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tef posted:anyway like not that anyone cares but if you want the edited verison of my point https://programmingisterrible.com/post/176657481103/repeat-yourself-do-more-than-one-thing-and i literally wrote it down elsewhere but tef, i don't want to think, i just want to write code
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Aug 8, 2018 03:23
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tef was making a good point the whole time and you could smell the misconstrusion of it two threads away
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Aug 8, 2018 03:24
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Samuel Johnson posted:Defending the r-word is the last refuge of the edgy jagoff
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Aug 8, 2018 03:27
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Brain Candy posted:but tef, i don't want to think, i just want to write code that's fine, write code in order to think about it, then change it as you understand what you're doing, it's cool
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Aug 8, 2018 03:54
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using the phrase “R word” like it was nothing is cultural appropriation and offensive: “SV may be a little bit ‘TechBros before Negros’ but we smart and 95% white people have our own single-letter slur word so those blacks can’t have it that bad” - you, literally
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Aug 8, 2018 03:55
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tef posted:that's fine, write code in order to think about it, then change it as you understand what you're doing, it's cool no no, i want rules so i get it exactly right the first time
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Aug 8, 2018 03:59
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jit bull transpile posted:tef was making a good point the whole time and you could smell the misconstrusion of it two threads away buried in a shitton of angry rhetoric eh anyway let's talk about computers: they're bad oh and welp we got a live one
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Aug 8, 2018 03:59
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Brain Candy posted:no no, i want rules so i get it exactly right the first time copy what other people have done and hope they solved the same problems you have? most of the time that means you want a job customising wordpress installs, or being a database janitor there's stronger rules the more you move into a relatively slow moving domain, if that helps
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Aug 8, 2018 04:01
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tef posted:copy what other people have done and hope they solved the same problems you have? but tef, how will i know that i deserve my figgies if i don't write everything myself?
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Aug 8, 2018 04:09
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Max Facetime posted:using the phrase “R word” like it was nothing is cultural appropriation and offensive:
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Aug 8, 2018 04:15
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Brain Candy posted:but tef, how will i know that i deserve my figgies if i don't write everything myself? that's why i said to become a dba, then you get the money for not writing code but carefully nodding and putting an index on things
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Aug 8, 2018 04:19
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I like how pretty much everyone came together in the end to agree that bad abstractions are bad
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Aug 8, 2018 04:22
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tef posted:that's why i said to become a dba, then you get the money for not writing code but carefully nodding and putting an index on things i don't know tef, i don't think unicorns need dba's. i want to work on something exciting! and new! then i could use a framework. that's not writing much code right?
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Aug 8, 2018 04:40
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tef posted:that's fine, write code in order to think about it, then change it as you understand what you're doing, it's cool Hey have you been watching me
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Aug 8, 2018 05:02
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I delete more abstractions I've created than I keep I'm not sure what that means
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Aug 8, 2018 05:03
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Symbolic Butt posted:I like how pretty much everyone came together in the end to agree that bad abstractions are bad and all we needed was another two+ pages of people talking past each other
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Aug 8, 2018 05:04
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Thermopyle posted:I delete more abstractions I've created than I keep it means that most of the code you've written is poo poo. welcome to the club.
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Aug 8, 2018 05:04
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i work in the dreamworld of no-abstraction-land and hoo boy does it suck
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Aug 8, 2018 05:06
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Max Facetime posted:using the phrase “R word” like it was nothing is cultural appropriation and offensive: do you throw a fit any time someone says "the f-word"
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Aug 8, 2018 05:23
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Thermopyle posted:I delete more abstractions I've created than I keep it means you delete abstractions that you didn't create? some kind of negative abstraction... joking aside, I get this. I feel like most of my ambitious attempts don't work and I revert back to doing the most direct thing but I guess sometimes doing the direct thing is not immediately obvious when writing code, you design abstractions to help you figure out the solution for the problem? oh god I'm rambling vague programming self-help insight, I'm turning into tef Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 05:51
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since all code is an abstraction I love deleting abstractions
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Aug 8, 2018 05:52
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Max Facetime posted:using the phrase “R word” like it was nothing is cultural appropriation and offensive: first of all, i'm literally black so lol at trying to race shame me, but second of all you are picking possibly the world's dumbest hill to die on: someone else's use of a slur that they already apologized for using.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:18
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it’s hard to disagree with most of your points Ted, because they’re pretty general dare I say abstract observations about terrible programming, but preaching at everyone like you’re the one who’s got it all figured out and everyone else doesn’t just makes you look like an rear end in a top hat. none of what you’re saying is even controversial or original
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Aug 8, 2018 06:40
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reading most of what you’ve put out there, I really wonder why you choose to do this as a profession (are you working?) I feel disillusioned doing this poo poo too but I’d like to think if I reached your level of disillusionment that I’d look for some other type of work
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Aug 8, 2018 06:46
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I think, for me, the big insight is that we often spend too much time thinking about the structure and organization of our code before we even have a program that does anything. It's more important to write something that works well and fault tolerantly and then look for areas where the organization could be improved. Yeah, that might be harder at times, but you now have a working state to check against for regressions so you know if your more structured refactor is OK or making things worse.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:48
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jit bull transpile posted:we often spend too much time thinking about the structure and organization of our code before we even have a program that does anything. It's more important to write something that works well and fault tolerantly and then look for areas where the organization could be improved. who can disagree with this statement? my point is that this is not a big insight hell this HOT TAKE applies to just about any creative discipline... musicians go through this, writers go through this, artists go through this, etc. a lot of them grow out of it and a lot of them don't
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Aug 8, 2018 06:56
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part of the problem is that in some sense it's hard to learn from others' mistakes. experience is the best teacher and guess what a ton of poo poo heads are experiencing these things for the first time all at once, but there's also a bunch of them that never escape the terrible pit and we have to work with them every day. it's exhausting but hey what are you going to do, manual labor?
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Aug 8, 2018 07:00
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BREAKING NEWS "conventional wisdom" in $DISCIPLINE can be misapplied/misconstrued/whatever, and often is. now I'm going to tell you why you're a fuckin idiot
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Aug 8, 2018 07:06
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why did you light the stymiesignal
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Aug 8, 2018 07:06
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AWWNAW posted:who can disagree with this statement? my point is that this is not a big insight hell this HOT TAKE applies to just about any creative discipline... musicians go through this, writers go through this, artists go through this, etc. a lot of them grow out of it and a lot of them don't I dunno, I think people start getting steered wrong from day one in cs degrees where half of what you learn is whatever is idiomatic in the language your department has picked and you start getting engrained into those patterns without even understanding why. Of course you're gonna be obsessed with beautifully organized hierarchies of types when all you do is write idiomatic oo Java throughout your education. I don't necessarily think the insight is important for junior programmers so much as educators and seniors who are mentoring young programmers. Senior programmers often also focus on code structure before function when reviewing junior code. I've been on the receiving end of that for sure.
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Aug 8, 2018 07:07
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also, hell is other peoples code
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Aug 8, 2018 07:07
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The amount of people arguing against tef in these very forums should show you how untraditional these ideas are.
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Aug 8, 2018 07:07
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my hot take is that perhaps instead of fighting a losing battle against the plain as day inconsistencies and failures of how our work is carried out, we should be fighting against the hosed up system that screens out nearly everyone but the insufferable white men that could afford to go to college for computer touching. like everything else this problem is really just about white people
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Aug 8, 2018 07:25
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AWWNAW posted:my hot take is that perhaps instead of fighting a losing battle against the plain as day inconsistencies and failures of how our work is carried out, we should be fighting against the hosed up system that screens out nearly everyone but the insufferable white men that could afford to go to college for computer touching. like everything else this problem is really just about white people black people don't commit bugs and lovely abstractions?
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Aug 8, 2018 07:27
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AWWNAW posted:my hot take is that perhaps instead of fighting a losing battle against the plain as day inconsistencies and failures of how our work is carried out, we should be fighting against the hosed up system that screens out nearly everyone but the insufferable white men that could afford to go to college for computer touching. like everything else this problem is really just about white people My fist is in the air for ya brother
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Aug 8, 2018 07:30
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if you're going to indulge in f-word programming at least have the common decency to do it at home with your windows closed
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Aug 8, 2018 07:35
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jit bull transpile posted:I think, for me, the big insight is that we often spend too much time thinking about the structure and organization of our code before we even have a program that does anything. It's more important to write something that works well and fault tolerantly and then look for areas where the organization could be improved. And the first thing they managed to produce was an ETL script that ran at ridiculously short intervals without checking whether the previous run had finished.
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Aug 8, 2018 07:36
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bob dobbs is dead posted:black people don't commit bugs and lovely abstractions? not that i've seen (says guy who's only worked alongside exactly one black person ever in past 18 years) e: I can count the number of women of any color I've worked with on one hand too, and they're usually the best contributors on the team AWWNAW fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 07:36
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AWWNAW posted:not that i've seen (says guy who's only worked alongside exactly one black person ever in past 18 years) restating your hot (warm?) take from another angle: I sincerely believe that software development is way more of a social challenge than a technical challenge so it's no surprise that rich arrogant white dudes with no concept of empathy are bad at it.
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Aug 8, 2018 07:50
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the engineering team i'm at is about 30% white (its cuz it's 70% asian) software eng was 95% white a few decades ago but now it's 60% in america, less white than the general pop, so the empirical thing to do is to go find out what asian dudes figured out
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Aug 8, 2018 07:51
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