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We need to airdrop copies of 'The Secret' on the third world, post-haste.
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Jul 12, 2014 15:40
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MothraAttack posted:Nice burn. Speaking of self-proclaimed anti-imperialists, that reminds me of an NGO worker I know who said that she supports ISIS' destruction of colonial borders. I think it would be fair to queue up the part of their propaganda video where they blow out people's brains with a suppressed pistol on your phone and be like "colonialist borders like this teenager's skull?"
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Jul 12, 2014 16:14
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It's weird. You'd think international humanitarian workers would be more understanding, but in my experience that hasn't been the case. I'm also reminded of a manager at a human rights NGO who, after the Ghouta gas attack, said it would be best if the rebels and Assad all just fought to the death, so that way there'd be no more al Qaida or Assad in Syria. I guess like anywhere, if something's not in your field of specialty, and you don't follow it regularly otherwise, your take on it might be off.
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Jul 12, 2014 16:38
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Not sure how a self-proclaimed Caliphate is running counter to an imperialistic narrative...
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Jul 12, 2014 16:59
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It's pretty staggering how many friends of mine who are relatively progressive/left-leaning who have responded to this with "Let them kill each other". The US public seems to be utterly done with giving a poo poo about the Middle East.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:07
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J33uk posted:It's pretty staggering how many friends of mine who are relatively progressive/left-leaning who have responded to this with "Let them kill each other". The US public seems to be utterly done with giving a poo poo about the Middle East. It is the option of self determination and democracy.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:12
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Honestly, I doubt there's much else to be done. Arming different factions in a situation like this is just throwing fuel to the flame, and direct intervention basically never works. Supporting humanitarian and UN efforts in the region while hoping to hell that the Kurds manage to bloody ISIL's nose seems like the best course of action still.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:16
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whatever7 posted:America has tons of gas and oil reserve. The reason Washington wants to keep buying oil from middle east because they need to do that to keep the USD as the oil currency/world currency. And also because if we can drain other people's reserves first that's a better long-term outcome for us.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:16
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Nintendo Kid posted:And also because if we can drain other people's reserves first that's a better long-term outcome for us. It's not like you aren't drilling the poo poo out of your reserves too. You're just giving it away. Also Saudi Arabia has a looooot more oil than America.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:36
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Just The Facts posted:Outside powers haven't had much affect since WWII, at least in Sub-Sarah Africa. But, since they have no natural resources or strategic value, they've been left on own for better or worse, for the most part. I know a lot of Angolans and Guineans who would disagree with you.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:41
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Just The Facts posted:Outside powers haven't had much affect since WWII, at least in Sub-Sarah Africa. But, since they have no natural resources or strategic value, they've been left on own for better or worse, for the most part. Did anyone actually really die in the Second Congo War? I didn't see any news reports covering it so I assume it was a relatively clean affair.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:45
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Letting this whole conflict go unchecked is probably not a great idea, although this is most likely what western powers will resign themselves to.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:49
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Friendly Factory posted:Also Saudi Arabia has a looooot more oil than America. The onlu source for those figures comes from Saudi authorities, who aren't exactly trust worthy.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:50
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Friendly Factory posted:It's not like you aren't drilling the poo poo out of your reserves too. You're just giving it away. Also Saudi Arabia has a looooot more oil than America. We aren't though, we have a shitload more reserves that are untouched, despite the best efforts of oil companies. For example, drilling into the oilfields on the Atlantic continental shelf is currently being held back until at least 2017, and will likely get another staying order at that point.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:57
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J33uk posted:It's pretty staggering how many friends of mine who are relatively progressive/left-leaning who have responded to this with "Let them kill each other". The US public seems to be utterly done with giving a poo poo about the Middle East.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:58
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I used to be friends with a bunch of Kurds who believed the Middle East will never run out of oil because of a passage in the Koran haha
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Jul 12, 2014 18:02
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Miltank posted:I used to be friends with a bunch of Kurds who believed the Middle East will never run out of oil because of a passage in the Koran haha I've seen this from believers in abiotic oil claiming it was a "continuously-renewed wellspring" in that area.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:06
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Bip Roberts posted:Did anyone actually really die in the Second Congo War? I didn't see any news reports covering it so I assume it was a relatively clean affair. Very low death toll. Lumumba and Sankara, the great elder statesmen, were summoned to negotiate a ceasefire between belligerents and it went pretty smoothly.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:07
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MothraAttack posted:It's weird. You'd think international humanitarian workers would be more understanding, but in my experience that hasn't been the case. I'm also reminded of a manager at a human rights NGO who, after the Ghouta gas attack, said it would be best if the rebels and Assad all just fought to the death, so that way there'd be no more al Qaida or Assad in Syria. I guess like anywhere, if something's not in your field of specialty, and you don't follow it regularly otherwise, your take on it might be off. It's true, but I'm sure 50% of that is just because whatever idealism they had has been thoroughly beaten out of them.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:12
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McDowell posted:The onlu source for those figures comes from Saudi authorities, who aren't exactly trust worthy. Nintendo Kid posted:We aren't though, we have a shitload more reserves that are untouched, despite the best efforts of oil companies. Fair enough
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Jul 12, 2014 18:18
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Nintendo Kid posted:And also because if we can drain other people's reserves first that's a better long-term outcome for us. Or, its a pan-Judeo Christian conspiracy. 
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Jul 12, 2014 18:35
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The IF has developed it's own fire control system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcDL_Nqab-4
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Jul 12, 2014 18:57
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Muffiner posted:The IF has developed it's own fire control system: What's going on in this video?
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Jul 12, 2014 19:09
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Kurtofan posted:What's going on in this video? It's a phone app which calculates firing trajectories for artillery.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:12
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Miltank posted:I used to be friends with a bunch of Kurds who believed the Middle East will never run out of oil because of a passage in the Koran haha Well, they're not wrong; humans will have exterminated themselves long before the oil is out of the ground.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:36
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Well that and the oil needs to be actually affordable and worthwile to get out of the ground. So if global warming doesn't get us, the cost of oil certainly will.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:39
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ThirdPartyView posted:Not sure how a self-proclaimed Caliphate is running counter to an imperialistic narrative... IS wants to draw borders in the Middle East that are not the borders drawn by the departing colonial powers. Ergo, imperialism: destroyed. I guess if you look at it as "local imperialism is preferable to European superpower imperialism" it makes a little sense, but at best you could call that a very small improvement, and then the whole 'killing innocent people' thing should make them pretty unsympathetic but I guess pretty borders matter more than civilian lives to some people  .
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Jul 12, 2014 19:43
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The borders drawn by colonial powers are fake and should be destroyed. The problem is that ISIS is the one doing it.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:46
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Anti-imperialists generally think there's only one country who's imperialism matters.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:49
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Volkerball posted:Anti-imperialists generally think there's only one country who's imperialism matters. Would you consider yourself a pro-imperialist?
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Jul 12, 2014 19:53
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Volkerball posted:Anti-imperialists generally think there's only one country who's imperialism matters. This is true if we're talking about Maoist Third Worldists; it is not true as a general statement.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:02
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What should the borders look like?
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Jul 12, 2014 20:06
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Xandu posted:What should the borders look like? I think that's for the people living there to decide, not invaders, whether they're extremists from Syria or pith helmets from Europe.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:08
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Well if you're going to claim they're fake and wrong, what exactly is wrong with them?
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Jul 12, 2014 20:09
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Xandu posted:What should the borders look like? That map from V2 with IS colors all over Europe, Africa, and Asia.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:11
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Xandu posted:Well if you're going to claim they're fake and wrong, what exactly is wrong with them? Usually I think fantasy redistributions have a Kurdish state in the north, A Shia State in the east/baghdad, and then the rest is a Sunni state. Something along those lines, anyway. The Kurds almost always get their own state out of it, though.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:15
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Xandu posted:Well if you're going to claim they're fake and wrong, what exactly is wrong with them? Created for the benefit of foreign administrative and political ease rather than by local administrative and political desire? That doesn't mean another more local force redefining them is going to be better though.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:17
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Xandu posted:Well if you're going to claim they're fake and wrong, what exactly is wrong with them? The people living inside them are engaged in a three-way civil war.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:19
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Usually I think fantasy redistributions have a Kurdish state in the north, A Shia State in the east/baghdad, and then the rest is a Sunni state. Something along those lines, anyway. The Kurds almost always get their own state out of it, though. And that could definitely be done, but I don't think we can really claim there is a historical basis for doing so. For much its history, Iraq was ruled as one part of a large empire. There was an interesting split between Basra and Baghdad (and later on Mosul), but the concept of Iraq is not really new to the 20th century. edit: Kurdish separation with Sunni/Shia powersharing seems much more plausible. I don't see the Sunnis wanting to give up on Baghdad, even if they barely live there now.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:24
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MothraAttack posted:Nice burn. Speaking of self-proclaimed anti-imperialists, that reminds me of an NGO worker I know who said that she supports ISIS' destruction of colonial borders. Xandu posted:And that could definitely be done, but I don't think we can really claim there is a historical basis for doing so. For much its history, Iraq was ruled as one part of a large empire. There was an interesting split between Basra and Baghdad (and later on Mosul), but the concept of Iraq is not really new to the 20th century. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 20:25
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