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Ammat The Ankh posted:So Echidna declared Karkat should be the Leader of the trolls. I feel like I should point out after reading a bunch that this sort of reads into the Kanaya/Karkat duo aspect that is present in Homestuck. Someone pointed out earlier that Kanaya has always sort of acted as a "parent" figure to Karkat (like a mother) whenever she interacts with him. This really isn't a surprise since it's been given that the other part of her name is "Maryam", which is a another name in varying languages for "Mary" in Christianity (also: Miriam and Maryiam, depending), who was the mother of Jesus. Given that their ancestors already sort of played out this same role (Kanaya's ancestor "raises" Karkat's ancestor, who goes on to martyrdom), it seems that the pattern is repeating in a sense, with Kanaya keeping Karkat out of danger in a motherly aspect (even though I've probably missed it in this thread [it's huge], it's probably been brought up like 30 times by now). Echidna's ruling basically ensures that Karkat is probably the next troll Jegus in some sort or another (though it really isn't apparent how). However, with all this foreshadowing I would find it hilarious if Kanaya just sort of decided to snack on Karkat anyways and completely blow this out of the water.
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Jun 5, 2015 12:34
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Esme posted:I always figured the Blood aspect was about martyrdom and self-sacrifice.
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Jun 5, 2015 14:02
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Bell_ posted:E;fb like a billion ducking times To be fair your explanation was the clearest. The fact he is a mutant LIME BLOOD is the most important factor.
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Jun 5, 2015 14:43
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Regarde Aduck posted:To be fair your explanation was the clearest. The fact he is a mutant LIME BLOOD is the most important factor. I wonder if Calliope's talk about the lime bloods was accurate or just her making stuff up for her Trollsona. I mean, we know they existed based on the Subbjuggulator's wall, but the only evidence of them being gone is Calliope and one of the 12 not being one. If the lime bloods really did have some power that resulted in them getting wiped out, maybe it was some sort of friendship/cooperation thing. It would fit with Karkat/the Sufferer, HIC would hate it, and Calliope would probably think it was just the best thing.
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Jun 5, 2015 15:14
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quote:"ship-centric aspect" Come, follow me, and I shall make you catfishers of trolls
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Jun 5, 2015 15:14
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TVs Ian posted:If the lime bloods really did have some power that resulted in them getting wiped out, maybe it was some sort of friendship/cooperation thing. It would fit with Karkat/the Sufferer, HIC would hate it, and Calliope would probably think it was just the best thing. I've seen people...somewhere...in this thread theorize that lime bloods were able to exert a calming influence on other trolls (See Karkat with his papping and shooshing.) which definitely would have had an impact on troll society, if only in limiting the psychotic outbreaks of violence among highbloods. Also there was something about sopor slime being used as a substitute for the effect they would have had. No idea how much of this is based on anything and how much is just wild theorizing though.
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Jun 5, 2015 15:34
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Random summary thoughts, please skip. Since the restart of the horses, all the plot threads have been drawing in. Instead of "oh, look, she's got a gold ribbon, what does that mean?", it's "huh, that's the same gold ribbon we saw on Prospit and in the What The Hell Is Going On Here flash, it must be important". If nobody's mentioned the Act 1 gold ribbon in act 6, then it wasn't Chekhov's gun after all. The director is pointing our gaze at the things we're supposed to notice and remember: see the entire panel devoted to where in the world is funky little rabbit. Thus the Mayor/WV is important; the White King is not. All that to say, I think most of the dead characters are gone for good. Equius, dead or alive, is critical to the endgame. Eridan, probably not. Cronus, almost certainly not. Davesprite is coming back because everybody keeps loudly insisting that he's an ex-sprite. The Dread Foreshadowings Of Doom are everywhere. Kanaya, Karkat, Dave, and possibly Dirk have outright said that they're willing to die to save others, and that check will certainly get cashed by one or more somebodies. Most of the Choices we know about tl:dr: Even if Hussie hadn't told us we were nearing the end, the dramatic structure of the story would have told us so.
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Jun 5, 2015 15:54
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I think I'd genuinely be a bit disappointed if we didn't close the book with some finality on the entire cast. Homestuck has many themes and motifs, but, primarily, is character-driven. Even if it's only double-death - Damara was saying that it was an inevitability that all the bubble ghosts would be destroyed by Lord English, but she was also a crazy bitch. Like, I hope we get finality on what happened to Aranea. Double death, some horrible fate? I even hope we see what happens to Cronus (And that it's awful).
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Jun 5, 2015 16:49
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WAR FOOT posted:I even hope we see what happens to Cronus (And that it's awful). Creamed by a bus out of nowhere like in Mean Girls.
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Jun 5, 2015 16:53
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WAR FOOT posted:I think I'd genuinely be a bit disappointed if we didn't close the book with some finality on the entire cast. Homestuck has many themes and motifs, but, primarily, is character-driven. Agreed, but I think "died in Act 5" is an appropriate finality for a minor character. Some NPCs are just there to facilitate one quest. quote:Like, I hope we get finality on what happened to Aranea. Double death, some horrible fate? Of the post-scratch trolls, Eridan, Feferi, and Nepeta are probably gone for good. Y'all's thoughts?
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Jun 5, 2015 16:59
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Mituna's sacrifice was just a reference to Sollux doing the same thing, I don't believe it's really important. Same about Cronus' bullshit backstory. What I really want to see now is Karkat's easy mode denizen.
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Jun 5, 2015 17:35
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Blackheart posted:Mituna's sacrifice was just a reference to Sollux doing the same thing, I don't believe it's really important. Same about Cronus' bullshit backstory. it's a tiny crab
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Jun 5, 2015 17:38
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AriadneThread posted:it's a tiny crab
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Jun 5, 2015 17:40
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It's a true neutral half-undead, half-eaten crab sandwich.
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Jun 5, 2015 17:46
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Zoe posted:I've seen people...somewhere...in this thread theorize that lime bloods were able to exert a calming influence on other trolls (See Karkat with his papping and shooshing.) which definitely would have had an impact on troll society, if only in limiting the psychotic outbreaks of violence among highbloods. Also there was something about sopor slime being used as a substitute for the effect they would have had. New wild theory: Limebloods aren't rare at all, and they're constantly exerting a passive psychic influence upon the trolls around them. Unfortunately highbloods have a high resistance to psychic abilities, meaning the violent nature of trolls shines through, while lowbloods are constantly kept in a calmer state. Focusing this ability is what shooshpapping is. The comic will end with Karkat shooshpapping Lord English into submission.
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Jun 5, 2015 17:47
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Zoe posted:I've seen people...somewhere...in this thread theorize that lime bloods were able to exert a calming influence on other trolls (See Karkat with his papping and shooshing.) which definitely would have had an impact on troll society, if only in limiting the psychotic outbreaks of violence among highbloods. Also there was something about sopor slime being used as a substitute for the effect they would have had. When Karkat shoosh paps Gamzee into submission the text is lime green. Well, the shooshing is at least. Pap appears to be pink (and possibly just linked with moirail relationships?). http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005990
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Jun 5, 2015 18:01
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Karkat is right: he sucks at being a leader. He has good intentions, but he doesn't think things through and doesn't have the skills or emotional maturity needed to handle serious problems. Leadership is to Karkat as art is to Caliborn. If he wants to ever get good at it he going to need LOTS of practice, practice he didn't get on the metorite and that he's not getting now while he's lying unconscious on the ground. Kanaya didn't make the right choice, she forced him to do what she thought was best rather than trying to effectively explain her point of view and letting him make his own decisions, something he'd have to do a lot if he ever became a real leader. Kanaya suceed in accomplishing the goal Echidna gave her, but she failed the real test: she prevented Karkat from growing.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:12
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Statements like that are why you're not our leader.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:13
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Karkat is right: he sucks at being a leader. You seem to forget- poo poo is going DOWN in the dream bubbles, and all Kanaya did was take Karkat from some where he could die while trying to be important, to some where he cannot die while being important. Never underestimate the bullshit you can get up to while asleep. Remember John got his Retcon bullshit powers while taking a stone cold nap.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:22
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Kanaya suceed in accomplishing the goal Echidna gave her, but she failed the real test: she prevented Karkat from growing. growing into a corpse
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Jun 5, 2015 18:31
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i grow into my future role as a corpse a little more every day
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Jun 5, 2015 18:49
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I'm going to have to agree that because Karkat's rocky relationship with being a leader and his many failures is a big part of his character, he necessarily fails at it - the same way most of the trolls struggle to live up to their ancestors. In most stories, that'd be to serve as build-up to some final leader-y challenge where he's grown and can now take it on, but since this is Homestuck who knows. He certainly has the potential and drive to lead, though. Vriska can exhaust everyone into just giving up and going with her plan, but nobody's listening to her strategy chat and saying "long-winded statements like that are why you're our leader." Looking back it's a little weird Feferi never seemed to make any attempt to lead the group, and basically nobody deferred to her imperial-ness. I think she suggested that once the game started that was the end to the old hemospectrum hierarchy, but considering leadership was very much in her blood she really took the back seat and didn't even seem to want to take charge. To be honest I'm not sure what Feferi wanted at all except maybe snuggling with Sollux and for Eridan to leave her alone.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:57
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Dolash posted:I'm going to have to agree that because Karkat's rocky relationship with being a leader and his many failures is a big part of his character, he necessarily fails at it - the same way most of the trolls struggle to live up to their ancestors. In most stories, that'd be to serve as build-up to some final leader-y challenge where he's grown and can now take it on, but since this is Homestuck who knows. in the upcoming 2020 post-homestuck adventure AlterniaBound HD we'll get to see the complete 612 hour game session and the full span of Feferi's character arc Nepeta will remain a side-character with her stalker-crush on Karkat treated as a running gag
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Jun 5, 2015 19:14
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feferi never made an attempt to lead because her primary philosophy, aside from being pretty condescending, was "everything will work out somehow"
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Jun 5, 2015 19:20
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paranoid randroid posted:It's a true neutral half-undead, half-eaten crab sandwich. Y'all talk about Zack Morrison like he's king poo poo of Paradox Space gently caress mountain but Rennie Kingsley's art is why I'm buying the book.
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Jun 5, 2015 19:27
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Slime posted:New wild theory: Limebloods aren't rare at all, and they're constantly exerting a passive psychic influence upon the trolls around them. Unfortunately highbloods have a high resistance to psychic abilities, meaning the violent nature of trolls shines through, while lowbloods are constantly kept in a calmer state. Focusing this ability is what shooshpapping is. It was implied that trolls aren't actually that violent by nature, though.
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Jun 5, 2015 20:43
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paranoid randroid posted:feferi never made an attempt to lead because her primary philosophy, aside from being pretty condescending, was "everything will work out somehow" And she explicitly abdicated her throne.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:It's a crabcake with Old Bay aioli. The old bay is what made it horrific enough to be a final boss instead of a meal.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:21
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Pretty sure Karkat's Blood aspect is about humanity/kinship not so much in a leadership stance, but more in like an "understanding" sense. He's good at understanding people and seeing through the bullshit facades they put up, and is sensitive and caring enough to generally want to help people. He's just so insecure about his weaknesses that he starts to flounder the moment. His conversation with Terezi in the Ancestors' dream bubble is probably the biggest "this is why he's their leader" moment though.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:32
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curiousTerminal posted:The old bay is what made it horrific enough to be a final boss instead of a meal. Homestuck's idea of leadership is not the military idea. A leader in Homestuck doesn't give orders (Vriska! Aranea!) but motivates individuals to be their best selves. This is hammered in over and over again. Aranea and Vriska solve problems by using other people as tools or by ignoring them entirely. That's why they fail. Obviously, this is not the only successful leadership style, but it's the one Homestuck endorses. It isn't an accident that all three anointed leaders are among the sweetest-natured people in their groups; Kanaya and Dirk call that out explicitly.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:39
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Homestuck's idea of leadership is not the military idea. A leader in Homestuck doesn't give orders (Vriska! Aranea!) Wait, if she's expecting Karkat to be the leader of the trolls that means Vriska is going to die, right?
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Jun 5, 2015 22:22
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Grapplejack posted:Wait, if she's expecting Karkat to be the leader of the trolls that means Vriska is going to die, right? I'm not sure how that follows?
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Jun 5, 2015 22:41
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Grapplejack posted:Wait, if she's expecting Karkat to be the leader of the trolls that means Vriska is going to die, right? Vriska handed off to John when she bailed out to go hang in the dream bubbles. I believe what was being suggested is that Karkat will lead the troll race in the new universe.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:50
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I'm not sure how that follows? I mean, it's vriska. There's no way she would let Karkat of all people lead the trolls when she is still alive and can do so.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:56
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I dont think she has any desire to lead a whole society. Neither does Karkat probably, but hey.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:59
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Grapplejack posted:I mean, it's vriska. There's no way she would let Karkat of all people lead the trolls when she is still alive and can do so.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:09
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Grapplejack posted:I mean, it's vriska. There's no way she would let Karkat of all people lead the trolls when she is still alive and can do so.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:09
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Grapplejack posted:I mean, it's vriska. There's no way she would let Karkat of all people lead the trolls when she is still alive and can do so. Didn't she allow exactly that in their initial session, though?
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Jun 5, 2015 23:47
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WAR FOOT posted:Didn't she allow exactly that in their initial session, though? Didn't she lead blue team? Jesus, maybe I should 'reread hivebound again, I don't remember anything from it.
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Jun 6, 2015 00:12
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Grapplejack posted:Didn't she lead blue team? Equius kicked her out and she had to go be on the team full of blind girls and cripples and cranky iiiiiiiimbeciles
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Jun 6, 2015 00:14
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