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Basebf555 posted:Every one of the Star Wars movies are "trash" to varying degrees, but I like them all anyway. THANK YOU!
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Jan 8, 2016 21:59
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bruvs be4 luvs
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Han also says a million times that he's loving off once he gets his money, but he never does. Its almost like he just says things to make himself feel better...
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Jan 8, 2016 22:00
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computer parts posted:If your friend said magic is totally real and he saw an imp with a laser sword, would you believe him or think he's loving with you? Are these people from Earth circa 2016, where there is no long range space travel or any direct evidence of magic beyond illusions? Or are these people who grew up on Alderaan where there was a Jedi council, and their last leader was the daughter of their "chosen one" prophecy? I imagine you'd get distinctly different answers depending on the group. Also, Han only directly disputed the ephermal, omnipresent deity aspect of the force, not necessarily some of the powers that stem from it.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:01
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Basebf555 posted:Han also says a million times that he's loving off once he gets his money, but he never does. Its almost like he just says things to make himself feel better... Yea, he was trying to get Leia to make him stay. I've used that tactic before. He was trying to see how she felt about him.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:01
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Dubplate Fire posted:Why doesn't Chewbacca explain to Han Solo that the force is real since he loving knows Yoda? I don't see how those are retcons, they're just odd pieces that are never explicitly fit together for the audience (doesn't mean they can't be fit together by us, but then they don't really need to be either). Especially the latter. A Jedi talking about midichlorians isn't a retcon of another Jedi not talking about them.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:02
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Dubplate Fire posted:He says that it's parlor tricks, implying that it's an illusion, not the real deal. Then in the greatest film in the franchise, TFA, he admits that its all real. Han Solo: Kid I've flown from one side of the galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never anything to make me believe there is one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical field that controls my destiny. Chewbacca wasn't a Jedi, so even if he saw force powers and other external manifestations of the force, and told Han about them, that doesn't mean Han would believe his destiny was controlled by these powers. "It's all a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense"
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Jan 8, 2016 22:03
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Dubplate Fire posted:Yea, he was trying to get Leia to make him stay. I've used that tactic before. He was trying to see how she felt about him. Plus, there was an actual bounty on his head. Apparently enticing enough that some jagoff on Ord Mandell tried to claim him while he was fleeing with the Rebels. EDIT: Wasn't Han talking about how he gets by on "a bunch of tricks and nonsense" in ANH?
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Jan 8, 2016 22:04
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Filthy Casual posted:Are these people from Earth circa 2016, where there is no long range space travel or any direct evidence of magic beyond illusions? Or are these people who grew up on Alderaan where there was a Jedi council, and their last leader was the daughter of their "chosen one" prophecy? I'm really confused here, if nothing else because there's no indication Han ever met a Jedi before or was born on Alderaan.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_Jdts5rL0
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Jan 8, 2016 22:06
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Dubplate Fire posted:Just admit that the movies are trash but you like them. I would have more respect for you if you did that, you don't have to justify every single bad decision made by the lord and savior george lucas. No one cares about your respect, and the prequels are good movies. You should watch them again this weekend.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:06
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computer parts posted:I'm really confused here, if nothing else because there's no indication Han ever met a Jedi before or was born on Alderaan. Yeah, I can see you're having trouble. Might wanna take a break, champ.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:07
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Filthy Casual posted:Are these people from Earth circa 2016, where there is no long range space travel or any direct evidence of magic beyond illusions? Or are these people who grew up on Alderaan where there was a Jedi council, and their last leader was the daughter of their "chosen one" prophecy? Well most probably didn't grow up on Coruscant. It's like OA, Green Lantern world, and there are some planets that have a native green Lantern, but in a lot of space places you never would see a green Lantern. Even the world that had them you would probably never see one. But imagine the manhunters killed all the Green Lanterns but two, and then stopped teaching Green Lantern in history classes and there was no wikipedia to look them up on, and they actively punished anyone who would talk about them publicly. Also imagine green Lanterns weren't that great at their jobs so they weren't very popular in the galaxy in the first place.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:08
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Holy gently caress, its beautiful. quote:Well most probably didn't grow up on Coruscant. Even 9 year old slaves in the outer rim know about the Jedi. Alderaan just seemed like a decent enough "some guy" location for the example. As for the Green Lantern part, maybe? Going off the Mos Eisley cantina scene, the patron's reaction to Obi-Wan gave a feel of "don't see that poo poo everyday" rather than "the gently caress is that thing?". People talk, and in a galaxy there's only so much an Empire can do to quash it. Not to mention they're presented as pretty ubiquitous prior to the purge, with a decent number of people having a living memory of the Jedi's fall. Filthy Casual fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 22:08
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Black Bones posted:No one cares about your respect, and the prequels are good movies. You should watch them again this weekend. Frankly I will never watch those movies again. The only reason I even liked Star Wars as a kid was because of X-Wing, TIE Fighter and Dark Forces. I didn't even see the movies until they came out on VHS, I didn't like the Force stuff so much. You wanna talk about disappointment bigger than the prequels tho, Rebel Assault... that poo poo sucked even more than Attack of the Clones.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:18
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCm8yAxBr8
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Jan 8, 2016 22:22
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I hate this.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:30
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Xwing, tie fighter, and dark forces were a rad as hell
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Jan 8, 2016 22:31
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Steve2911 posted:I hate this. its good
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Jan 8, 2016 22:31
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corn in the fridge posted:Xwing, tie fighter, and dark forces were a rad as hell Better than any movie tbh.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:37
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Holy poo poo that made my day
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Jan 8, 2016 22:45
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I think this thread would go a lot smoother if people stopped insisting that movies were "good" or "bad" and just restricted themselves to saying they liked or disliked them. I really liked The Force Awakens and dislike the prequels. This is not a statement on any of those movies' intrinsic quality. Also, the Auralnauts are fantastic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Xdfql7C0Y
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Jan 8, 2016 22:55
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Phylodox posted:I think this thread would go a lot smoother if people stopped insisting that movies were "good" or "bad" and just restricted themselves to saying they liked or disliked them. Yea, word.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:56
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Noam Chomsky posted:If Lucas was attempting to convey what SMG claims he was, then he failed, since the only person I've ever anyone say this kind of stuff about the PT is SMG. So, one person got it, I guess. That's more or less how I feel too. If Lucas really did intend to convey a lot of the things people (not just SMG) are claiming, I still feel he did a poor job as a director, because he really didn't direct the audience's attention towards this stuff. He focused on absolutely everything else. I guess your mileage may vary -- some people will say stuff was obvious, others won't. And you can always argue that Lucas deliberately hid this stuff from the average viewer to make some sort of point. Personally I just don't buy that. I also feel that the Special Editions of the original trilogy argue in favor of the idea that what really drives Lucas is pushing the limits of special effects and other aspects of post-production. Which is cool, and it was undoubtedly one of the things that made the original Star Wars so special. But -- and I'm being quite charitable here -- I think the kind of story he wanted to tell in the prequels was very much at odds with his directing style.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:58
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The Phantom Menace how it should have been https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCm8yAxBr8
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Jan 8, 2016 23:01
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Sir Lemming posted:That's more or less how I feel too. If Lucas really did intend to convey a lot of the things people (not just SMG) are claiming, I still feel he did a poor job as a director, because he really didn't direct the audience's attention towards this stuff. He focused on absolutely everything else. I guess your mileage may vary -- some people will say stuff was obvious, others won't. And you can always argue that Lucas deliberately hid this stuff from the average viewer to make some sort of point. Personally I just don't buy that. I like the movies and I even like a lot of these theories. It's just that watching the movies things kind of waffle back and forth and all the stuff about the Jedi being evil and/or incompetent never crystallizes. That's kind of a bad move when the audience is primed to believe the Jedi are good and knowledgeable and competent, and are shown to be many times. That idea would also work a while lot better if the Sith weren't cartoonishly evil to the point of having red eyes and murdering children - there's no moral relativism there.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:04
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One thing that always drove me crazy in The Phantom Menace was that when Maul goes jetting off on his little scooter, I thought there should have been a little bicycle bell sound effect.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:04
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:The Phantom Menace how it should have been Totally on board with this.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:05
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Noam Chomsky posted:I don't disagree with any of that. I guess I was originally trying to point out that the interpretations of SMG and others should not be taken as the canonical meaning behind the films simply because they provide very detailed claims and analysis, doubly so if it impedes your enjoyment of the films; all it is is their interpretation, nothing more. This is a common problem in Cinema Discusso; a person will critique an aspect of a film that they found lacking in their personal interpretation of the film, then another posterdeclares them wrong for denouncing an aspect vital to their interpretation. Despite all the parading of subtext, death of the author, and high art, you'll find that a lot of posters just want to be "that over-obsessed nerd who has a justification for everything" but without the swirlies. Subversion is their orange kryptonite/hypersonic quadthrusters/mandalorian reflexes. quote:When you get right down to it a lot of the major criticisms rely on the idea that Lucas didn't realize the content of his own films- not even the "deep" meaning we've discussed here, but just basic stuff. This is literally the basis for Death of the Author and the idea that authorial intent can be poorly conveyed or misinterpreted by the viewer. quote:What else is there? Who decides the "canonical meaning", and why should anyone else accept it? The viewer, because the viewer creates their own canon in what they accept to be valid. Multiple viewers can have contrary "canonical meanings" and have all of them be "correct". His complaint is that those in the "the movies are supposed to be boring" camp are disregarding his personal reading to immediately denounce his opinion, skipping the "convince the poster otherwise" aspect.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:06
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Noam Chomsky posted:That's kind of a bad move when the audience is primed to believe the Jedi are good and knowledgeable and competent, and are shown to be many times. In the OT? Not really. Obi-Wan is a liar and a manipulator who hides both of Luke's living family members from him. Yoda's good at the Force but he also thinks the only way to win is to kill someone.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:07
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KaptainKrunk posted:The fact is a lot of stuff really did go over the audience's head, or clashed with their preconceived notions of what they imagined should have happened and was thus rejected as bad or a mistake or sloppy writing by Lucas. If the majority of viewers believe that the correct reading is "this was a mistake or poorly thought out" then for the most part that is the correct reading. You can have a different personal reading and that one would also be correct, but viewer interpretation trumps authorial intent. Don't seek the dissent-halting Author's Intent, seek the persuasive "words what make them agree with mine" There is nothing that says Death of the Author cannot swing both ways.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:09
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The only thing I would really mind is people going to great lengths to justify whatever criticisms of the prequel trilogy come up without extending that same courtesy to The Force Awakens. There seem to be these pictures established in some minds of George Lucas as this brooding auteur genius and J. J. Abrams as a hollow corporate stooge. That's just silly. They're both accomplished filmmakers with different takes on the material. Both the prequel films and The Force Awakens have their failures and their strong points.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:12
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Neurolimal posted:If the majority of viewers believe that the correct reading is "this was a mistake or poorly thought out" then for the most part that is the correct reading. Your mistake here is assuming there is a correct reading.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:13
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computer parts posted:In the OT? Not really. Obi-Wan is a liar and a manipulator who hides both of Luke's living family members from him. Yoda's good at the Force but he also thinks the only way to win is to kill someone. Well from my point of view the Jedi are good.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:13
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computer parts posted:Your mistake here is assuming there is a correct reading. That was the point of the post, yes. "They're wrong and stupid" doesn't make a reading not the majority reading, nor does it make their reading wrong. No matter how many words crash against the rocks of Popular Consensus.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:17
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I think the fact that Lucas chose to make the prequels at all is pretty good evidence that the Jedi are intentionally portrayed as flawed. What other question is there to answer in three movies about characters we know to be doomed than "what went wrong?" If the prequels aren't about institutional decay and failure, then all they're about is how awesome and cool Palpatine is. Make no mistake, Palpatine IS awesome and cool, but primarily he's an opportunist taking advantage of a galaxy that's been left ripe for the picking by its "guardians". If I may quote the CineD credo, "It's not subtext, it's just text."
General Dog fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 23:18
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Neurolimal posted:That was the point of the post, yes. "They're wrong and stupid" doesn't make a reading not the majority reading, nor does it make their reading wrong. No matter how many words crash against the rocks of Popular Consensus. There's a difference between "not a wrong reading" and "the correct reading".
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Jan 8, 2016 23:19
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computer parts posted:In the OT? Not really. Obi-Wan is a liar and a manipulator who hides both of Luke's living family members from him. Yoda's good at the Force but he also thinks the only way to win is to kill someone. From a certain point of view!
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Jan 8, 2016 23:20
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Phylodox posted:The only thing I would really mind is people going to great lengths to justify whatever criticisms of the prequel trilogy come up without extending that same courtesy to The Force Awakens. There seem to be these pictures established in some minds of George Lucas as this brooding auteur genius and J. J. Abrams as a hollow corporate stooge. That's just silly. They're both accomplished filmmakers with different takes on the material. Both the prequel films and The Force Awakens have their failures and their strong points. The problem with TFA is it goes by so quickly, with such a heavy focus on breakneck action scenes and a deliberate aversion to anything which might make people cry about 'space politics!!' (i.e. context) that there's not really a ton to speak about; we don't know what Kylo Ren's deal is, nor Luke's, Leia had most of her scenes cut, the climax of the film is a tedious retread of the original film - pushing away room for anything novel or interesting to happen. It's exciting enough to watch for the most part but as a stand-alone film it does feel pretty hollow
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Jan 8, 2016 23:23
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computer parts posted:There's a difference between "not a wrong reading" and "the correct reading". There is also a difference between "is the" and "for the most part is the". If you ask the majority (most) of people what they thought of the prequels they would not say "Jar was good as the protagonist of the series, and I cry every time i hear Dexter Jettster's bigotry towards 'the robohelp'".
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Jan 8, 2016 23:27
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Neurolimal posted:There is also a difference between "is the" and "for the most part is the". If you ask the majority (most) of people what they thought of the prequels they would not say "Jar was good as the protagonist of the series, and I cry every time i hear Dexter Jettster's bigotry towards 'the robohelp'". You've identified a reading that is not "correct". This doesn't mean there is a correct reading.
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Jan 8, 2016 23:29
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