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punk rebel ecks posted:Okay, that was a terrible example, but my point still stands he often says "wouldn't it be nice if *insert something here we have negative relations with" were better. Russia is literally the only country in the world that he's been beating the drum of improved friendship for. All other countries are ignored, or have been plotting our downfall under the weak Obama administration. Hello China, Mexico, and Muslim majority nations.
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Feb 26, 2017 16:01
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Gyges posted:Russia is literally the only country in the world that he's been beating the drum of improved friendship for. All other countries are ignored, or have been plotting our downfall under the weak Obama administration. Hello China, Mexico, and Muslim majority nations. Trump follows the Russians in diplomatic style. Russia doesn't have friends, they have vassal states or 'clients'. Even under the previous Russia friendly government in Ukraine they routinely felt the need to stomp the boot (winter gas supplies) and they also have a history of loving with Mongolia which is probably the single most Russian friendly nation there is. Trump is following this style with old US allies and while I agree that NATO members need to contribute their share it's all threats and boot stomping diplomacy.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:11
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Demiurge4 posted:Trump follows the Russians in diplomatic style. Russia doesn't have friends, they have vassal states or 'clients'. Even under the previous Russia friendly government in Ukraine they routinely felt the need to stomp the boot (winter gas supplies) and they also have a history of loving with Mongolia which is probably the single most Russian friendly nation there is. It's a dumb thing to do as the face and voice of the United States. The US, traditionally, views the world through the perception of friendly states, client states, and enemy states. Stomping it's feet and demanding attention is Russia's M.O. because they're a former Superpower that's fallen in status. The fact that Trump is a dumb idiot who doesn't understand soft power and influence peddling isn't a good thing just because he does understand strong man bravado. Regardless of the ethics/morality of the actions, the traditional US method of enforcing it's hegemony is far more efficient and effective than trying to copy the tactics of one of the failed Superpowers. It just speeds China's rise and hastens the slipping of American influence. Just on the Mexico front, all Trump has accomplished is that the Mexican government now is hemmed in by popular sentiment in any future NAFTA renegotiation to give Trump nothing. Which I guess is good if you don't actually want to renegotiate NAFTA, but bad if you want to do absolutely anything at all with your third largest trading partner and southern neighbor. I'm surprised that Trump hasn't started talking poo poo about Canada just to make sure all 5 of our largest trading partners are on adversarial or apprehensive footing with us.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:52
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Gyges posted:I'm surprised that Trump hasn't started talking poo poo about Canada just to make sure all 5 of our largest trading partners are on adversarial or apprehensive footing with us. He would, but after PM Justin Trudeau completely and repeatedly no-sold the patented Trump Grab-n-Jerk, well, like they say about the Russians, they're either at your throat or your feet.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:48
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punk rebel ecks posted:The episode was pretty weak. A lot of the "Pro-Putin Trump clips" were taken out of context. Yes, he said it wouldn't be great if we got a long with Putin, but he said during a long list of "wouldn't it be great if we got along with *insert nation/group the US has poor relations with*?" Did you watch the whole episode? Aside from the fact that Trump has not banged the drum of better relations with most countries (and in fact has been antagonizing them), the issue is what doing so with Russia would entail in terms of policy and actions. What Russia wants is not good for a lot of other countries, let alone our own interests.
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Feb 27, 2017 00:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:What a cunning argument. I'm a cunning linguist
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Feb 27, 2017 02:26
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huge pile of hamburger posted:I'm a cunning linguist Well done sir! 
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Feb 27, 2017 03:42
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Ya'll better vote Mike.
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Feb 27, 2017 07:21
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Dragonrah posted:Ya'll better vote Mike. Mike is the People's Lobster.
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Feb 27, 2017 08:30
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See, show wasn't entirely about Trump. And it was good. So quit whining.
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Feb 27, 2017 12:10
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I'm sure Trump will veto any healthcare bill that doesn't cover everyone  Good episode though.
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Feb 27, 2017 12:34
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I hope the specific threat of people losing their insurance or having to pay higher premiums will be more potent fuel for town hall anger than the vague "muddy the waters" threats of what Obamacare might do have had eight years ago. It's still highly likely that Republicans will ultimately succeed in changing to healthcare law to the point where they can argue that they successfully "repealed" Obamacare. If they fail... great. But if they succeed, it would probably mean Trump will have to backpedal on his lip service about preserving some of the ACA's least controversial parts. Trump has shown he's taking the path of least resistance and largely deferring to Congressional Republicans on what health care policy will actually entail. I do wonder how many will think Obamacare "wasn't so bad" in hindsight once it's gone. Echo Chamber fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 16:18
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That clip about the death panels and crowd booing/etc. was surreal.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:37
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I mean even a group living in a giant garbage can city like New Port Richey can identify that the death panel thing is ludicrous, and doubly so to boo the gently caress out of HSAs.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:49
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What did people even think a "death panel" was?
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Feb 27, 2017 17:14
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tsob posted:What did people even think a "death panel" was? The republicans presented it as a bunch of committee suits deciding to cut your health care if you were too old or whatever. Basically a bunch of penny pushers would get to override your doctor because public money!
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Feb 27, 2017 17:20
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Demiurge4 posted:The republicans presented it as a bunch of committee suits deciding to cut your health care if you were too old or whatever. Basically a bunch of penny pushers would get to override your doctor because public money! As opposed to a bunch of committee suits deciding to not cover essential treatments because they'd cut into profits too much. That was the thing that was the most hosed up to me about the "death panel" poo poo. Insurance companies already do that.
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Feb 27, 2017 17:38
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tsob posted:What did people even think a "death panel" was? There was a provision in the ACA about End of Life counseling and that is where the death panel thing came from.
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Feb 27, 2017 19:09
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Yeah, there was the end of life counseling and some people discussed it in terms of it being potentially cost saving. I.e., maybe with end of life counseling a family will decide to put their 98 year old grandma with a brain tumor in hospice care instead of doing ridiculously expensive surgeries and chemo in the hope that she would live an extra 2 months with terrible quality of life. Which the republicans then claimed that it meant that your 98 grandma would have to go in front of a panel who would decide if she would live or die.
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Feb 27, 2017 20:27
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joepinetree posted:Yeah, there was the end of life counseling and some people discussed it in terms of it being potentially cost saving. I.e., maybe with end of life counseling a family will decide to put their 98 year old grandma with a brain tumor in hospice care instead of doing ridiculously expensive surgeries and chemo in the hope that she would live an extra 2 months with terrible quality of life. Which the republicans then claimed that it meant that your 98 grandma would have to go in front of a panel who would decide if she would live or die. It's more than cost-savings. From what I've heard, most doctors will also talk about quality of life. So maybe Grandma might live only another week without chemo, but she'll be mostly lucid and able to say goodbye to everyone.
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Feb 27, 2017 20:30
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ItalicSquirrels posted:It's more than cost-savings. From what I've heard, most doctors will also talk about quality of life. So maybe Grandma might live only another week without chemo, but she'll be mostly lucid and able to say goodbye to everyone. Death with dignity = OBLAMMO'S COMIN FOR GRANDMA!!!
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Feb 27, 2017 20:53
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Legalized suicide for terminally ill or depressed people would be a net positive for the world. It frightens the hell out of me that one day I might have to actually shoot myself in the head to "die with dignity".
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Feb 27, 2017 21:08
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precision posted:Legalized suicide for terminally ill or depressed people would be a net positive for the world. It frightens the hell out of me that one day I might have to actually shoot myself in the head to "die with dignity". I figure at least it's fast, but it does make quite a mess. Wait... terminally depressed? Hold on there sparky. That's not in any way an ok idea.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:30
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precision posted:Legalized suicide for terminally ill or depressed people would be a net positive for the world. It frightens the hell out of me that one day I might have to actually shoot myself in the head to "die with dignity". Terminally ill people yes, depressed people, absolutely not, what the gently caress is wrong with you? Speaking as somebody who's attempted suicide and subsequently survived, and got treatment for undiagnosed depression and anxiety, we can loving treat depression. What the actual gently caress?!
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Feb 27, 2017 21:31
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Both my parents died of cancer over a very long-drawn out period of time. I think I was 18 when my dad first passed out in front of me and 29 when my mom finally kicked it. They just kept getting it wrong and it was really expensive, and I remember pretty clearly when they cracked my dad's chest to get some tumor in his lung, because I was at work and someone had to drive me to the hospital, and they were like "UHHH holy poo poo, we messed this up entirely and he's just FILLED with tumors" (mesothelioma) and there was nothing they could do realistically, so they just sent him home, with some bonus Shingles. lol Then my mom got breast cancer which traveled to her lungs, blood, liver, kidneys and brain. And I always had all these thoughts like I wish they had had the option to die with dignity. They gave my mom MRSA and she drove off a fricking bridge, and all she wanted to do was watch Fox news which made no sense, But I'm 100% sure that my dad would have chosen to die with dignity, instead of this cracked-ribs, cancer-filled, shingles all over his back, and getting drugs in suppositories.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:34
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stone cold posted:Terminally ill people yes, depressed people, absolutely not, what the gently caress is wrong with you? We can trade anecdotes all day (I also have had Stuff Happen) but at the end of the day I do think that it is legitimately possible to want to end your life for reasons other than physical pain and discomfort. People with terminal cancer can just pop Oxycodone all day, but what if they don't want to?
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Feb 27, 2017 21:41
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DoggPickle posted:Both my parents died of cancer over a very long-drawn out period of time. I think I was 18 when my dad first passed out in front of me and 29 when my mom finally kicked it. They just kept getting it wrong and it was really expensive, and I remember pretty clearly when they cracked my dad's chest to get some tumor in his lung, because I was at work and someone had to drive me to the hospital, and they were like "UHHH holy poo poo, we messed this up entirely and he's just FILLED with tumors" (mesothelioma) and there was nothing they could do realistically, so they just sent him home, with some bonus Shingles. lol drat dude 
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Feb 27, 2017 21:43
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precision posted:We can trade anecdotes all day (I also have had Stuff Happen) but at the end of the day I do think that it is legitimately possible to want to end your life for reasons other than physical pain and discomfort. People with terminal cancer can just pop Oxycodone all day, but what if they don't want to? Ok but that's not being depressed that's having a terminal condition. Are you conflating having quality of life issues with being depressed?
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Feb 27, 2017 21:48
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Die Sexmonster! posted:Death with dignity = OBLAMMO'S COMIN FOR GRANDMA!!! I think its a little unfair to characterize every republican or southerner as an ignorant idiot. It makes me a little proud that even though everyone thinks southerners to be aggressively stupid they're not gonna eat a line of bullshit by their representative regardless that New Port Richey slants red and the rep was a Republican. And I said it before it really cannot be emphasized how much of a fiery garbage can that area is. It is so uncanny to see mention of a city I lived right next to and family lives in mentioned on any national level. So weird. Servaetes fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 22:14
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Dragonrah posted:drat dude Err.sorry mate. It's a true story but I tried to make it palatable? I thought that Homeland was really funny (interesting) because it was so based on where I live. When I make jokes that like 90% of the people I know work for the government, are IN the government or are too secret to tell you exactly where they ae in the government. That poo poo is true. On homeland, that FBI guy is like "how many people in NoVa have security clearances" and it really is Like EVERYONE. Most of the people that I know have "top secret" which is utter BS. Top secret basically means that you aren't vulnerable to blackmail by Russia. Lol. The FBI. the CIA, the NSA, Raytheon and Northup Grummund, the backbone of the internet for the entire east coast, the fricking Pentagon is in Virginia.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:30
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IRQ posted:Ok but that's not being depressed that's having a terminal condition. I am, depression and other mental illnesses can dramatically affect quality of life and treating them often involves sustained hard work (be it therapy, cbt, drugs with sometimes terrible side effects). Depression isn't terminal in every case, but it has a clear progression path that can lead to death (suicide). Given people are already killing themselves (32,533 americans killed themselves in 2005 - I don't imagine the numbers have changed much) I don't think it's unreasonable to give people access to a safe method of doing so if they've got to the point where they don't want to keep fighting provided the process involves consultations with doctor / therapist and there is a fixed delay between initial consultation and the death (I.E a month so that you can't just walk in and buy some pills).
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Feb 27, 2017 22:49
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Here in Canada we have dying with dignity legislation now but since Healthcare is applied at a provincial level some provinces are nicer about it than others. I was attending a Christian university at the time it was being finalized and turned into a law and boy let me tell you about the discussions I witnessed. I was taking an ethics class and our professor invited a heart surgeon to talk about dying with dignity legislation around the world. This man proved to me that stereotypes are real, he was talking about how they don't have amazing palliative networks in places like Belgium anymore because they can just have you sign a form and shoot you up the next day. Claimed that in Canada our robust palliative care network would erode because it's easier to convince families and patients that "it's better this way". He went on some long-winded speech about how it is against a doctor's code to willingly kill a patient, something about how patients that may apply for an early death could live longer than they think (he provided some anecdotes, one involving some American granny staying alive so she could see her grandson baptized in her room). However my favourite is when he brought up euthanasia and Nazi Germany. Apparently allowing people who live in constant pain or don't want their families to see them fade away is one goose step away from the Third Reich. I asked a question of if he seriously believed our palliative networks would just fall apart without any push back and he said "absolutely, we already let it happen with legalized abortions and contraception. Now we're letting it happen again". After that I sat thinking to myself "I seriously hope no one in my family ever has you for a surgeon" I honestly hope that man has to be responsible for some people applying for dying with dignity because gently caress him and gently caress the dogma he represents.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:13
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joepinetree posted:... Which the republicans then claimed that it meant that your 98 grandma would have to go in front of a panel who would decide if she would live or die. You would never get to actually see that panel. Also it would actually be a computer.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:23
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It's difficult, like I know for absolute sure that my dad would rather have passed away with some overdose of morphine than been the laughing stock, making weird clucking noises will pills shoved up his butt. It wasn't dignified and I held his hand while it went cold and he died. We need some serious dignity in death legislation.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:26
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precision posted:We can trade anecdotes all day (I also have had Stuff Happen) but at the end of the day I do think that it is legitimately possible to want to end your life for reasons other than physical pain and discomfort. People with terminal cancer can just pop Oxycodone all day, but what if they don't want to? Dignity in death is a totally different issue from clinical depression and conflating the two is actively harmful. I'm fortunate enough to live in a right to die state, and I think people with terminal diseases absolutely have the right to choose a dignified end. This is a totally dissimilar issue from whether people with clinical depression, what the gently caress?!
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Feb 28, 2017 00:09
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stone cold posted:Terminally ill people yes, depressed people, absolutely not, what the gently caress is wrong with you? If someone has received proper psychiatry, attempted a variety of treatments, is of sound mind, taken the time to think about it, and still want to die, a humane, medically supervised option should be available to you - pending review of a death panel, and agreement to being an organ donor.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:10
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It's the last best hope of the libertarian when they come to take the guns and bibles
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Feb 28, 2017 00:15
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DoggPickle posted:Err.sorry mate. It's a true story but I tried to make it palatable? Oh it's not that. I wanted to post a hug smiley but we don't have one?
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Feb 28, 2017 01:05
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TyrantWD posted:If someone has received proper psychiatry, attempted a variety of treatments, is of sound mind, taken the time to think about it, and still want to die, a humane, medically supervised option should be available to you - pending review of a death panel, and agreement to being an organ donor. By definition, the Venn diagram of people with depression and people who are of sound mind is two circles that never overlap.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:09
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I have a feeling that the final replacement for Obamacare is going to be the Affordable Health Care Act that also includes the Republican wet dream of Block Grants. I'm really holding out hope that they actually call it The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and just refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Democrats did not pass a law called Obamacare.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:31
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