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I pretty much said it as a joke specifically because of Avengers 200 since the person was asking about Avengers villains. I think a number of the comics from his time are great and there were a number of character/title defining runs during his tenure so I really don't have an overly negative opinion of his Marvel work at all. Avengers 200 does grant him Avengers villain status though.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:49
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It would have to be some sort of weird group/shifting personality thing between him, George Perez, David Michelinie, and Bob Layton, all of whom are credited writers on the book and also Jim Salicrup who edited it and apparently threw everything together at the last minute? Shooter washes his hands of the book, claims he has no memory of it, and still publicly apologizes for letting it get published under his tenure. I mean, it's kind of funny how it just sat in the dustbin as "a really bad comic" for about ten years before people started complaining about how truly distasteful it was by which point all parties can go "uhhh it wasn't me" but still. I guess it's possible that the true villain of the piece will be the EiC who lets Civil War II get onto the shelves?
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Sep 22, 2016 21:56
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X-O posted:Jim Shooter presided over Avengers 200, but he also gave me Valiant. So it balances out. Imagine a Marvel Comics made in Valiant's image. Imagine it.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:57
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A quick question. What series is the sweary English woman that was in the last few issues of A Force from and is it worth reading? She kind of reminds me of Sensational She Hulk with swearing personality wise.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:08
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Anime_Otaku posted:A quick question. What series is the sweary English woman that was in the last few issues of A Force from and is it worth reading? She kind of reminds me of Sensational She Hulk with swearing personality wise. She is best known for being in Nextwave, which you should absolutely read. She appeared in a few things before that but wasn't really the same person, personality wise.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:12
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Nextwave. Also the Marvel Zombies tie-in for Secret Wars. Read both. Even if you didn't read any other Secret Wars stuff you'll be OK as it's self contained.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:14
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Edge & Christian posted:Avengers 200 was a real piece of poo poo and I guess he kept a lot of creators from their full artistic expression or whatever, but he also published Miller's Daredevil, Simonson's Thor, the prime years of Claremont X-Men, Byrne FF, Stern/Buscema Avengers, Stern/Romita Spider-Man, etc. etc. etc. I'm all for auteur theory of comics or whatever, but given the post-1987 track record of guys like Claremont/Byrne/Miller, are we 100% sure that Shooter was an evil bad evil bad guy for shooting down some of their pure artistic ideas? Off the top of my head, the one big example I remember of a creative dispute he resolved was when Claremont wrote a scene in either an X-Men or New Mutants book in which Lilandra learns from Xavier that Reed Richards spared Galactus's life, which prompts her to go to the Baxter Building and chew Reed out for it. Byrne was upset, because he felt that Claremont should have asked him about writing the FF into one of his stories, and when he went to complain ,Shooter's supposed to have basically told Byrne to wise up and try to make a story out of it, which led to Byrne writing "The Trial of Reed Richards" in FF #262. Byrne also has a story where he claims that Shooter was criticising a piece of Spider-Man art out where the entire office could hear him - I believe it was by Saviuk - and Byrne claims he delivered an epic  that left Shooter speechless and resulted in the whole bullpen bursting into applause. I'm somewhat less inclined to believe this, because I have also heard that John Byrne once hosted a barbecue where Jim Shooter was burned in effigy.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:17
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Yvonmukluk posted:Imagine a Marvel Comics made in Valiant's image. Imagine it. Which Valiant, there are 4 major incarnations. Edit: 1. Original Valiant as brought together and envisioned by Jim Shooter. 2. Post Shooter Valiant - some great ideas but bloated, directionless and unremarkable creators for the most part. 3. Acclaim/Valiant - total reimagining that gave us Quantum & Woody and a great new take on Ninjak and X-O. 3A. Shooter came back to restart things/merge with the original continuity but no money = no books. 4. The current stuff that I assume you were talking about. Rhyno fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 22:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Byrne also has a story where he claims that Shooter was criticising a piece of Spider-Man art out where the entire office could hear him - I believe it was by Saviuk - and Byrne claims he delivered an epic If it was Saviuk I'm not surprised. Getting to Web Of in the rotation of all the Spidey comics always a letdown.
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Sep 22, 2016 23:07
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I've also heard that Byrne story. Funny that he can't remember what the quip he said was nor can he name a single staffer who was actually there.
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Sep 22, 2016 23:13
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the current valiant aka "the good valiant"
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Sep 23, 2016 03:20
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I loved Songbird and Centurius showing up in Power Man and Iron Fist.  Nice to see this book drawing from that Luke Cage era, and I don't want Songbird to disappear when Ewing's New Avengers run ends so I want her popping up as much as possible to help her on her way to the solo series I want.IIRC, she's on a forthcoming Thunderbolts cover for Marvel Now?
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Sep 23, 2016 11:30
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Rhyno posted:Which Valiant, there are 4 major incarnations. Original Valiant, since presumably that is what a Shooter-owned Marvel would try to be. Wheat Loaf posted:Off the top of my head, the one big example I remember of a creative dispute he resolved was when Claremont wrote a scene in either an X-Men or New Mutants book in which Lilandra learns from Xavier that Reed Richards spared Galactus's life, which prompts her to go to the Baxter Building and chew Reed out for it. Byrne was upset, because he felt that Claremont should have asked him about writing the FF into one of his stories, and when he went to complain ,Shooter's supposed to have basically told Byrne to wise up and try to make a story out of it, which led to Byrne writing "The Trial of Reed Richards" in FF #262.
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Sep 23, 2016 12:30
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Yvonmukluk posted:Didn't Shooter also arrange a promotional tour of France to keep Claremont happy? Considering how much of Image's foundation was based on disgruntled creatives, it makes you wonder if that would have headed off at the pass. Considering Jim Lee jumping ship was apparently the main tipping point (since he'd been a company man), that's a pretty major thing. It's often forgotten that, although he didn't become a partner in the business in the end or go to work for them, Claremont was one of the creators who announced the creation of Image alongside Lee, McFarlane, Liefeld and the rest. I'm not sure if that's because he had a personal material grievance or he just agreed with them in principle - as the story goes, he quit X-Men because he was tired of Bob Harras siding with Lee (whose art was seen as the title's main draw by that time) when they ran into creative differences.
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Sep 23, 2016 13:37
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BrianWilly posted:I don't want to sound like a broken record that harps on this thing but I can't stress enough just how little of an actual story CW2 is and more just Bendis throwing random events at a velcro wall and trying to make them seem deep and weighty when there's virtually no rhyme or substance in anything that's happened so far. I may have put more thought into this than the actual writers, but I think there might be an actual story happening. I think Carol really donked things up when she put together that huge system of statisticians and ethics professors to decide what to do with the visions. That system functions according to rules, and as such, it can be predicted. Ulysses must be factoring that in every time he makes a prediction. At this point, that might be the only way his powers can generate a vision of the future that will be come true. That's why his visions have become self-fulfilling. His analysis of the future has to include the reaction to his vision, and the feedback loop ends up producing a result which is now going to be true. I think his power isn't about seeing the future anymore, it's about creating visions that will become true when people see the vision. Alternate theory: Ulysses doesn't have the ability to see the future at all. He is a mind reader, and the only mind he can read is that of the celestial being who randomly attacked Earth at the start of CV2. That celestial can see everything that's happening, and he amuses himself by trying to guess what will happen next. He wants to kill Ulysses for stealing his thoughts, but he can't do anything without his action being predicted, so now he's just loving with people until someone wipes out Ulysses for him. Maxwell Adams fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 14:08
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So what's the newest Civil War II rundown, why is it being questions how Plot Devices powers work? I am not going to read this crap and the only thing I saw was he's now predicted Miles is going to kill Captain Hydra.
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Sep 23, 2016 14:27
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Onmi posted:the only thing I saw was he's now predicted Miles is going to kill Captain Hydra. Someone stated that his powers really only say what will happen if things carry on their current course (Which isn't new news, cause preventative measures have been taken this whole time.) 20 pages of completely inconsequential fights happened, then that quoted vision stopped everyone and the issue ended with Carol saying "Y'r under future-crime arrest, Spidey!" e: Nova said "Ya burnt!" at somebody. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 15:11
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It was probably time for Claremont to go at that point that he left and I don't think things instantly went wrong without him.
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Sep 23, 2016 17:12
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With the ending of cw 2 #5 being what it was I'm not sure we're supposed know what Ulysses' actual power is at all
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Sep 23, 2016 17:31
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site posted:With the ending of cw 2 #5 being what it was I'm not sure we're supposed know what Ulysses' actual power is at all McGuffin
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Sep 23, 2016 18:22
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Man I do not know why they keep letting event comics because with the exception of Siege, they have been uniformly terrible. CWII is just such a letdown after Secret Wars. I know SW would be a hard act to follow, but god drat CWII is just awful.
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Sep 23, 2016 18:55
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Event comics tend to sell and get attention.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:32
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Roth posted:Event comics tend to sell and get attention. except in this specific case where civil war 2 is not really helping marvel not get slaughtered by DC for two months in a row
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Sep 23, 2016 19:37
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Monaghan posted:Man I do not know why they keep letting event comics because with the exception of Siege, they have been uniformly terrible. But i just can't wait to see how miles blows up congress omgs the suspense!!!
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Sep 23, 2016 19:38
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I didn't say that this one was working.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:39
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Rick posted:It was probably time for Claremont to go at that point that he left and I don't think things instantly went wrong without him. I always thought it was a bit of a shame that the arc immediately after Claremont's departure involved the random, reasonably senseless slaughter of a lot of B-list villains like the Hellions.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:42
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site posted:But i just can't wait to see how miles blows up congress omgs the suspense!!! Miles hasn't venom zapped a building yet...
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Sep 23, 2016 19:48
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There's no context to this vision, maybe Miles was hitting President trump at the state of the Union and Hydra cap was trying to stop him
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Sep 23, 2016 19:52
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Blockhouse posted:Except in this specific case where civil war 2 is not really helping marvel not get slaughtered by DC for two months in a row I'd say they're both marketing-driven moves to goose sales, but a big event can be done pretty much annually (and has been for over a decade now) and you can only reboot your entire line so often but DC's done it twice for short term gains in the past five years, so who's to say DC won't do it again next summer so that they can "slaughter" Marvel in sales for two months out of the year again in 2017? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 20:04
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Monaghan posted:Man I do not know why they keep letting event comics because with the exception of Siege, they have been uniformly terrible. And they do it because people like you continue to buy them despite not liking them.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:07
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Endless Mike posted:Siege is a weird choice to pick as your non-terrible event. Eh I think Siege was a solid "meh."The characters didn't act completely out of character, it was short enough to get to the point and the plot wasn't too bad. EDIT- I also realized I didn't type "letting bendis write." event comics. Siege is the only one of his event comics that didn't suck. Also, I'm just going what I read in summaries of the issue, but thanks for being kind of a dick for no reason. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 20:11
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Blockhouse posted:except in this specific case where civil war 2 is not really helping marvel not get slaughtered by DC for two months in a row You're comparing a medium relaunch to a line-wide event crossover, and in either case Marvel's selling fine in physical (and probably doing even better in digital considering how many of their top sellers are doing killer numbers on digital apparently).
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Sep 23, 2016 20:13
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CW2 #5 was the definition of a filler issue, holy poo poo, my eyes were completely glazing over by the end. How many issues is this supposed to be? Just jump to the Hulk Goes Savage part, poo poo, we already know what the deal is with it now. Gonna spoiler the next bit in case you're not reading Diet Poison fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 20:30
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Um actually there is so much story that it had to be extended an extra issue to fit it all in
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Sep 23, 2016 20:34
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I will admit that post was mostly biased because civil war 2 has been awful on every level and I've enjoyed like every DC Rebirth book
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Sep 23, 2016 20:48
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I've really enjoyed CWII, but I've definitely enjoyed Rebirth more. I just don't find it surprising that an initiative built entirely around "We're sorry about the last five years of comics (outside of the Bat-Books), we're gonna go back to what worked to the point where every single Superman related title is doing a redux of some section of The Death and Rebirth of Superman" sold well. They framed and promoted this entire reboot as one giant mea culpa and it worked. In contrast House of Ideas side it's basically a glorified movie tie-in event because that's where the money is right now in Marvel, they enjoy the critical and commercial success of both their comics and their movies and haven't really focused on rocking the boat, and definitely not anywhere near the level that DC did with Rebirth.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:18
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Shattered Now! will bring it all back. Don't you worry. You won't be able to keep Foolkiller on the shelves!
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Sep 23, 2016 21:49
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the new wolverine has had by far the most sensible reaction to civil war 2
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Sep 23, 2016 22:11
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Teenage Fansub posted:Shattered Now! will bring it all back. Don't you worry. Haha. gently caress that book. My shop didn't even bother to order enough to get the hip hop variant. We have a bunch of people wanting it because it homages an ICP album, and we're located in Juggalo central. They've even been in the shop a few times.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:21
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Manatee Cannon posted:the new wolverine has had by far the most sensible reaction to civil war 2 Spider-Man too.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:33
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