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botany posted:You know what happened when they built the statue? One of the very few black newspapers at the time, the Cleveland Gazette, published an op-ed: No, gently caress you. First you don't know my background. second, from earlier in the thread Complaint Compilation posted:As someone who was pretty much raised by wolves, and has been without a home before, the grace given by strangers is the only reason I post here and make my lovely jokes, with too many smilies. I will not shut up because some pearl-clutching d&d nerds think I'm a racist. Go gently caress your own self.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:13
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Complaint Compilation posted:I think the guy's a troll, I can do that. The only troll here is you. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're a racist moron and I'm not going to engage you any further, but I'm genuinely curious if any of the non-horrible white people in the thread know what the problem is with this bolded portion here. It's certainly something you see a lot coming from your sort. Trivialising racism is bad. Also smacks of colorblind bullshit. vvv I think I got the hint now. It implies black people are aliens! Or comparable to aliens. Or something.  vvv
lozzle fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:14
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isk posted:Oh boy All terrible things but I specifically meant the "white or blue with purple spots" bit. I forgot he bolded something too, which was probably confusing. KiteAuraan posted:That really racist people usually bring up that they don't care if you're the color of a Star Wars alien and "Tt's about attitudes not color!" to excuse their racism? All the while saying really racist poo poo online, where they don't truly know who they're talking to and if it might be really offensive? Bassetking posted:I can give you three fifths of an explanation. Ha, you know depressingly the three-fifths compromise was the more progressive solution, since the plantation owners were trying to claim votes for every slave they owned. Limiting their political power, however weakly, was progress at the time.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're a racist moron and I'm not going to engage you any further, but I'm genuinely curious if any of the non-horrible white people in the thread know what the problem is with this bolded portion here. It's certainly something you see a lot coming from your sort. I'm not sure I can explain it that well, at least at the moment because I'm not feeling well, but it's like when transphobic assholes say things like "I don't care if you identify as a toaster, just <blah blah blah>". It's an absurd, stupid, demeaning comparison, directly insulting and also outright racist/transphobic while claiming to not be racist/transphobic but rather so enlightened and above-it-all. Squeegy posted:Here's what I've got https://www.washingtonpost.com/page...TEeaLSAyzRCIRMQ Fair enough. I'm admittedly not that interested in the Bernie vs Trump hypotheticals as I was back during the primaries, but yeah, I suppose people whose main issue is "not Hillary Clinton" wouldn't be opposing Bernie for that reason if he were in her situation. A lot would probably find some other reason, though.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:14
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A fun variant also got dropped upthread; "I don't need to listen to lived perspectives because with my superior brain and US Census statistics surely I can divine the real truth." e: In this case as in many it's all about subconsciously (or not) stripping the culturally-dominant, white perspective of its actual racial bias in order to insinuate it as the 'universal truth,' logically rather than culturally derived, which then ipso facto means that those who are in tune with the status quo (white men most so) can comfortably believe in the supremacy of their own critical faculties: they can't be biased because they're totally neutral and logical, you see, they'd be having the same objections to the discussion no matter what the race of the arguer because of course the strength of their objection is founded in logic and not prejudice, they're not a racist or anything  .An interesting manifestation of this syndrome that I think illustrates it rather nicely is the British Museum's long (and surprisingly successful) fight to argue that no, London is actually the best and most responsible safehouse for other culture's treasures, because only developed Westerners are capable of seeing them ~objectively~ and ~in the context of all of humanity.~ HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:15
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Roland Jones posted:I'm not sure I can explain it that well, at least at the moment because I'm not feeling well, but it's like when transphobic assholes say things like "I don't care if you identify as a toaster, just <blah blah blah>". It's an absurd, stupid, demeaning comparison, directly insulting and also outright racist/transphobic while claiming to not be racist/transphobic but rather so enlightened and above-it-all. Yes!
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Oct 31, 2016 10:16
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:All terrible things but I specifically meant the "white or blue with purple spots" bit. I forgot he bolded something too, which was probably confusing. Roland Jones posted:I'm not sure I can explain it that well, at least at the moment because I'm not feeling well, but it's like when transphobic assholes say things like "I don't care if you identify as a toaster, just <blah blah blah>". It's an absurd, stupid, demeaning comparison, directly insulting and also outright racist/transphobic while claiming to not be racist/transphobic but rather so enlightened and above-it-all. Gotcha. Thank you.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:17
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're a racist moron and I'm not going to engage you any further, but I'm genuinely curious if any of the non-horrible white people in the thread know what the problem is with this bolded portion here. It's certainly something you see a lot coming from your sort. My best guess is that it trivializes race relations by comparing real ethnicities to made-up colors. I know the "I don't care if you're white, black, or green" kind of thing comes up a lot when "I don't see color" is a topic. "White or (something ridiculous)" as others have said, too.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:17
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Squeegy posted:My best guess is that it trivializes race relations by comparing real ethnicities to made-up colors. I know the "I don't care if you're white, black, or green" kind of thing comes up a lot when "I don't see color" is a topic. "White or (something ridiculous)" as others have said, too. Yeah exactly. Tellingly it's never "I don't care if you're black or blue with purple spots." It's always white in the "normal" column and something non-human as a stand-in for the POC skin color.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:18
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Complaint Compilation posted:No, gently caress you. First you don't know my background. People wouldn't think that if you weren't constantly trivializing racism and saying stupid, uninformed poo poo. Your background doesn't matter, by the way, unless your background is that you're an AI programmed to emulate every moderate white liberal ever.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:19
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For the record I really like the Emma Goldman poem and I like the Statue of Liberty just fine, but it had never occurred to me to associate it with the end of slavery and I had no idea that was part of its history. I always associated it with (white people) immigration. Edit: Emma LAZARUS. Haha let's put some Emma Goldman up there instead, see how that goes over.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're a racist moron and I'm not going to engage you any further, but I'm genuinely curious if any of the non-horrible white people in the thread know what the problem is with this bolded portion here. It's certainly something you see a lot coming from your sort. Is it that PoC exist and people who are blue with purple spots don't, thus erasing PoC and their concerns by conflating them with something wholy imaginary?
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Oct 31, 2016 10:23
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Roland Jones posted:I'm not feeling well, but it's like when transphobic assholes say things like "I don't care if you identify as a toaster, just <blah blah blah>". I see nothing transphobic about this. Roland Jones posted:It's an absurd, stupid, demeaning comparison, directly insulting and also outright racist/transphobic while claiming to not be racist/transphobic but rather so enlightened and above-it-all. Nobody has any obligation to care about another person's gender identity unless they're given one. I find it to be a very realistic, logical, it's honestly pretty empowering for me when people don't care what my gender is. What's demeaning is when people white knight for me and blast things for being transphobic which are not at all.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:For the record I really like the Emma Goldman poem and I like the Statue of Liberty just fine, but it had never occurred to me to associate it with the end of slavery and I had no idea that was part of its history. I always associated it with (white people) immigration. In the shitstorm, someone posted https://www.nps.gov/stli/learn/historyculture/abolition.htm
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Oct 31, 2016 10:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah exactly. Tellingly it's never "I don't care if you're black or blue with purple spots." It's always white in the "normal" column and something non-human as a stand-in for the POC skin color. Hooray! Tiny Brontosaurus posted:For the record I really like the Emma Goldman poem and I like the Statue of Liberty just fine, but it had never occurred to me to associate it with the end of slavery and I had no idea that was part of its history. I always associated it with (white people) immigration. Claude McKay came through Ellis Island! 
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Oct 31, 2016 10:23
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Squeegy posted:Hooray! Ahh, star of the famous Brontosaurus household "Claude McKay Fight" between my black afrofeminist mother and white extremely communist father over whether his books were still permitted in the Brontosaurus library despite his "betrayal of the cause" or whether that was "some white nonsense."
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Oct 31, 2016 10:26
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah exactly. Tellingly it's never "I don't care if you're black or blue with purple spots." It's always white in the "normal" column and something non-human as a stand-in for the POC skin color. That makes sense, I never thought about it that way.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:26
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Ahh, star of the famous Brontosaurus household "Claude McKay Fight" between my black afrofeminist mother and white extremely communist father over whether his books were still permitted in the Brontosaurus library despite his "betrayal of the cause" or whether that was "some white nonsense."  On an unrelated note, I finished watching the Mittens documentary and now I'm able to think of him as a human being again. Someone please find the picture of him smirking smugly after scoring political points on Benghazi so I can purge.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:28
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah exactly. Tellingly it's never "I don't care if you're black or blue with purple spots." It's always white in the "normal" column and something non-human as a stand-in for the POC skin color. anecdotal, strawman.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:29
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Squeegy posted:
 Let it flow through you.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:29
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VikingofRock posted:Is it that PoC exist and people who are blue with purple spots don't, thus erasing PoC and their concerns by conflating them with something wholy imaginary? Yeah, its this. I'm noticing that line of anti-colorblind colorblindness more and more as of late. "Even if I did see race, WHICH I DON'T, I toooootaaalllyyyy respect people of fake races I made up to make myself feel better and the people of real races sitting in front of me, stifling a side eye." It's usually a box in my "trying to be the Cool White person" bingo.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:31
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:
Aaand it's gone. All is as it should be.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:32
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teen witch posted:Yeah, its this. I'm noticing that line of anti-colorblind colorblindness more and more as of late. "Even if I did see race, WHICH I DON'T, I toooootaaalllyyyy respect people of fake races I made up to make myself feel better and the people of real races sitting in front of me, stifling a side eye." But when you think about it, isn't Shakespeare just another kind of rap?
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Oct 31, 2016 10:32
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teen witch posted:It's usually a box in my "trying to be the Cool White person" bingo. This is a racist statement.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:32
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're a racist moron and I'm not going to engage you any further, but I'm genuinely curious if any of the non-horrible white people in the thread know what the problem is with this bolded portion here. It's certainly something you see a lot coming from your sort. I know you're more getting at the absurdity if "white vs purple" and the problem that creates, but there's another part of it too that I want to rant about a second: Assuming that behavior ought to change to "accommodate" the feelings of PoC only when it's known that they are present is demeaning. We all need to be decent human beings ALL of the time, and we shouldn't avoid certain kinds of talk, jokes, and stereotypes simply so that we don't offend others, we should avoid it because it's wrong. I swear a lot of people feel like the "PC Police" and overly sensitive minorities are just here to ruin their fun and take their words out of context. This is easy to see in Trump supporters, but the sentiment exists everywhere (maliciously or not!). People on an Internet forum getting butt hurt when someone points out they're using a racist trope need to stfu and listen. These people often see the racist side of America and feel as if they are looking across some sort of chasm because they aren't racist like those people. While yes, using a common racist trope (intentionally or unintentionally) on an Internet forum isn't as bad as donning a KKK robe and using racial slurs, IT IS STILL PERPETUATING RACISM. Especially after you are told by a PoC and multiple other posters that you are being racist. It is possible to strive for racial equality and still be a racist. It is possible to have nothing but good intentions and still say things that are racist. This isn't just some "racists" vs "non racists" thing. Its a deeply embedded societal problem that none of us can escape from. Rather than lash out when someone says you're being racist but you disagree, try to listen and learn. For those of us without the lived experience of a PoC, we HAVE to listen and keep pushing forward, or we aren't much better than the racists who spew hate intentionally. The next time someone says "what you are saying is racist," don't freak out and go on the defensive. Ask why and try to understand it. God these last 20+ pages of arguing have pissed me off. I have a fever and don't know how much sense that all made, but gently caress it. Queen Gnome fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:33
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Tashan Dorrsett posted:anecdotal, strawman. Tashan Dorrsett posted:This is a racist statement. Tashan Dorrsett posted:personally, i find that the only people who feel strongly enough to make a big deal about casual racism in a social context tend to lack maturity and real world experience. 
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Oct 31, 2016 10:34
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Tashan Dorrsett posted:I see nothing transphobic about this. Yeah gently caress you buddy, I'm trans and I don't appreciate being compared to a kitchen appliance. That example I used wasn't a hypothetical, it was based off a thing I actually had to deal with once, where the admin of some other community I was in heard people talking about being trans, launched into a huge rant about how anyone who thinks they're trans is fooling themselves and your gender is set, but hey, he doesn't care what you think you are, it's fine with him. Just shut the gently caress up about it. Stuff like that? Absolutely transphobic. No one compares trans people to objects (or black people to aliens) unless they're preparing to say or have already said something extremely transphobic, because they are in fact huge transphobes. (Tangent, why is it always toasters? At least two or three times I've heard someone do the "I don't care if you identify as" thing and their object of choice was always a loving toaster.) Then again your only other post in this thread is you ranting about how anyone who complains about racism is immature and not able to deal with the real world, so you're just kind of garbage in general and are apparently another one of those weirdos who comes out of nowhere to poo poo on marginalized people TB and I were discussing, so. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:34
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It's this thing known as bait.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:35
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Quoting people on my ignore list makes their words hit my eyeballs 
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Oct 31, 2016 10:35
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Okay others have covered most of what I want to with this particular shining exemplar of I asked. Some people gave me some reading material. I read. I'm done talking about racial issues.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:36
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, but:
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You fed the troll.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:37
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Ruggan posted:
Oh, no question about that. The only question is if you think you're done listening. e: funnily enough it was actually a comment with almost this exact formulation that made me first really interrogate my status in the world and how I'm perceived walking into a room--"ever notice how often white people use 'talking' to mean 'thinking?'" HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:38
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So, basically, from what we've learned Clinton has had to contend with a foreign intelligence agency and Stone just basically admitted he was colluding with Wikileaks, who was distributing their information, and the FBI director both pulled something insane, unprecedented, and hostile to her at a critical moment after already breaking with precedent to editorialize while exonerating her in July AND he tried to have his agents just get all into the Clinton Foundation because of the AP hitpiece for funsies. You know, gently caress the fact that the Trump campaign is a dumpster fire: Having to deal with all this poo poo seems like a big reason she wouldn't be up double digits.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:39
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Queen Gnome posted:Rather than lash out when someone says you're being racist but you disagree, try to listen and learn. For those of us without the lived experience of a PoC, we HAVE to listen and keep pushing forward, or we aren't much better than the racists who spew hate intentionally. I've spent 2 decades listening to racists. Sometimes when you extend a hand in kindness, they snap and rip it off. Being nice and genteel is ok, but sometimes I need to also take care of myself. Sometimes getting up and walking out of a party says a lot more than "Oh I'm sorry that your sister is dating a black man and you don't like it, go on. How does it make you feel?" I'm not going to be a doormat for those poor uneducated racists. Dylann Roof was invited into that Bible Study, treated with hospitality, and even thought for a split loving second "Maybe I shouldn't shoot these black churchgoers while they are inside a church." Instead he had a second thought of "No, gently caress that" and killed them. I can be nice, I want to be nice, but sometimes I shouldn't have to be nice.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:39
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Oh, no question about that. The only question is if you think you're done listening. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm happy to listen.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:40
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from da country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA88lEZJBdY
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Oct 31, 2016 10:40
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Night10194 posted:So, basically, from what we've learned Clinton has had to contend with a foreign intelligence agency and Stone just basically admitted he was colluding with Wikileaks, who was distributing their information, and the FBI director both pulled something insane, unprecedented, and hostile to her at a critical moment after already breaking with precedent to editorialize while exonerating her in July AND he tried to have his agents just get all into the Clinton Foundation because of the AP hitpiece for funsies.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:43
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Nessus posted:And the real funny thing is that even with this all, it doesn't look like Trump is going to win. I suppose there is the sliver of an outside chance that there will be some sudden tanking in her polls and so forth as a result of this (sorry folks, but at this point I"d rather hear you arzy than yell at GF some more) - but all of this effort, all of this violent thrashing, is - barring some actual election-throwing situation - going to fail. I hope that 10-12 years from now they release a documentary with a post-mortem on the GOP. I'd love to see some insider footage. Give me the candid hot takes.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:44
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Nessus posted:And the real funny thing is that even with this all, it doesn't look like Trump is going to win. I suppose there is the sliver of an outside chance that there will be some sudden tanking in her polls and so forth as a result of this (sorry folks, but at this point I"d rather hear you arzy than yell at GF some more) - but all of this effort, all of this violent thrashing, is - barring some actual election-throwing situation - going to fail. Still, this makes me so goddamn mad. Literal enemies foreign and domestic! This is insane.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:44
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Night10194 posted:So, basically, from what we've learned Clinton has had to contend with a foreign intelligence agency and Stone just basically admitted he was colluding with Wikileaks, who was distributing their information, and the FBI director both pulled something insane, unprecedented, and hostile to her at a critical moment after already breaking with precedent to editorialize while exonerating her in July AND he tried to have his agents just get all into the Clinton Foundation because of the AP hitpiece for funsies. It's pretty crazy, yeah. Vast right-wing conspiracy indeed; if there were any sanity or justice here there would be dire consequences for everyone involved, rather than Comey probably losing his job, Trump losing the election and being a disgrace (maybe), his team slinking off to work elsewhere, and all the politicians enabling it working to stonewall Hillary after she takes office.
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Oct 31, 2016 10:44
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