p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

i am constantly amazed at how terrible the c standard library is. nearly every function it provides is dangerous, unusably broken, obviously incomplete, riddled with subtle undefined behavior, or some absurd combination of the above

# ? Nov 13, 2021 15:48

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 18:22

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Xarn posted:

C++ is garbage

# ? Nov 13, 2021 15:49

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Internet Janitor posted:

i am constantly amazed at how terrible the c standard library is. nearly every function it provides is dangerous, unusably broken, obviously incomplete, riddled with subtle undefined behavior, or some absurd combination of the above

You forgot slow :v:

# ? Nov 13, 2021 16:36

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Internet Janitor posted:

i am constantly amazed at how terrible the c standard library is. nearly every function it provides is dangerous, unusably broken, obviously incomplete, riddled with subtle undefined behavior, or some absurd combination of the above

so time travel back to the 70s and do something about it. yes, the c standard library wasn't officially made a standard until the 80s, but much of the work it incorporated goes back to the dawn of unix and c

# ? Nov 13, 2021 17:02

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

how to choose a language: first, time travel back to the 70s

# ? Nov 13, 2021 17:11

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

Unironically yes, so that you can change the language the project has been started in :v:

# ? Nov 13, 2021 18:03

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

somebody learning python as a first lang posted:

is there a reason to use # comment instead of ''' comment '''
do these do different things

hmm that seems odd syntax I say to myself, I should look it up

quote:

Or, not quite as intended, you can use a multiline string.

Since Python will ignore string literals that are not assigned to a variable, you can add a multiline string (triple quotes) in your code, and place your comment inside it:

lmao

# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:47

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

gonadic io posted:

hmm that seems odd syntax I say to myself, I should look it up

lmao

# should be used for comments, string literals are typically reserved for documentation strings - they�ll automatically show up if someone does help(foo.Bar) on your library

# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:49

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

lol what, they actually standardized using ignored multiline string literals as doc comments

# ? Nov 13, 2021 20:55

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

rjmccall posted:

lol what, they actually standardized using ignored multiline string literals as doc comments

yes, so-called docstrings were standardized a long time ago

python has a lot of accreted history

# ? Nov 13, 2021 21:07

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

docstrings are only immediately after a function declaration, right? string literals after anything else are just ignored string literals

also they don't have to be multiline iirc

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:08

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

pokeyman posted:

docstrings are only immediately after a function declaration, right? string literals after anything else are just ignored string literals

also they don't have to be multiline iirc

yes, though also in other contexts e.g. class definitions or module start

and yes, triple quotes are the special case multi line syntax

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:16

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

right forgot class definition. didn't know about module start, that's handy

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:31

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

the real cursed poo poo is package docstrings, which is the module docstring of root-level __init__.py

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:59

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

lol what

at that point maybe just bless having a readme.rst

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:10

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

my favorite thing about python syntax lately is that

code:

@lambda f: f
def func():
  pass

is valid

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:22

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

which was so gtk (iirc) could do

code:

@foo[�bar�]
def baz():
  �

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:27

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

pokeyman posted:

lol what

at that point maybe just bless having a readme.rst

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0257/#what-is-a-docstring pep-257 to the �rescue�

quote:

A package may be documented in the module docstring of the __init__.py file in the package directory.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:28

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Internet Janitor posted:

i am constantly amazed at how terrible the c standard library is. nearly every function it provides is dangerous, unusably broken, obviously incomplete, riddled with subtle undefined behavior, or some absurd combination of the above

I recently was confused at why 'pow(x,2)' was much slower than 'x*x'. Well, not confused at the performance difference ('pow' is a libm call), but that the C compiler wouldn't optimise the former to the latter even under -O3. Eventually I realised that all the math functions can set loving errno, so they have side effects. Now I need to look into whether -fno-math-errno is enough to fix this. (Or the comedy option -ffast-math which implies -fno-math-errno.)

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:42

Joe Chip: Jan 4, 2014

Joe Chip fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 19, 2021

# ? Nov 14, 2021 00:46

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

Athas posted:

I recently was confused at why 'pow(x,2)' was much slower than 'x*x'. Well, not confused at the performance difference ('pow' is a libm call), but that the C compiler wouldn't optimise the former to the latter even under -O3. Eventually I realised that all the math functions can set loving errno, so they have side effects. Now I need to look into whether -fno-math-errno is enough to fix this. (Or the comedy option -ffast-math which implies -fno-math-errno.)

i can't reproduce that, both gcc and clang flatten pow(x, 2) to a single instruction without any special flags

https://godbolt.org/z/xd4Gr7TEb

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:00

animist: Aug 28, 2018

dougdrums posted:

my favorite thing about python syntax lately is that
code:
@lambda f: f
def func():
  pass
is valid

that's amazing. wait, can you use an arbitrary expression as a decorator?

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:29

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

animist posted:

that's amazing. wait, can you use an arbitrary expression as a decorator?

I think it�s because the lambda is a function and a decorator applies a function to a function, it�s just anonymous in this case

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:39

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

yeah, functions are first class, and the pie (don�t ask) syntax is just syntactic sugar to avoid doing foo_decorator(foo()) every time you call foo. lambdas in decorator is imo a crazy code smell, but there�s no reason for that to not work

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:52

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

the pie (don�t ask)

I�m asking

e: found it. PEPs are useful for historical research I guess

quote:

Barry Warsaw named this the 'pie-decorator' syntax, in honor of the Pie-thon Parrot shootout which occurred around the same time as the decorator syntax, and because the @ looks a little like a pie. Guido outlined his case [8] on Python-dev, including this piece [9] on some of the (many) rejected forms.

cinci zoo sniper posted:

lambdas in decorator is imo a crazy code smell, but there�s no reason for that to not work

agreed on both points

prisoner of waffles fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 14, 2021

# ? Nov 14, 2021 05:15

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

rjmccall posted:

lol what, they actually standardized using ignored multiline string literals as doc comments

'use strict'

# ? Nov 14, 2021 06:37

b0lt: Apr 29, 2005

repiv posted:

i can't reproduce that, both gcc and clang flatten pow(x, 2) to a single instruction without any special flags

https://godbolt.org/z/xd4Gr7TEb

that's because pow(x, 2) cannot set errno. try with a negative or non-integral exponent (which will set errno for zero and a negative x respectively)

# ? Nov 14, 2021 09:27

mystes: May 31, 2006

b0lt posted:

that's because pow(x, 2) cannot set errno. try with a negative or non-integral exponent (which will set errno for zero and a negative x respectively)

The original post was also about pow(x,2) though?

# ? Nov 14, 2021 12:58

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

https://twitter.com/m_ou_se/status/1459856266440941574?s=20

# ? Nov 14, 2021 14:57

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

animist posted:

that's amazing. wait, can you use an arbitrary expression as a decorator?

yup

code:

decorator ::= "@" assignment_expression NEWLINE

of course if it�s not callable it will raise an exception at runtime

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0614/

dougdrums fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 14, 2021

# ? Nov 14, 2021 14:59

mystes: May 31, 2006

gonadic io posted:

https://twitter.com/m_ou_se/status/1459856266440941574?s=20

Cool, but also, gross.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 14:59

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

dougdrums posted:

yup

code:

decorator ::= "@" assignment_expression NEWLINE

i guess now that i think of it, you might be able to do something like

code:

@func := lambda f: f(f)
def func():
  pass

or something sillier, but i haven�t tried it

dougdrums fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Nov 14, 2021

# ? Nov 14, 2021 15:18

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

also I got qt mixed up with gtk lol

# ? Nov 14, 2021 15:26

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

redleader posted:

'use strict'

dunking on javascript in the PL thread is easier than shooting ducks in a barrel

# ? Nov 14, 2021 15:47

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

gonadic io posted:

https://twitter.com/m_ou_se/status/1459856266440941574?s=20

im going to very slowly poop in keyboards of every person involved in making this happen

# ? Nov 14, 2021 15:48

mystes: May 31, 2006

prisoner of waffles posted:

dunking on javascript in the PL thread is easier than shooting ducks in a barrel

Have you tried to get the ducks into the barrel?

# ? Nov 14, 2021 16:00

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

cinci zoo sniper posted:

im going to very slowly poop in keyboards of every person involved in making this happen

mara does some pretty great rust shitposts
https://twitter.com/m_ou_se/status/1368632701448818691

# ? Nov 14, 2021 16:02

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

gonadic io posted:

mara does some pretty great rust shitposts
https://twitter.com/m_ou_se/status/1368632701448818691

ah, respect then. unfortunately some people unironically enjoy using matplotlib

# ? Nov 14, 2021 16:29

prisoner of waffles: May 8, 2007; Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

mystes posted:

Have you tried to get the ducks into the barrel?

easier than getting a good create-react-app config

# ? Nov 14, 2021 17:24

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 18:22

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

prisoner of waffles posted:

e: found it. PEPs are useful for historical research I guess

that just raises more questions

# ? Nov 14, 2021 19:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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