spend the next four years shouting at each other about Hillary Bad, it's not going to loving matter.

according to various districts throughout the country, especially those in colorado, we can be good at that at least at a citystate level

it's when you get to the congress level is where your options are slim and there are people entirely bankrolled through Kleptocrats United, and most people are too disconnected from politics to understand that you need the former (small offices) to help with the latter (larger offices) problem

e: there are corporatists who don't poo poo where they eat (instead in favor of making GBS threads elsewhere), south korea and financial centers of china come to mind

Anime Schoolgirl has issued a correction as of 15:35 on Feb 27, 2017

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:33

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Didn't Obama personally call DNC members and asked them to vote for Failin' Tom ?

Please leave the nicknames to your intellectual superiors (Donald Trump)

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:34

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

docbeard posted:

An important question that I don't see addressed very often is whether we're capable of being better at economic populism than a lying televangelist snake oil circus ringmaster. And, I mean, I think probably yes, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Of course if we spend the next four years shouting at each other about Hillary Bad, it's not going to loving matter.

She is real bad though....

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:34

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

Baloogan posted:

yes this is all a big nothingburger and ellison being slurred with anti-semitism by billionare donars just goes to show how utterly unimportant this is

Holy poo poo, Baloogan, an insane Canadian alcoholic sewer inspector that's obsessed with anime has a better grasp on the situation than the centrist la-la-landers

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:39

Theris: Oct 9, 2007

Coolguye posted:

i'm ostensibly a conservative in that i believe in small government and adherence to clear rules. but i could not possibly give less of a poo poo about hot-button social issues. the republican party is a dumpster fire that isn't interested in actually crafting an inclusive economic framework and spends all of their time trying to gently caress brown and gay people over. socialism is also not an inclusive framework because the way american socialists go about it you might as well not bother founding your own business or working twice as hard at skilled work. socialism isn't inherently bad - gently caress, roads, power lines, and police forces are socialist, i wish the right would get the gently caress over themselves already on that word - but the whole gently caress earners plan that the far left has right now is simply not going to resonate in america. i'm not sure it ever would have, but it certainly doesn't right now.

Oh hey what's up, me from 10 years ago? I don't know how we're posting across time but let me use this opportunity to blow your mind: in 2017 Donald Trump is president, and we're a socialist.

Seriously you're me about the time I realized I wasn't a Republican anymore. I didn't really ever stop moving left from there.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:43

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

life comes at you fast, like your company immolating your 401k to put in an executive parachute package

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:45

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Coolguye posted:

the current democratic platform of making things more equal by using institutions to ensure that everyone gets at least a shot at opportunity - by holding runaway educational costs in check, by making basic instruments like health care affordable, by encouraging sane regulations that lower barriers to entry for small, disruptive businesses rather than raise them - resonates incredibly well with an ostensibly centrist base. the data is very clear that socially, the democrats' platform is generally on the right side of the electorate right now. more people want weed legal than don't, more people want lgtbq rights than don't, more people want to see the current enforcement of deporting criminals rather than families than don't (and their alternative is generally to deport all the browns).

where the left loses out is when they're like "also, kill the rich" because whether you like it or not people are personally very, very optimistic of their personal economic outlooks even if the general outlook is very bad. what was the statistic during the entire i am the 99% bullshit, something like 10% of america thinks that they're in the top 1%? every time you talk about raising taxes on the 1% you are instantly losing not just the actual 1%, who have a lot of ways to agitate because they have money, you are losing the 10% of voters who style themselves as the 1%. a large, large number of people in america are incredibly hopeful and see themselves climbing to that 250k/yr bracket somehow. this is the most frustrating part about talking to left-leaning people for me. i'm ostensibly a conservative in that i believe in small government and adherence to clear rules. but i could not possibly give less of a poo poo about hot-button social issues. the republican party is a dumpster fire that isn't interested in actually crafting an inclusive economic framework and spends all of their time trying to gently caress brown and gay people over. socialism is also not an inclusive framework because the way american socialists go about it you might as well not bother founding your own business or working twice as hard at skilled work. socialism isn't inherently bad - gently caress, roads, power lines, and police forces are socialist, i wish the right would get the gently caress over themselves already on that word - but the whole gently caress earners plan that the far left has right now is simply not going to resonate in america. i'm not sure it ever would have, but it certainly doesn't right now.

i mean if clear rules and equal shots is what you mean by economic populism then that's v cool but that is not what the op was talking about even a little. or if he was he's just as loving bad at messaging as the rest of the democratic party.

Sir do you want to try our new doritos tacos locos

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:45

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

have you heard the news?!

the McRib is back!

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:47

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Coolguye posted:

more people want weed legal than don't, more people want lgtbq rights than don't, more people want to see the current enforcement of deporting criminals rather than families than don't (and their alternative is generally to deport all the browns).

The current democratic party opposes legal weed, opposed lgtbq rights until they were forced to acknowledge them by the courts (refusing to recognize them even in times and places where it had majority support), and have been big advocates of deporting people while keeping our current hosed up immigration rules in place, just... quietly, in a non-Trump-like way.

The Democratic Party platform may have plenty of words, but in reality it is this:

"A dedication to inaction in the face of adversity"

Name something, anything, that the party (not the voters, the party) has genuinely fought for.

Also, loving lol at this:

quote:

The current democratic platform of making things more equal by using institutions to ensure that everyone gets at least a shot at opportunity - by holding runaway educational costs in check, by making basic instruments like health care affordable, by encouraging sane regulations that lower barriers to entry for small, disruptive businesses rather than raise them

When have they done any of this?

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:51

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

2016 Dems were a status quo party that thought things were basically fine in the face of overwhelming evidence that things are actually not fine at all. My big worry is that 2017/2018 Dems will be largely the same just with revised marketing slogans that will dead cat bounce their way back into thinking that they Found the Message while everything continues to be not fine at all.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:58

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

docbeard posted:

An important question that I don't see addressed very often is whether we're capable of being better at economic populism than a lying televangelist snake oil circus ringmaster. And, I mean, I think probably yes, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Of course if we spend the next four years shouting at each other about Hillary Bad, it's not going to loving matter.

Hillary Bad because her and her team (that still run things in the party) won't do poo poo about economic populism because that kind of talk upsets their donors and lol that you think otherwise

# ? Feb 27, 2017 15:58

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

The Brown Menace posted:

Sir do you want to try our new doritos tacos locos

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GlyphGryph posted:

When have they done any of this?

this is ostensibly the platform that hilary ran on, actually, she just never talked about it because instead tormp bad. it was on her website and everything. you'll notice i talked about the current platform. hilary was a terrible candidate if we can get through an entire election season and you don't even know this.

Theris posted:

Oh hey what's up, me from 10 years ago? I don't know how we're posting across time but let me use this opportunity to blow your mind: in 2017 Donald Trump is president, and we're a socialist.

Seriously you're me about the time I realized I wasn't a Republican anymore. I didn't really ever stop moving left from there.

yeah i've been slightly right of center since pretty much 2010, but the difference is i shifted from left of center rather than from far right. i've always been registered as an independent because i've always hated the power the social conservative faction of the republican party has and i also hate the fiscally irresponsible part of the democratic party. like i am down af with most of the social programs on a progressive agenda but every time people stop talking before they say how they're realistically going to pay for it i just want to punch someone

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:00

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

2016 Dems were a status quo party that thought things were basically fine in the face of overwhelming evidence that things are actually not fine at all. My big worry is that 2017/2018 Dems will be largely the same just with revised marketing slogans that will dead cat bounce their way back into thinking that they Found the Message while everything continues to be not fine at all.

reading 20s political literature makes the current situation much more hilarious

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:00

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

2016 Dems were a status quo party that thought things were basically fine in the face of overwhelming evidence that things are actually not fine at all. My big worry is that 2017/2018 Dems will be largely the same just with revised marketing slogans that will dead cat bounce their way back into thinking that they Found the Message while everything continues to be not fine at all.

What I'm most curious about is how badly the national level's idiotic message can screw over state level parties. The one where I'm had had reps vote unanimously for Ellison and would have broke for Bernie back in the primary had it not been for a rogue superdelagate, so it's deffo on the progressive side compared to the national establishment which is so good at loving over democrats they're basically republicans.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:05

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Alter Ego posted:

On its face, this is a wholly inoffensive statement, but it's been used as a dog whistle in the past for "compromise the poo poo out of everything so we can say we did something".

Still, I'll give Perez a shot. I was on Team Ellison, but I'm not going to jump off my roof because he lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr5Ul5z4vm4

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:10