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Grand Fromage posted:Really? The captain's chair and the area behind it, plus that turbolift door off to the side all look exactly like the Defiant to me. Weird they'd build it from scratch but have it laid out so similarly, I'd think it'd save time to redress. But maybe it would've been so much work to change the set that building a new one wasn't any more trouble. Eh, it'd be a lot of work to widen, and the NX has that whole sunken area that the Defiant bridge wouldn't have been built for. Plus the Defiant had already been redressed for a bunch of alien rooms in Voyager. Also, it wasn't built for HD, whereas the NX one had to look better in the small details. Also, the NX bridge was built especially so that they could pull any wall out in bits easily and shoot from any angles. And it had to cater for a lot of computer displays - there were something like 80 active animated screens on that bridge. The actual NX bridge set was one of the most expensive sets they ever did. HorseLord posted:
I've been thinking about how you'd update it properly and on its own terms ever since disco did their one, and I really wish I could 3D model. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 21:08
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That makes sense. They just seemed so dedicated to reusing sets for literally decades like that TOS movie bridge that I expected anything that looks like a redress probably is.
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Aug 15, 2019 21:11
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MikeJF posted:I've been thinking about how you'd update it properly and on its own terms ever since disco did their one, and I really wish I could 3D model. I'm working on that actually, on and off. The problem for me is that the helm and nav stations of the original show is very small and crude, it was thrown together out of scrap for the cage. When you look at all the controls and readouts just for steering and throttle control it's not enough space, nevermind all the dozens of other controls it must have. So I'm trying to find the right balance of being a glass cockpit and having physical controls. It's critical for me because I want to build at least that station in real life for flight sim purposes. Once I've got the helm layed out, it decides the size of the whole bridge, and then I'll have something to show. One thing I'm certain of is that the TOS design is much better than we ever got to see. It really needed a space odyssey amount of budget to do properly, with all those overhead monitors and such. Discovery really made me roll my eyes with it's Doom 3 bullshit. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 21:23
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MikeJF posted:Eh, it'd be a lot of work to widen, and the NX has that whole sunken area that the Defiant bridge wouldn't have been built for. Plus the Defiant had already been redressed for a bunch of alien rooms in Voyager. Also, it wasn't built for HD, whereas the NX one had to look better in the small details. Also, the NX bridge was built especially so that they could pull any wall out in bits easily and shoot from any angles. And it had to cater for a lot of computer displays - there were something like 80 active animated screens on that bridge. Surely the Defiant bridge (or any set for that matter) was built to be able to do that too?
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Aug 15, 2019 22:23
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HorseLord posted:He's probably on the couch at home like "Computer, beam me to my job when someone is about to enter the room" He secretly rigged a holo-O'Brien. He doesn't actually go to work at all.
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Aug 15, 2019 23:10
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Sad King Billy posted:I like how Keogh smacked down Dax when she asked if he had evacuated nonessential personnel. That's just kind of unfortunately common with the TNG/DS9-era combat sequences. I imagine a lot of it came down to how much it cost to doing phaser and photon torpedo effects, although there's a part of me that wonders if The Survivors led to a note from Berman telling the VFX guys to tone it down. It's also easy enough to imagine the torpedo fire all happened off-screen. I suspect that at some point during the series the writers realized "wait, we may have made these guys too strong" especially since that first fight pretty much had phaser fire practically bouncing off the attack bugs. Wasn't the only bug that blew up the one that rammed Odyssey?
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Aug 16, 2019 00:35
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The Jem'Hadar ships' weapons passed right through Starfleet shields. It's mentioned in the battle and again in The Search, part of the reason Sisko wanted the Defiant was because it was armored to take hits (presumably because the Borg also more or less ignore shields). And then at some point the genius engineers figure out how to make shields work against them. So with its shields ineffective, I'd compare the Odyssey's final battle to the Enterprise-D's except the three Jem'Hadar attack ships were vastly superior to one obsolete bird of prey.
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Aug 16, 2019 00:57
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And instead of retconning it they actually mentioned later that Starfleet figured out how to alter shields to work against Dominion weapons, which I appreciated.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:00
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I happened to watch the episode in question today and I've always appreciated watching the Odyssey making that slow turn to leave. One of the few times that the Galaxy class ships ever looked truly massive.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:09
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MikeJF posted:The built a model and did some initial test footage. Every drat decision about the production of Voyager was the absolute worst.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:51
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CaveGrinch posted:Every drat decision about the production of Voyager was the absolute worst. Kate Mulgrew is the exception that proves the rule. "Hey! We need a cool bad boy pilot. What about the guy from that Masters of the Universe movie?"
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Aug 16, 2019 02:02
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Grand Fromage posted:And instead of retconning it they actually mentioned later that Starfleet figured out how to alter shields to work against Dominion weapons, which I appreciated. And making it a surprise to The Dominion who seem to have poo poo intelligence even with all those changelings everywhere.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:04
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I'm on Who Watches The Watchers (the one where Leland Palmer and his proto-Vulcans think The Picard is a god). I always like first contact episodes where the crew put on funny makeup and pretend to be aliens, and I love it when Star Trek is blatant atheist propaganda, so this has always been one of my favourites.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:06
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I got thinking about the Enterprise and her captains and read up on Robert April on Memory Alpha. Apparently Bob Orci wanted to make a rogue version of him the villain for Into Darkness? What the gently caress? At least with Discovery they didn't poo poo all over him like that.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:10
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On to the weird episode with the bereaved kid (The Bonding). You can really see Wesley's spots through his makeup in HD.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:05
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Surely the Defiant bridge (or any set for that matter) was built to be able to do that too? Yeah, I mean the NX bridge was a lot more versatile in access.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:10
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Zurui posted:Kate Mulgrew is the exception that proves the rule. I agree. The way her character was written notwithstanding, she is certainly the best thing about the show. I’d also argue Jeri Ryan is as well, despite their best efforts to just make her a sex object.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:27
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The only thing wrong with the aeroshuttle is the name
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Aug 16, 2019 04:08
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CaveGrinch posted:I agree. The way her character was written notwithstanding, she is certainly the best thing about the show. I'm stoked for more Seven. I always wanted her to meet Picard back when Voyager was running but I knew there was no way they were gonna have the bread to get Stewart in a guest spot.
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Aug 16, 2019 04:36
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Voyager wouldn't even be watchable at all without Mulgrew (except maybe some Doctor-centric eps) before they brought on Jeri Ryan, and even then wouldn't be nearly as good without the Janeway/Seven dynamic. Mulgrew deserves a lot of credit in a multitude of ways.
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Aug 16, 2019 04:37
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Voyager wouldn't even be watchable at all without Mulgrew (except maybe some Doctor-centric eps) before they brought on Jeri Ryan, and even then wouldn't be nearly as good without the Janeway/Seven dynamic. Mulgrew deserves a lot of credit in a multitude of ways. Somewhere out there is a parallel universe where they stuck with Genevieve Bujold as Janeway instead of replacing her after two days of shooting. I bet it's a very different show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0
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Aug 16, 2019 04:56
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Do they talk about replacing her at all in the Fifty Year Mission? I mean, her performance is flat as hell and she has no charisma in the role. It's like your retired grandmother is trying to play as a starship captain.
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Aug 16, 2019 05:22
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Kate Mulgrew is awesome, and I'd be totally down for her reappearing in Picard if she played Janeway like Red from OITNB as a grizzled old officer who's had enough of everyones poo poo.Powered Descent posted:Somewhere out there is a parallel universe where they stuck with Genevieve Bujold as Janeway instead of replacing her after two days of shooting. I bet it's a very different show. In that universe we might actually have ended up with an awesome show. There's no way Bujold would have stuck around for seven years. I imagine a version of the show where she quit after the first season and so they had to kill Janeway off. Such a massive cast change would make them move away from the whole reset button aspect of the show and it ends up with DS9 style serialization. edit: The big downside is that a version of Voyager that does the premise justice might mean that Ron Moore never gets the fire lit under him that led to BSG.
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Aug 16, 2019 05:23
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Zurui posted:Do they talk about replacing her at all in the Fifty Year Mission? I mean, her performance is flat as hell and she has no charisma in the role. It's like your retired grandmother is trying to play as a starship captain. Briefly. She was completely overwhelmed by the workload of a tv production and thought it would be more akin to film production, so after the first week (day?) she asked Berman (or Piller/Braga?) if she could just bail and they quickly agreed and recast.
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Aug 16, 2019 05:51
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I have been slowly showing my girlfriend Deep Space Nine, as she has never seen it before. She loved TNG but was never considered a 'trekkie', but I have shown her curated "good parts" episodes like Duet and Cardassians and such of S1-S3. I showed her Way of the Warrior, and she was super down with Worf being on the show. Then we've slowly gotten to By Inferno's Light, and she was happy to see Martok return, as she was sad to see him go in the beginning of S5 because he was a changing. (Seriously though, why did that Changling give up his disguise in front of all of the Klingons so easily in that episode????) We just watched Soldiers for the Empire, and my girlfriend's response was "drat, Martok is awesome. I hope he's around for more of the series now!" Oh man. I'm excited for her. 
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Aug 16, 2019 06:05
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marktheando posted:On to the weird episode with the bereaved kid (The Bonding). You can really see Wesley's spots through his makeup in HD.  yeah, the HD does him no favors there.
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Aug 16, 2019 06:13
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Senor Tron posted:edit: The big downside is that a version of Voyager that does the premise justice might mean that Ron Moore never gets the fire lit under him that led to BSG. Yeah, but while BSG is mostly really good, it also prevents every Sci-Fi show after it trying to be always super serious, with no goofy fun.
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Aug 16, 2019 13:36
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Yeah, but while BSG is mostly really good, it also prevents every Sci-Fi show after it trying to be always super serious, with no goofy fun. Eh, TV was heading that way anyway.
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Aug 16, 2019 13:43
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The Golden Gael posted:I got thinking about the Enterprise and her captains and read up on Robert April on Memory Alpha. Apparently Bob Orci wanted to make a rogue version of him the villain for Into Darkness? What the gently caress? It was Pike in Discovery, April was before him. Also the first captain.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:20
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My hot take of the day is that BSG even ruined Stargate by causing Stargate Universe. BSG was a good show but I wish other shows didn't try to copy it right after.
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Aug 16, 2019 18:14
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It wasn't Battlestar Galactica's fault for being what it was, the system that drives everything else to copy what is financially successful regardless of any creative input is to blame
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Aug 16, 2019 18:48
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I've never actually seen BSG, but the (sadly out of print) board game is one of the most fun games I've ever played.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:16
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I liked Stargate Universe. Even if it did basically copy as much as possible from BSG, right down to the weird acting scientist.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:24
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I kind of lost touch with the television sci-fi world after BSG. What subsequent shows tried to copy it?
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Aug 16, 2019 19:30
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I've never actually seen BSG, but the (sadly out of print) board game is one of the most fun games I've ever played. I haven't played it, but I've heard enough people raving about it I'm kinda surprised they haven't reworked it into a non-licenced board game.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:36
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MikeJF posted:I haven't played it, but I've heard enough people raving about it I'm kinda surprised they haven't reworked it into a non-licenced board game. That's exactly what I thought, too. Without knowing anything about the show, we were told "you are on essentially the Last Human Ship on a long journey to a safe planet, being chased by evil robots. Also one of you is secretly an evil robot perfectly disguised as a human." You're basically running around the big main ship keeping it fixed etc. and sometimes shooting robots, while whoever is the Disguised Robot has to subtly sabotage things without anyone else figuring out what's going on. If you think someone's a robot you can vote to throw them out the airlock. The base copy goes for several hundred dollars on eBay, it's dumb.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:42
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Snow Cone Capone posted:That's exactly what I thought, too. Without knowing anything about the show, we were told "you are on essentially the Last Human Ship on a long journey to a safe planet, being chased by evil robots. Also one of you is secretly an evil robot perfectly disguised as a human." You're basically running around the big main ship keeping it fixed etc. and sometimes shooting robots, while whoever is the Disguised Robot has to subtly sabotage things without anyone else figuring out what's going on. If you think someone's a robot you can vote to throw them out the airlock. Sounds like similar mechanics to the The Thing game Mondo did a few years back.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:45
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Nullsmack posted:My hot take of the day is that BSG even ruined Stargate by causing Stargate Universe. That's not a hot take, that's just an accurate description of history.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:47
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Snow Cone Capone posted:The base copy goes for several hundred dollars on eBay, it's dumb. This is very interesting information to me, as I eye the box that I have opened but never played...
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Aug 16, 2019 19:49
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Today I learned that cats evolved from iguanas and some humans evolved from spiders.MikeJF posted:I haven't played it, but I've heard enough people raving about it I'm kinda surprised they haven't reworked it into a non-licenced board game. Board games don't often do that kind of remake with all the copyrights shaved off. What normally happens is the ideas from within the board game get released into the atmosphere and there's a ton of board games floating about with the same basic ideas, innovating upon them in their own ways. That sort of secret traitor game is all over the place these days, from games that are just about sussing out the traitors like Secret Hitler, Two Rooms and a Boom, Resistance, and Werewolf, to games where you similarly have to accomplish tasks while the traitors try to secretly or through incompetence work against you, like Dead of Winter, Hail Hydra, or Shadows over Camelot.
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