|
Powered Descent posted:If the actual owners don't do a proper remaster, then at some point we're sure to see an unofficial fan-made upscale of the whole show. It's a lot like how Lucas kept refusing to release a decent HD version of Star Wars, so fans made the Despecialized Edition and released it on the high seas. The grungy pirate 4K scans of the original film reels are now my preferred version. The grain, the crushed contrast and all the dirt and scratches, it's all perfect.
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 18:00 |
|
|
That comic refers to the Scroll of Truth not the Scroll of Perennial Buzzkill
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
Hasn't CBS been pretty lovely in recent years with fan projects? I have to believe that if someone released a full-length AI-upscaled episode they'd DMCA the poo poo out of it. And I don't think that would be the straw breaking the Can-We-Profit-From-This camel's back 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:The grungy pirate 4K scans of the original film reels are now my preferred version. The grain, the crushed contrast and all the dirt and scratches, it's all perfect. The original trilogy comes out in 4k UHD physical blu-ray on Tuesday. So that's going to be a great base for the despecialized editions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:Hasn't CBS been pretty lovely in recent years with fan projects? I have to believe that if someone released a full-length AI-upscaled episode they'd DMCA the poo poo out of it. And I don't think that would be the straw breaking the Can-We-Profit-From-This camel's back Yeah, thanks to that Axanar rear end in a top hat, they've really clamped down on fan films and such. But something like a complete upscale project wouldn't be on youtube, it'd be on bittorrent. So all they could do is join the huge chorus of lawyers helplessly shaking their fists, with no one to sue but the occasional end user who hasn't gotten a VPN yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
Yeah, most likely. I doubt they'd have the foresight to go "well maybe if we do a Voyager one we can profit" ( )
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
I mean, there's like constant ads everywhere about being able to watch all of star trek on CBS all-access. You'd think they would want to add "in HD" on to that since DS9 and Voyager are the only two things that aren't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 22:37
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Then you get this weird effect where every time they punch something up on a screen or fire a phaser the lighting and balance shifts and the quality drops for the duration of the effect and snaps back at the end. B5 had this issue sometimes because they lost the effect masters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
Payndz posted:Hell, you can see something similar on TOS, and not just with VFX. Any shot leading into a fadeout is of noticeably lower quality than the rest of the same scene. (The fades were done on an optical printer that made copies of the original footage.) Usually the shots are quick enough for it to pass, but some episodes end acts on longer shots that make the drop in quality painfully obvious. I think 'Mirror, Mirror' has a scene in the transporter room without any cuts for quite a long time before the fadeout, and if anything the HD restoration makes it even more glaring because you're used to everything being clear and sharp. watching TOS on my 4k tv occasionally causes some weird whiplash, and some shots in particular look horrific. There's a shot in Assignment: Earth! where its literally just a reaction shot of the secretary but it looks like my glasses stopped working and my eyes grew a shitload of cataracts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2020 23:56
|
|
|
TheDiceMustRoll posted:watching TOS on my 4k tv occasionally causes some weird whiplash, and some shots in particular look horrific. There's a shot in Assignment: Earth! where its literally just a reaction shot of the secretary but it looks like my glasses stopped working and my eyes grew a shitload of cataracts. There's most likely a totally different reason for that. TOS and pretty much all '60s TV was notorious for the whole "Vaseline on the lens" thing. Can't allow a single wrinkle, ladies! Unless that's 
Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 00:12
|
|
|
Watching DS9 Season 1, episode "The Passenger" and TIL that on Deep Space Nine, they consider waste reclamation to be a non-essential system. Uh, what? Non-essential? That's a lot of poop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 00:33
|
|
|
Just eject it into the wormhole. Not like there's any massively powerful empires to worry about over there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 00:57
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:$12 million for the full restoration. So simply scanning the film in HD for archival shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive. The TNG stuff was also done almost a decade ago so some aspects of this workflow have become cheaper and more common over time. Problem isn't whether or not tools can technically exist, it's setting up and staffing the pipeline that would likely be the bulk of the costs. There are 176 episodes of DS9. Even with the TNG cost of $12 million that's only $67 thousand per episode. Still sounds like a lot, but that has to cover tools, software, hardware, staffing costs. I'd be surprised if even with those tools they could get it down much lower. The Bloop posted:There are super fans that would work on this for a loving EP credit or less. People who could really help. A major studio absolutely won't do this, and their union agreements probably explicitly forbid having them do it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 01:14
|
|
|
This Netflix tiger show is the greatest television program I’ve ever watched. E: whoops, wrong thread. I’m not wrong though. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:This Netflix tiger show is the greatest television program I’ve ever watched. Probably wrong thread but yeah it’s loving wild.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 01:58
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:$12 million for the full restoration. So simply scanning the film in HD for archival shouldn't be anywhere near as expensive. The TNG stuff was also done almost a decade ago so some aspects of this workflow have become cheaper and more common over time. Really they should redo season 2 of TNG while they're at it. SCheeseman posted:The grungy pirate 4K scans of the original film reels are now my preferred version. The grain, the crushed contrast and all the dirt and scratches, it's all perfect. 
McSpanky fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
I still can’t believe how bad some of the TNG HD S2 episodes look.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:22
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:The grungy pirate 4K scans of the original film reels are now my preferred version. The grain, the crushed contrast and all the dirt and scratches, it's all perfect. Umph, yeah, it's so good     Big Mean Jerk posted:I still can’t believe how bad some of the TNG HD S2 episodes look. Weren't the Okudas in charge of the remaster that season? Weird how comparatively low-rent it turned out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:The grungy pirate 4K scans of the original film reels are now my preferred version. The grain, the crushed contrast and all the dirt and scratches, it's all perfect. Cross-Section posted:Umph, yeah, it's so good I have to get these holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
Season 2 was done by HTV Illuminate rather than CBS Digital. The idea is they would trade off seasons to streamline production more. A lot of the issues with Season 2 were poor communication and improper scoping of work. HTV Illuminate was operating under pretty much the same rules as TOS remastered which was "replicate the look of the old episode using modern production techniques" but CBS digital was going one step further and actually going back to the original design of the effects and producing them as if they were doing it from scratch with a modern level of detail. So, that's why you had poo poo like blurry low detail planetscapes for season 2. HTV Illuminate was just recreating what the original looked like and composited it in whereas CBS digital would build a new planetscape from scratch with a 2012 level of detail. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Cross-Section posted:Weren't the Okudas in charge of the remaster that season? Weird how comparatively low-rent it turned out. I don’t think they were in charge but they, along with Doug Drexler and a few other folks, were part of the team. The big issue though is that originally CBS tried to split the work between their own studio and an independent studio in order to push the seasons out faster but the independent studio loving sucked and as a result S2 was the only one they did.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Hey I don't know if anyone's heard, but there are some pretty great episodes of TNG out there!
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:I don’t think they were in charge but they, along with Doug Drexler and a few other folks, were part of the team. The big issue though is that originally CBS tried to split the work between their own studio and an independent studio in order to push the seasons out faster but the independent studio loving sucked and as a result S2 was the only one they did. They also did season 4 actually. It was after they mucked it up for a second time did they not use them again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 16:35
|
|
|
Nice to see Tony Todd still working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57NPnGvhzvE&t=1285s
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 00:18
|
|
|
I was watching some DS9s earlier and they were ones that featured Old Man Sisko. Then I decided to listen to the old NPR Star Wars radio drama while I did the dishes, which turns out features Old Man Sisko as Darth Vader. It was not a smooth transition for my brain.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 04:44
|
|
|
If they can't justify funding a remaster for the most popular Star Trek, Voyager, they aren't going to do it for the red-headed stepchild of the franchise, DS9.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
I will say after recently marathoning Voyager, the final two seasons actually look pretty drat sharp even at SD. I was impressed. Though that’s probably due to more modern lighting and cinematography taking over, I wonder if they switched over to a digital editing workflow around that time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:54
|
|
|
Here's a legit question: Did the existence of WB hurt Deep Space 9? Here in New York, Next Generation aired on WPIX 11 and because they were an independent channel that ran syndicated series and movies (Had a really good movie library), there was a prestige to Next Generation. It felt like a real show. Farpoint had a whole special premiere and I remember they had a whole marathon that ran before All Good Things. But I remember Deep Space 9 airing at like 6 PM on Sundays which was mostly after the channel was owned by WB and had actual original programming. The fact that it was implicitly advertising watching a primetime UPN show couldn't have helped.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:59
|
|
|
I only ever saw DS9 air super late at night and it’s part of the reason why my folks, despite being gigantic Trek and TNG nerds, never bothered to keep up with it. I didn’t even finish watching the show until the DVDs came out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:02
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Here's a legit question: Did the existence of WB hurt Deep Space 9? No. DS9 was syndicated, just as TNG was. It wasn't a viewership powerhouse, though, so different stations ran it at different times.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
Timby posted:No. DS9 was syndicated, just as TNG was. It wasn't a viewership powerhouse, though, so different stations ran it at different times. What I'm basically suggesting is: Was part of the reason that Next Gen so successful because independent stations could buy the syndication rights and spin it as a prime time TV? And did Deep Space 9 suffer by having WB and UPN taking over independent stations?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
That's just one market though. TNG was never treated as primetime programming in my market. It aired at like 6pm or 7pm on Saturdays. DS9 was pretty much about the same. Being prime time didn't help Voyager. Aside from the first season, Voyager pulled in a smaller crowd than DS9 consistently. And no matter what the series, they all have ratings that networks would murder for today. For half of its run, DS9 was seen by more eyeballs than any season of the Big Bang Theory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
God, I remember the late VOY and ENT days when the Nielsen ratings would come in, and getting a 4.x or 3.x was seen as grounds for potential cancellation. Those are astounding live ratings these days. Apples and oranges between viewing habits though, in the age of streaming.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
Even just ten years ago, NBC comedies were living or dying on that 1.8-1.9 bubble. The Good Place and Superstore recently survived for four+ seasons averaging less than a 1.2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 23:29
|
|
|
Cat Hatter posted:There was a guy a while back who was fiddling around with upscaling DS9 just to see how well the software worked even when you don't have the settings dialed in right. Both the Voyager and DS9 ones use software from Topaz labs, but the DS9 one used Topaz AI Gigapixel and the Voyager one uses Topaz Video Enhance AI. It looks better in my opinion, the screenshots in that TrekCore thread are just amazing knowing how low quality even the DVDs are. https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/1242270468675112960
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:01
|
|
|
I suggested it before, but these are neural upscale systems, and it should theoretically be possible to use the TNG DVDs vs TNG-HD itself as a training set on top of the existing base to train the AI how Trek should look and help it deal with things like displays and effects and space stuff better, and give you a better upscale on DS9 and Voyager.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
It’s probably only a matter of time before some fan starts doing full episodes with it, it’s just a question of how far they’ll get before they’re shut down by CBS.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
Looky here https://www.engadget.com/2020-03-29-star-trek-voyager-4k-unofficial-ai-remaster.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:42
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s probably only a matter of time before some fan starts doing full episodes with it, it’s just a question of how far they’ll get before they’re shut down by CBS. There's no stopping the pirate bay 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 18:00 |
|
|
MikeJF posted:I suggested it before, but these are neural upscale systems, and it should theoretically be possible to use the TNG DVDs vs TNG-HD itself as a training set on top of the existing base to train the AI how Trek should look and help it deal with things like displays and effects and space stuff better, and give you a better upscale on DS9 and Voyager. I was thinking about this as well, it makes me wonder if there are any open source systems that can do the same thing without the $200/$300 cost. Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s probably only a matter of time before some fan starts doing full episodes with it, it’s just a question of how far they’ll get before they’re shut down by CBS. That sort of thing would get passed around in the piracy areas like the DVDs and the TV rips have for 20+ years. All someone would have to do to avoid getting shut down by CBS is to keep quiet about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2020 18:50
|
|