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The doctors name should have been Dick so there'd be a Tom, Dick, and Harry
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Jan 8, 2020 20:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s so dumb because they are clearly the same character but they really didn’t want to pay that First Duty writer the royalties They're so clearly the same character they even got booted from Starfleet for the same reason (covering up deaths caused by stunting too hard). The only real difference is that Paris ended up with the Maquis for like a month, got captured, and sent to New Zealand for 18 months for treason. At least the royalty thing makes more sense than the writers being like "oh Lorcano committed an irredeemable act"  Sash! posted:Tom Paris should have been his transporter duplicate, who picked his name based on where he materialized and a growing cultural norm that all transporter duplicates are "Tom." Tom Beta Ursae Minor II had a hard time of things.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:13
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The doctors name should have been Dick so there'd be a Tom, Dick, and Harry "So what made you choose Dick, Doctor?" "Well I happened to overhear one crew member say I seem like a Dick, and another confirm that I actually *look* like a Dick. I guess it was fate."
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Jan 8, 2020 20:26
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Angry_Ed posted:They're so clearly the same character they even got booted from Starfleet for the same reason (covering up deaths caused by stunting too hard). The only real difference is that Paris ended up with the Maquis for like a month, got captured, and sent to New Zealand for 18 months for treason. At least the royalty thing makes more sense than the writers being like "oh Lorcano committed an irredeemable act" To a certain extent, the Locarno / Paris thing makes sense. For example, David Simon and Jay Landsman (the Baltimore cop the character was based upon) got a royalty check every single time John Munch showed up in an episode of Law & Order: SVU, which, after fifteen seasons (and two later guest appearances), added up to quite a bit, and is a large reason Munch was absent in a lot of the episodes for his last five or six seasons. That kind of money does have an impact on a show's budget.
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Jan 8, 2020 21:24
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Timby posted:To a certain extent, the Locarno / Paris thing makes sense. For example, David Simon and Jay Landsman (the Baltimore cop the character was based upon) got a royalty check every single time John Munch showed up in an episode of Law & Order: SVU, which, after fifteen seasons (and two later guest appearances), added up to quite a bit, and is a large reason Munch was absent in a lot of the episodes for his last five or six seasons. Did the author who wrote The First Duty (or whatever the TNG episode was called if I'm misremembering) get any sort of payoff? Because it seems like this is a situation where the dues you've been paying to the Writers' Guild should help you out.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:55
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Epicurius posted:One of the characters in Lower Decks is a Vulcan ensign who works in engineering. The same actor also played a Vulcan ensign who works in engineering with a really similar name on Voyager. Same actor was the son of Jeri Taylor, TNG producer and Voyager executive producer!
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Jan 9, 2020 00:06
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Doesn't the story go that they wanted Worf in it but Gene refused and only changed his mind because the choice was between adding Klingon and another woman to the bridge crew? Yes, Bob Justman had been pushing for a Klingon crew member and Gene kept saying no. Then when they're plotting out the Farpoint episode the question comes up as to who would be left in charge of the saucer section; Dorothy Fontana suggests introducing a woman commander and Gene immediately counters with "what about that Klingon fella?"
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Jan 9, 2020 00:09
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Yes, Bob Justman had been pushing for a Klingon crew member and Gene kept saying no. Then when they're plotting out the Farpoint episode the question comes up as to who would be left in charge of the saucer section; Dorothy Fontana suggests introducing a woman commander and Gene immediately counters with "what about that Klingon fella?" Reading between the lines in Inside Star Trek (yes, yes, I know, I've been promising to finish my fact-checking on it forever), it's pretty clear that Justman always had some pretty big issues with Roddenberry's treatment of women.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:12
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There was also an interview with Marina Sirtis where she states that if Denise Crosby hadn't quit the show, they would've have fired Marina instead. Partly because they didn't know what to do with her character but there was definitely an undercurrent of "too many wimmin on the bridge" too.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:15
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Isn't it kind of weird for Gene to be against a woman Commander? Did he change that much from the TOS pilot?
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Jan 9, 2020 00:15
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when you think of all the trouble they went to to get tom paris in the show
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Jan 9, 2020 00:30
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Beachcomber posted:Isn't it kind of weird for Gene yes
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Jan 9, 2020 00:30
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Beachcomber posted:Isn't it kind of weird for Gene to be against a woman Commander? Did he change that much from the TOS pilot? Rick Berman
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Jan 9, 2020 00:31
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Timby posted:Reading between the lines in Inside Star Trek (yes, yes, I know, I've been promising to finish my fact-checking on it forever), it's pretty clear that Justman always had some pretty big issues with Roddenberry's treatment of women. I think he made that fairly explicit when he mentioned that Majel Barrett always looked "stricken" when Gene bragged about sleeping around in front of her, and that he got the impression Gene got a sick kick out of hurting her like that.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:41
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EvilTaytoMan posted:There was also an interview with Marina Sirtis where she states that if Denise Crosby hadn't quit the show, they would've have fired Marina instead. Partly because they didn't know what to do with her character but there was definitely an undercurrent of "too many wimmin on the bridge" too. I'm glad later on she got actual stuff to do some of the time, although it was still not enough. I rewatched Face of the Enemy recently and that's a great Troi episode.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:49
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Beachcomber posted:Isn't it kind of weird for Gene to be against a woman Commander? Did he change that much from the TOS pilot?
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Jan 9, 2020 00:51
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Beachcomber posted:Isn't it kind of weird for Gene to be against a woman Commander? Did he change that much from the TOS pilot? Going off memory so the exact phrasing may be off, but Gene was quoted as having said, during a TNG meeting (about the Angel One episode), that "of course, all women are c---ts, and you would never want them to get into power." I think he'd always regarded women as inferior to some degree, but how much of his later bitterness and naked misogyny was due to his divorce/senility/drug abuse, and how much had always been there and just not expressed, is debatable. I believe people can change (at least to some extent), and with that comes the potential to change for the worse.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:54
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FlamingLiberal posted:She's really useless in those early seasons. In the pilot especially, she's just constantly talking about feeling things and she starts to cry or whatever, and it's embarrassing In the pilot, she didn't just read emotions, she seemed to always feel them right along with the person. That got dropped pretty early on, along with the idea of her and Riker being able to psychically talk to each other.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:55
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Going off memory so the exact phrasing may be off, but Gene was quoted as having said, during a TNG meeting (about the Angel One episode), that "of course, all women are c---ts, and you would never want them to get into power." But I think a lot of it was divorces and issues with drugs
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Jan 9, 2020 00:56
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Powered Descent posted:In the pilot, she didn't just read emotions, she seemed to always feel them right along with the person. That got dropped pretty early on, along with the idea of her and Riker being able to psychically talk to each other.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:57
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FlamingLiberal posted:It was also just a thing for his generation lol
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Jan 9, 2020 01:07
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gene's first draft of the lyrics he wrote to screw the TOS theme guy out of royalties were just "gently caress bitches" over & over again. the network made him change it
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Jan 9, 2020 01:18
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oh but seriously I posted:gene's first draft of the lyrics he wrote to screw the TOS theme guy out of royalties were just "gently caress bitches" over & over again. the network made him change it Yeah, that was pretty awful. Speaking of, that's one of the things that's blatantly false in Inside Star Trek. Solow and Justman write that Courage was so pissed-off over the lyrics thing that he never worked for Star Trek again, but he contributed music to some late season 2 episodes, and he wrote about 40 minutes of new music that was used throughout season 3. FlamingLiberal posted:It was also just a thing for his generation His divorce was definitely messy (he tried to offer his ex-wife the rights to Star Trek in lieu of alimony, and at the time the rights weren't worth the day-old socks I'm wearing), but the simple fact of the matter is that Gene Roddenberry was a born and bred sociopath, and first booze then later LSD and cocaine made everything worse.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:32
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oh but seriously I posted:gene's first draft of the lyrics he wrote to screw the TOS theme guy out of royalties were just "gently caress bitches" over & over again. the network made him change it Fuuuuck biiiitcheees, get Muh uh uh ney. Fuuuck biiitches, get muh uh ney.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:38
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Mooseontheloose posted:Fuuuuck biiiitcheees, get Muh uh uh ney. Fuuuck biiitches, get muh uh ney. Oh for the love of Landru those lyrics are stuck in my head now
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Jan 9, 2020 01:56
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A lot of stuff about Gene starts to come together when you learn he was a cop for 7 years
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Jan 9, 2020 02:39
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Variety interviewed Patrick Stewart and there are some Picard show details I don't think have been laid out yet https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/1215094088229433344 quote:“Picard” finds its hero living in near-isolation on a very un-cosmic French vineyard. He is retired and estranged from Starfleet, the interstellar navy to which he devoted most of his life. He’s haunted by a pair of catastrophes, one personal, the other societal — the death of his android colleague Lt. Cmdr. Data (as seen in “Nemesis”) and a refugee crisis spawned by the destruction of the planet Romulus (as seen in Abrams’ “Star Trek”). When those two seemingly disparate strands of his life cross, Picard returns to action, this time without the backing of a Starfleet whose moral center has shifted.
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Jan 9, 2020 03:34
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Jan 9, 2020 03:44
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Beachcomber posted:Isn't it kind of weird for Gene to be against a woman Commander? Did he change that much from the TOS pilot? None of the rest of them were his mistress.
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Jan 9, 2020 03:56
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I told you! I told you assholes not to hope!
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Jan 9, 2020 04:08
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Oh.. no. This doesn’t sound good at all does it?
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Jan 9, 2020 04:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:Variety interviewed Patrick Stewart and there are some Picard show details I don't think have been laid out yet This sounds fine and perfectly in line with some of the deconstruction started by DS9. It only becomes a problem if Picard himself buys into whatever grey morality Starfleet is into without stopping to question it (ie. large chunks of Discovery). There’s nothing inherently wrong with challenging established characters by shaking up their worldview. Like everything, it depends on the execution.
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Jan 9, 2020 04:11
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Nah. Deconstructing doesn't mean turning to poo poo. DS9 challenged the grey areas, it didn't just flip them to black.
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Jan 9, 2020 04:31
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Big Mean Jerk posted:This sounds fine and perfectly in line with some of the deconstruction started by DS9. It only becomes a problem if Picard himself buys into whatever grey morality Starfleet is into without stopping to question it (ie. large chunks of Discovery).
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Jan 9, 2020 04:47
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MikeJF posted:Nah. Deconstructing doesn't mean turning to poo poo. DS9 challenged the grey areas, it didn't just flip them to black. Starfleet and the Federation turning a blind eye to bad situations or harboring corrupt leaders has been a thing for literal decades in this franchise. Half of TNG is Picard railing against his own superiors about how they should actually act instead of clinging to policy. This just seems like a continuation of that, the only difference being Picard setting out to right those wrongs without the benefit of an actual command. 
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Jan 9, 2020 04:52
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I'm going to link back to my speculation post on the general plot because it's seeming more and more likely now. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3781992&userid=15250&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post496902362
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Jan 9, 2020 04:58
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Writers just can't believe in a good future anymore, I guess. Hard to blame them.
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Jan 9, 2020 04:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sounds based on that description and what we have seen in the trailers that Picard can't get Starfleet to help him with the refugees so he gets a crew together /meme "You son of a bitch, I'm in."
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Jan 9, 2020 05:09
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Starfleet and the Federation turning a blind eye to bad situations or harboring corrupt leaders has been a thing for literal decades in this franchise. Half of TNG is Picard railing against his own superiors about how they should actually act instead of clinging to policy. It's almost like he's staging his own personal rebellion against the authorities. An insurrection, if you will.
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Jan 9, 2020 05:40
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It’s like you’re all astronauts on some kind of star trek picard starring patrick stewart only on cbs all access
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Jan 9, 2020 05:48
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