|
Motronic posted:The biggest issues I'm seeing now that we have more context is that: Yeah. There are situations in which accepting a counter is less risky than usual. This is the opposite of that. The OP's situation is a checklist with every red flag item checked off. It's straight from the textbook. I will be extremely surprised if OP is still there in a year.
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 17:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:53 |
|
|
quote:- The company has just been acquired. This is a chaotic time when people are empire building and trying to find their places, especially in middle and upper management. You don't know where this skip level is going to end up and how much juice they will have when the music stops. The offer is from my old skip level - and his organization has already been re-arranged and he's had a title change. I think he's settled for atleast the next ~12 months, which is the timeframe in which I would be re-evaluating anyway. The other people he's involved in the counter-offer are the new director of engineering, who is the old company's COO and the old company's CEO, who I have no idea what he does. quote:The more out of the ordinary counters are, the higher risk. quote:This is a common element of counter offers. What specific thing you're doing day to day isn't necessarily the big deal for them (it could be, but doesn't have to be)--it's your institutional knowledge. quote:Lots of other really excellent points Okay y'all. Thanks very much. I think I'm a fair bit less likely to do the dumb thing. Thank you for being the anti-hype crew that I think I needed right now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
I think it's more like: short answer: don't ever take counter offers long answer: carefully consider every aspect of your office culture and market environment and weigh the cost/benefit/expectations of either outcome (and then probably still don't take the counter) My office culture is 1000% built around counter offers because we're all a bunch of cutthroat consultants and it's an expected function. They tell you this in orientation, and they repeat it at all levels of career development. You don't like your comp? Go get a better offer then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 17:20
|
|
|
I think you'll know more about if a counter offer is a good deal or not than a bunch of people online will. In my experience they've worked out about as often as they've blown up, but new jobs also have a failure rate. I'd take the role that matches what you want to do and go form there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:I feel obliged to at least tell you that I believe you're making a very big mistake. I’ve accepted “counter-offers” when applying for jobs for the express purpose of sticking it under my skip-level’s nose so he’ll approve the comp raise I want. Never after actually deciding to leave. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Oct 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I think you'll know more about if a counter offer is a good deal or not than a bunch of people online will. In my experience they've worked out about as often as they've blown up, but new jobs also have a failure rate. I'd take the role that matches what you want to do and go form there. I'm posting here mostly because the people in my life I normally ask for career advice have been universally in favor of taking the counter offer, and yeah it's atleast partially because I'm able to share a lot more about what I think about the company & what I want out of my career. I think that even if I decide to take the offer, having the alarm bells ringing in some fashion is a better situation No one here knows me and there's very few poo poo posts about my job in this thread, and no one here can be fairly expected to have the context about my job. What I can expect a bunch of strangers is to have a gut reaction to the basic thing I'm asking about..I think I got some pretty good points that I hadn't thought about, but obviously I'm not gonna ask anyone here to be accountable for my career outcomes, either way. Only I can pay my own bills etc etc
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:23
|
|
|
Assuming you do trust the people making the offer not to gently caress you over (and the thread can and will go around in circles over whether this is a mistake and trust is a lie) then the most important question is probably whether whatever prompted you to leave in the first place has actually changed, or would change if you accepted this offer. Like "other place offered me more money/more interesting work and now current place is offering me those things" is different than "current place still has that one manager who hates me and they get really weird whenever I ask for time off that I'm entitled to but the money's slightly better now" or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
Awkward Davies posted:I have also taken a counter offer and had it turn out fine. Some of the “don’t take the counter offer” advice here verges on conspiracy theory. Sounds like ‘guy that would offer a counteroffer’ kind of talk
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:43
|
|
|
Talking to the interim manager today and he is strongly insinuating that the farewell lunch today for someone who gave notice 2 weeks ago (2 people quitting ago) is going to be the last one the company pays for lol. “From now on there will just be welcome lunches” ok God he is going to lose his poo poo when I give notice.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:44
|
|
|
priznat posted:“From now on there will just be welcome lunches” ok Problem loving solved, manager should present that to the VPs as a promotion argument.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
My last day is next Friday and I’m hoping I can sneak out and not do a whole going away. I just wanna work a normal day and go home
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 18:52
|
|
|
Hotel Kpro posted:My last day is next Friday and I’m hoping I can sneak out and not do a whole going away. I just wanna work a normal day and go home This for sure. If I want to I can go for a beer afterwards with a couple coworkers I like but I am not a big fan of the whole work lunches. Just it’s funny that the manager is going to nickel and dime about it now. He sent out a long email to the senior staff about it and was complaining how entrees are upwards of $30 now. lol lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 19:08
|
|
|
priznat posted:God he is going to lose his poo poo when I give notice. priznat posted:Just it’s funny that the manager is going to nickel and dime about it now. He sent out a long email to the senior staff about it and was complaining how entrees are upwards of $30 now. lol lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 19:18
|
|
|
evil_bunnY posted:now I can't wait to hear it I am sorely tempted to let the skip level know because he definitely would lol. I’m just head down and gtfo though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
Gonna ask the most TPS question I've ever asked: Can anyone recommend a good high-speed laminator? I just spent 3+ hours laminating documents on this old piece of poo poo unit that takes like 3 min per page, and laminating ~100 pages at a time is looking to become a semi-regular part of our process unfortunately. At least, it'll be until I think of a way to weasel around the controlled-print process around GMP Posted Information.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
priznat posted:Talking to the interim manager today and he is strongly insinuating that the farewell lunch today for someone who gave notice 2 weeks ago (2 people quitting ago) is going to be the last one the company pays for lol.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
dirby posted:Wait, your company officially pays for farewells in any capacity beyond maybe a public announcement? I'm shocked that that ever got started. Yeah it was a bit of thing that got started and now they roped it in in the most passive aggressive weaselly way possible. I personally don’t care (although I do like free lunches) but just the messaging behind it was incredibly hamfisted. The skip level actually encouraged us to buy a gift (on the company CC) for the manager who was leaving and took us all out to lunch. Started the precedent lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 21:28
|
|
|
People who leave on good terms should absolutely be treated well on the way out. Obviously if someone is do not rehire don’t buy them a lunch unless you have a compelling reason. Of course, my industry is incestuous af so there’s a good chance you’ll work together again in some form or fashion, or else they’ll end up as clients. Hope you didn’t treat them badly on the way out in that case.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
When I resigned my manager said "are they paying you more? Can you tell me how much?" and when I did he said "wow are they hiring?".
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:People who leave on good terms should absolutely be treated well on the way out. We're gonna get him a cake with like "better the poo poo you know" written on it and a chocolate pretend-poop or something, it's gonna own.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:21
|
|
|
I've just been hit with the RTO stick for not being in the office long enough. Apparently sick time and vacation time aren't disregarded on the corporate quarterly time report for how often people badged in, and the expectation is that if you didn't come in because you were sick, you were expected to make the remaining time be in-person work to ensure you hit the minimum days-per-week onsite. So the 3 weeks I was out with COVID + the week I was out while my daughter had RSV + pneumonia and I was believed to possibly be contagious, plus the other week I was out sick for preschooler-plague, all counted against my WFH budget. I was expected to make up for those.  My response was basically, "Nothing I can do about that now, and nobody said anything until today anyway. I'll see what I can do moving forward." Now to see if upper mgmt decides to dock me any of my bonus for it. The official RTO policy says that failure to abide by it can be treated as a performance issue and used in year-end reviews and bonus/raise calculations. If they do, I'll be out the door. Sundae fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Oct 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:22
|
|
|
Sundae posted:So the 3 weeks I was out with COVID + the week I was out while my daughter had RSV + pneumonia and I was believed to possibly be contagious, plus the other week I was out sick for preschooler-plague, all counted against my WFH budget. I was expected to make up for those.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:23
|
|
|
evil_bunnY posted:"no" I added an edit. Our mgmt is permitted to use it as a negative job performance outcome if you do not make the minimum time-in-office requirements. If they choose to do so, I'll be on to my next company. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:25
|
|
|
Sundae posted:I've just been hit with the RTO stick for not being in the office long enough. Apparently sick time and vacation time aren't disregarded on the corporate quarterly time report for how often people badged in, and the expectation is that if you didn't come in because you were sick, you were expected to make the remaining time be in-person work to ensure you hit the minimum days-per-week onsite. Remind us again why you continue to work there? I think you’ve said it’s great and you’re just grumbling here, but every time you post something I think to myself I’d immediately be looking for other jobs. Unless, of course, it’s to keep providing us with top tier content, and if so, please stay there and 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:29
|
|
|
Sundae posted:I added an edit. Our mgmt is permitted to use it as a negative job performance outcome if you do not make the minimum time-in-office requirements. If they choose to do so, I'll be on to my next company.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2023 23:36
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:Remind us again why you continue to work there? I think you’ve said it’s great and you’re just grumbling here, but every time you post something I think to myself I’d immediately be looking for other jobs. Unless, of course, it’s to keep providing us with top tier content, and if so, please stay there and ~$260K p/yr (variable by bonuses) plus good insurance, decent vacation time, company buses, and extra 401(k) contributions added at the end of the year whether I've contributed a dime or not (I always max it), on top of the match. Golden handcuffs are tough to break. You'll put up with a lot of poo poo for the kind of retirement accounts you can sock away on that kind of $$$, even living in the bay area. Sundae fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Oct 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 00:18
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:Remind us again why you continue to work there? Scroll back for stories of the places they worked before this one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 00:30
|
|
|
Sundae posted:I added an edit. Our mgmt is permitted to use it as a negative job performance outcome if you do not make the minimum time-in-office requirements. If they choose to do so, I'll be on to my next company. You say that, but you've also said several times before that you have continued to work there for years because you are extremely well compensated for what you do, even by nutty Bay Area standards. (e: like 2 posts above this one, for instance!) Are you sure you can easily walk away from that and find something comparable at a company that will let you as a middle manager work remotely?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
Sundae posted:~$260K p/yr (variable by bonuses) plus good insurance, decent vacation time, company buses, and extra 401(k) contributions added at the end of the year whether I've contributed a dime or not (I always max it), on top of the match. Motronic posted:Scroll back for stories of the places they worked before this one. I’ve seen ‘em. Is there not one company that would offer as good of a package for his skills, experience and education that’s not a complete dumpster fire for a person in his position? I suppose not based on his experience, but it’s confusing because my experience on the clinical side of pharma is completely different, at least in my experience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
Dukberry posted:The other people he's involved in the counter-offer are the new director of engineering, who is the old company's COO and the old company's CEO, who I have no idea what he does. This feels like a flag that blends seamlessly between green and red.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
It is what it is. If the buyout wasn't simply to shut down a competitor, the big company that just acquired OP's company needs some institutional knowledge to stick around long enough to be transferred. So they identify and target a few people who have that knowledge and offer them practically a blank check to stay. They forget to mention the part where it's only for 6-9 months or so, to smooth out the transition and make the employee in question no longer load bearing. It's acquisition SOP. That's why I think staying would be a major mistake, if it means burning a bridge with a healthier company that's made a strong offer. I'm not questioning Old COO and old CEO's sincerity in the matter. I am questioning their political capital. They likely won't be around much longer. OK, I admit I am questioning their sincerity a little, too. They know how this works. But the more pertinent issue is the unknown but likely very limited amount of juice they actually have to keep OP on long term under their favorable new employment conditions. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Oct 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
A junior engineer just resigned as part of the big exodus and the interim manager is giving him the full court press to stay with a counter offer etc. I had a chat with him saying ensure you are doing what is best for yourself and be aware of the risks of staying, especially if you’re in an already decimated team. It’s gonna be wild when I give my notice as I’ll be the last one on my team in that location. I don’t give a gently caress so I just will give my terse resignation and do my version of name, rank and serial number (empty platitudes).
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 02:16
|
|
|
priznat posted:A junior engineer just resigned as part of the big exodus and the interim manager is giving him the full court press to stay with a counter offer etc. I had a chat with him saying ensure you are doing what is best for yourself and be aware of the risks of staying, especially if you’re in an already decimated team. Complain about trivial bullshit that's been bugging you for a while in your exit interview; after all, who knows?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 02:19
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:You say that, but you've also said several times before that you have continued to work there for years because you are extremely well compensated for what you do, even by nutty Bay Area standards. (e: like 2 posts above this one, for instance!) Are you sure you can easily walk away from that and find something comparable at a company that will let you as a middle manager work remotely? Pretend that I posted extra nuance like "I'd be applying elsewhere and find something, etc etc" and not literally "bonus is lower? I quit on the spot, you bastards!" Also, the issue isn't the loss of remote work; the issue is the lovely implementation of the RTO requirement. At no point in the course of gathering the data to say that I'm not meeting their in-the-office requirements did they ever indicate that they were counting sick time / infectious-but-working time against me. That doesn't even make sense. Their stance appears to be that even though there's no issue with me having been out sick, or working from home when I suspected I was contagious with something my preschooler brought home, those days still counted for the purposes of calculating how often I was in the office. Even if I'd kept the 3 days per week they want for the rest of the time that I was healthy (which I didn't, in fairness), I'd still have failed, because I needed to be in even more than that to make up for the times I worked from home while sick. Also, let's also remember something from one of my previous posts: I still don't have a desk. I'm squatting in random hoteling offices / open work areas because a Sr. Director stole my office and my former cubicle now belongs to another floor engineer who actually really does need to be on site 4-5 days per week to do his work. He can't run equipment and oversee operations remotely, but I can sit in cross-functional telecons remotely with no impact to my ability to interact with those people. The RTO implementation, simplified: In the name of face-to-face collaborative blah blah, Sundae is hereby ordered to return to his non-existent office, so he can sit in teleconferences all day with other people who aren't in his building/campus/site. I return to nothing, to have no face time, with people who aren't even here. 
Sundae fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Oct 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 04:00
|
|
|
Sundae posted:I return to nothing, to have no face time, with people who aren't even here. Too long for a new thread title.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 04:05
|
|
|
Sundae posted:I added an edit. Our mgmt is permitted to use it as a negative job performance outcome if you do not make the minimum time-in-office requirements. If they choose to do so, I'll be on to my next company. The good news is this sounds like extra work so they probably won't bother.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 04:22
|
|
|
relevant https://twitter.com/TTEcclesBrown/status/1717140735437512835 I agree with her it sucks and none of us should do it anymore! Baddog fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Oct 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 05:17
|
|
|
Wait til these people find out about menial labor
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 11:33
|
|
|
Baddog posted:relevant life comes at you fast
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 12:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:53 |
|
|
Baddog posted:relevant lol at the "real job" editorializing OP is a bigger idiot; they swallowed and internalized the concept that the girl is bitching about. drink that kool aid, oh yeah
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 13:21
|
|
