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Wouldn't that be a for-cause eviction? Those aren't restricted. Or building renovation if it was that much damage.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:45
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Christoph posted:I'm not sure what you're saying. Excessive damage feels like it would be cause, but is there a strict definition currently, or a new/amended definition in this bill? EDIT: Here are some examples, and it sounds like you could have them evicted with 24 hours notice for serious poo poo. Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 20:46
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Christoph posted:I'm not sure what you're saying. That sounds like the kind of thing that would be cause for eviction... unless you didn’t find out until they moved out or the catastrophic damage occurred... in which case why would you have considered a no cause eviction? Landlords have plenty of options. Boo boo if they have to work a little bit harder to get rid of a tenant they dislike.
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Feb 22, 2019 20:49
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Solkanar512 posted:Thanks for that! Yeah, or alternately "utility charges". Did the cost of water and garbage actually go up commensurate with the monthly bump? I have no way to know! 
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Feb 22, 2019 21:06
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Christoph posted:I'm not sure what you're saying. Maybe running a small business isn't right for her then. It isn't for everybody.
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Feb 22, 2019 21:18
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:Maybe running a small business isn't right for her then. It isn't for everybody. That's condescending. It's only for people with good luck? It's only for people wealthy enough to absorb unexpected catastrophic costs? xrunner posted:That sounds like the kind of thing that would be cause for eviction... unless you didn’t find out until they moved out or the catastrophic damage occurred... in which case why would you have considered a no cause eviction? You don't understand that "no-cause eviction" is a loaded term that doesn't actually mean evicting someone for no cause. "No cause eviction" is when a rental contract expires and the tenant wants to renew the lease but the landlord doesn't. It's the expiration of a contract. Someone did their homework and took a cue from the conservatives and crafted that euphemism. If the damage-prone tenants wanted to renew their lease, in a situation where "no-cause eviction" isn't legal, she'd have to renew the lease and then learn about and begin the eviction process (if it was even applicable), and then evict them. As opposed to, you know, letting the contract expire.
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Feb 22, 2019 21:34
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Christoph posted:That's condescending. It's only for people with good luck? It's only for people wealthy enough to absorb unexpected catastrophic costs? well, yeah? I mean, what's the restaurant supposed to do if it unexpectedly burns down? lots of them close after that. capitalism sucks dude. not sure why small time landlords should get a break other small businesses don't. it's super weird to me how being a landlord is often presented as a small business where you should be able to accept zero risk in exchange for regular revenue. like, I get not everybody has high margins or extra cash laying around but show me a small business sector where that isn't just as true. Teabag Dome Scandal fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 21:54
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Christoph posted:If the damage-prone tenants wanted to renew their lease, in a situation where "no-cause eviction" isn't legal, she'd have to renew the lease and then learn about and begin the eviction process (if it was even applicable), and then evict them. As opposed to, you know, letting the contract expire.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:03
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:well, yeah? I mean, what's the restaurant supposed to do if it unexpectedly burns down? lots of them close after that. capitalism sucks dude. not sure why small time landlords should get a break other small businesses don't. What break exactly are you referring to? twodot posted:Why not for-cause evict them at the time the damage was done instead of waiting for a lease to expire? Like if a tenant is such sufficiently bad that it's reasonable for a landlord to say "No I hate your money go away", that should just be a for-cause eviction. If landlords find doing for-cause evictions annoying, they get to shut up and take it. She let the lease expire and they left. The damage and lease expiration coincided. I'm saying, again, that if they wanted to continue to rent, and if the no-cause eviction law were in place, she'd be legally obligated to renew prior to evicting. It would not be impossible, it would probably not destroy her business, but it would be harder for a small landlord to pull off than a large one. A large company would have a structure in place for evictions, a legal team, etc. And that's my point. I'm not saying the business is impossible and landlords have it oh-so hard and that all landlords should be insulated by thick impenetrable laws. I'm saying these laws are crafted in such a way that small businesses will feel it far more than the big ones. That's it y'all.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:21
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Christoph posted:That's condescending. It's only for people with good luck? It's only for people wealthy enough to absorb unexpected catastrophic costs? Dude, read the link I posted. Serious damage by the tenant (or their pet) is grounds for a 24 Unconditional Quit Notice. Massive water damage is clearly serious damage to the unit.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:23
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Christoph posted:What break exactly are you referring to?
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Feb 22, 2019 22:27
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Solkanar512 posted:Dude, read the link I posted. Serious damage by the tenant (or their pet) is grounds for a 24 Unconditional Quit Notice. Massive water damage is clearly serious damage to the unit. Ah but have you considered his counterpoint of “that would take effort...”
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Feb 22, 2019 22:29
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Christoph posted:What break exactly are you referring to? see my edit. you want to be able to assume zero risk. small businesses are less able to absorb unexpected costs. this is not unique to being a landlord. if you don't want to be held to the same standard as larger companies, don't start a small business. these are the same complaints small business owners make about things like having to offer health care, or higher wages. larger companies are able to absorb this easier than smaller ones. you don't get to opt out of regulations to protect customers or employees just because you're smaller.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:30
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:see my edit. you want to be able to assume zero risk. small businesses are less able to absorb unexpected costs. this is not unique to being a landlord. if you don't want to be held to the same standard as larger companies, don't start a small business. these are the same complaints small business owners make about things like having to offer health care, or higher wages. larger companies are able to absorb this easier than smaller ones. you don't get to opt out of regulations to protect customers or employees just because you're smaller. The problem with landlords is, in my experience, they get into it expecting money for no work. They're just going to sink in some capital up front and sit back and collect rent. Unlike any other business they don't consider hmm I might have expenses that cut into my profit margin, I might have to deal with my tenants, I might have bad tenants who gently caress things up and cause me losses.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:40
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The tenants didn't cause the leak, they just didn't communicate about it, so I doubt they'd be eligible for for-cause eviction.Teabag Dome Scandal posted:see my edit. you want to be able to assume zero risk. Point to where I said that.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:42
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Christoph posted:The tenants didn't cause the leak, they just didn't communicate about it, so I doubt they'd be eligible for for-cause eviction.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:45
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It's me, the person concerned about the fate of landlords.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:47
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xrunner posted:Ah but have you considered his counterpoint of “that would take effort...” A little bit of effort and sometimes the 3k worth of legal fees my mom ended up paying. Tenants can cause huge headaches when they want to, even if the landlord is legally in the right the whole time. My mom had a lady who just stopped paying rent. And then refused to move out, and used her disability as an excuse that my mom was an abusive landlord when the sheriff showed up. The eventual ruling that my mother was right to evict this lady for non-payment was dampened by finding out that this woman had spent most of her liquid cash on the lawyer to fight my mom. She couldn't pay poo poo to cover legal fees, and it's real hard to get somebody's disability check garnished. Insurance covered some of it, but being right ain't cheap. These things can pop up with or without that language, and I think that it's overall a good addition... but that doesn't mean it's without complications. //fake edit (More background for those interested, this lady basically ran a scam where she'd move in, pay the deposit, pay for a few months, and then stop. Then she'd try to blackmail the landlord for a grand in a to get her to move out without a fight and use that to pay the deposit on the next place. What she was asking was less than the cost of getting a lawyer involved. They found like 5 other places she'd done it to, but none of them would say anything officially. Unfortunately for this lady, my mom re-married rich, and is incredibly stubborn to the point of spending several thousand dollars to prove that she's right.)
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Feb 22, 2019 22:50
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"But the police found a bunch of murdered children's bodies in the basement, and the tenant was putting heads on pikes in the front yard, and had several plastic flamingos even though they were against the HOA!" "Couldn't you just evict them?" "Well... I mean, they paid me on time, and they were quiet... barely ever called for any sort of maintenance, didn't complain when we raised the rent... Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a good tenant out there?!" EDIT: Relentless posted:A little bit of effort and sometimes the 3k worth of legal fees my mom ended up paying. Yeah... I definitely read this (especially the bolded) and think "your poor mother, forced to evict the lady on disability..."
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Feb 22, 2019 22:52
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Christoph posted:The tenants didn't cause the leak, they just didn't communicate about it, so I doubt they'd be eligible for for-cause eviction. How did you find out about it? Was it super noticeable before it had a catostrophic event? Were you taking advantage of the ability to periodically, with proper notice, inspect the property to identify these types of issues, or were you banking on "I can sit back and the tenant will let me know if anything is wrong"? All I'm seeing is "but.... but.... but.... effort...."
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Feb 22, 2019 22:52
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Relentless posted:A little bit of effort and sometimes the 3k worth of legal fees my mom ended up paying. How would the availability of no-cause eviction have changed anything about this situation at all?
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Feb 22, 2019 22:53
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Peachfart posted:It's me, the person concerned about the fate of landlords. I am very concerned about the fate of landlords like where we're going to put them once we round them up and confiscate and redistribute all their private property
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Feb 22, 2019 22:54
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And let me just say that I generally think rent control is a bad idea; it's a non-means-tested system, that primarily benefits old people (frequently old, rich people), and prevents people from moving even when they really, really should (like when they're driving by themselves in their car for over two hours a day back and forth to work).
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Feb 22, 2019 22:55
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Christoph posted:The tenants didn't cause the leak, they just didn't communicate about it, so I doubt they'd be eligible for for-cause eviction. Tenants still have a responsibility to prevent poo poo from getting worse, in this case, by telling the landlord.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:55
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Isn't it weird that people wouldn't report problems with a property when reporting problems with a property can piss landlords off enough to evict you on principle for complaining too much
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Feb 22, 2019 22:56
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Relentless posted:get somebody's disability check garnished gently caress that poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:57
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Reene posted:I am very concerned about the fate of landlords Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
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Feb 22, 2019 23:00
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lmao ah yes, poor rich people, forced to litigate against people who are literally disabled and surviving on the pittance that is disability payments gently caress you and your mother, if it wasn't absolutely clear.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:01
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xrunner posted:How would the availability of no-cause eviction have changed anything about this situation at all? End of contract evictions are generally way easier than for-cause. Thanatosian posted:Yeah... I definitely read this (especially the bolded) and think "your poor mother, forced to evict the lady on disability..." She spent more money on her lawyer than the 4 months of back rent she owed my mother. She pulled the same move on at least 5 other landlords for at least a grand each. There were pretty clearly some mental illness issues, but that's not commendable behavior. Shifty Nipples posted:gently caress that poo poo. It wasn't even attempted. She just ate the legal costs that insurance didn't cover and moved on.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:01
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Thanatosian posted:Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? how will the poor landlords survive actually having to work
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Feb 22, 2019 23:03
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Relentless posted:She spent more money on her lawyer than the 4 months of back rent she owed my mother. 
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Feb 22, 2019 23:05
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Reene posted:lmao ah yes, poor rich people, forced to litigate against people who are literally disabled and surviving on the pittance that is disability payments I'll try to find the letter next time I go to visit, but this lady wrote a letter saying she wouldn't move out unless she was given 2k in cash. Which would have been cheaper than the legal fees in the long run, but way to defend blackmail?
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Feb 22, 2019 23:06
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xrunner posted:How did you find out about it? Was it super noticeable before it had a catostrophic event? Were you taking advantage of the ability to periodically, with proper notice, inspect the property to identify these types of issues, or were you banking on "I can sit back and the tenant will let me know if anything is wrong"? I was in prison when it happened. Remember, my significant other is the landlord. The effort of reading was too much? Reene posted:how will the poor landlords survive actually having to work She works full time. That's how she was able to get a loan to buy property. Relentless posted:End of contract evictions are generally way easier than for-cause. It's also much less acrimonious. The guys in my anecdote were friendly dudes, just total space cases, and an eviction in their rental history could gently caress them over majorly in the future.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:09
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Christoph posted:She works full time. That's how she was able to get a loan to buy property. Maybe she should have just bought property for herself then instead of trying to break into the market of being a parasite.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:11
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Christoph posted:It's also much less acrimonious. The guys in my anecdote were friendly dudes, just total space cases, and an eviction in their rental history could gently caress them over majorly in the future.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:13
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Relentless posted:End of contract evictions are generally way easier than for-cause. It's also a lot easier to dispose of industrial waste in a river. It's a lot easier to get a better view by cutting down a tree than going through all the permits. It's a lot easier to do a whole lot of things casually if you don't care about the aggregate negative effects. Christoph posted:I was in prison when it happened. Remember, my significant other is the landlord. The effort of reading was too much? Okay so you weren't there and you don't have all the information but you know for sure that there was no other procedure than a no-cause eviction. Further, yeah, an eviction will really mess up rental history, and most people know that. I would bet that most people, if told "hey I have cause for eviction I'm going to start the process unless you decide to move on your own or something" are going to find their tenant decides to leave anyway. And if you don't have cause for eviction, you just don't like your tenant? Tough poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:20
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xrunner posted:The problem with landlords is, in my experience, they get into it expecting money for no work. They're just going to sink in some capital up front and sit back and collect rent. Unlike any other business they don't consider hmm I might have expenses that cut into my profit margin, I might have to deal with my tenants, I might have bad tenants who gently caress things up and cause me losses. its weird right? people have extra property laying around (lol) and think the most effort they should have to put into it is posting a craigslist ad. Christoph posted:The tenants didn't cause the leak, they just didn't communicate about it, so I doubt they'd be eligible for for-cause eviction. you're right, you didn't specifically say you wanted to assume zero risk. i simply inferred that from you complaining about lovely tenants that hosed a bunch of poo poo up due to an absent landlord and how much more burdensome it will be to properly manage your business with these new protections for tenants. how about this, your SO is a lovely landlord that doesn't take proper care of her business due to inexperience and lack of attention. hopefully you chalk this up to a learning experience like every other business does when they gently caress up. sorry if that sounds condescending. hopefully the loan she took out to buy the property doesn't require owner occupancy.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:24
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:its weird right? people have extra property laying around (lol) and think the most effort they should have to put into it is posting a craigslist ad. Absent? She lives like 15 minutes away but tries not to disturb tenants. The origin of the problem was an improperly repaired roof because Portland contractors suck balls. That was part of the money put in. It's not a slum. The renters weren't poor, they were (ironically) hydroelectric engineers. And it was the first place she bought, so yeah. Lessons were indeed learned. xrunner posted:Okay so you weren't there and you don't have all the information but you know for sure that there was no other procedure than a no-cause eviction. It's preferable to threaten people with eviction rather than tell them you're not renewing their lease?
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Feb 22, 2019 23:41
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Haha at people crying, "Oh boo hoo rich lady," when the tenant in question was LITERALLY SCAMMING HER. Also, Relentless, next time you see your mom, thank her for bailing me out of jail that one time. The property managers who I rent from inspect my property 3 months after move in and every 6 after that. The primary reason was, OMG, to check for leaky pipes and other maintenance issues that can mushroom into complete fuckshows if unattended. You can't trust people to notice on their own. I didn't notice water was getting behind my tiles at a previous apartment, and it was so bad I had to shower at my parents' house for 2 months while it was under repairs. Fortunately, my landlord noticed it on an inspection. Which he did regularly. Because that's his job as a landlord. To notice things that need fixing and get them fixed.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:42
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Haha at people crying, "Oh boo hoo rich lady," when the tenant in question was LITERALLY SCAMMING HER. The poor scamming the rich is economic justice and should be celebrated imo.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:48
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