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Unwise_Cashew posted:I swear to god, Jesters are the squishest, most suicidally prone characters in this loving game, and I love them for all their terribleness. I've had good success with a jester who has only two jobs: jump backwards and forwards with Finale and Solo constantly, or if someone is afflicted then I'll just stun-lock a single dude in combat while my Jester gradually sings the afflicted back to zero. His other skills are too poo poo to bother with. He only works with other team members that aren't too position sensitive - one of my fave teams is Jester, Man-at-Arms, Houndmaster, Vestal.
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Jan 22, 2016 11:26
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If I get a hellion a high debuff resist, can she resist her own debuffs?
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Jan 22, 2016 12:10
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I don't think so. Its not really worth taking up the trinket spots honestly. Her self-debuffs are annoying, but you use her abilities in ways that they won't affect you. If you notice, Adrenaline rush gives her a buff similar to the debuff she receives on other abilities. So you can Breakthrough, tank a hit or two, and Adrenaline rush to heal 5, purge off any DoTs, and more or less cancel out the debuff.
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Jan 22, 2016 13:37
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Wafflecopper posted:That kind of sucks though, it just means more grinding dungeons you've already beaten to earn money for the stacks of bandages you need. Also there's no incentive to try a dark run in the "darkest dungeon". The crazy stress is enough reason to go fullbright anyway, but I don't see why they can't offer more loot or even special crazy powerful DD-only no-light only trinkets. It's likely not content complete. They clearly couldn't finish in their selected timeline, which is why they turned events and the last merchant class into a "free DLC!". Both were supposed to be in by release. In that "DLC" I would also expect to see some more Darkest Dungeon stuff, and balance changes to jester & leper.
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Jan 22, 2016 13:43
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Jan 22, 2016 14:34
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Wafflecopper posted:That kind of sucks though, it just means more grinding dungeons you've already beaten to earn money for the stacks of bandages you need. Also there's no incentive to try a dark run in the "darkest dungeon". The crazy stress is enough reason to go fullbright anyway, but I don't see why they can't offer more loot or even special crazy powerful DD-only no-light only trinkets. Each DD mission has a 15k gold reward, and completing a DD mission gives you stress relief for the entire roster so it's not like you need to spend that gold on recovery (and vets of DD missions are semi retired anyhow.) That's a lot of bandages.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:35
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Ugh, a badly composed team costed me a lvl 5 MaM, which was my only one. Finding it harder at champion level. Do the random journals found carry over saves?
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Jan 22, 2016 14:41
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Haven't tried the Darkest Dungeon yet, but I found a secret door and in it was a chest that had two of the really expensive gems and Dismas' head. Which was nice.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:03
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My Dismas has about 10 000 gold's worth of querks I want removed from him so pretty soon I'll abandon him to just end up a severed head too I think.Panfilo posted:I don't think so. Its not really worth taking up the trinket spots honestly. Her self-debuffs are annoying, but you use her abilities in ways that they won't affect you. If you notice, Adrenaline rush gives her a buff similar to the debuff she receives on other abilities. So you can Breakthrough, tank a hit or two, and Adrenaline rush to heal 5, purge off any DoTs, and more or less cancel out the debuff. Yah this makes sense. I'm pretty early and don't have lots of great trinkets yet so I had been curious if it was even worth bothering at all over some minor stress reduction thing. I guess I'll stick with stress reduction.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:07
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Broken Cog posted:Nah, the Darkest Dungeon RNG is pretty severe, even in comparison to other offenders, like FTL. I mean, I guess I don't see it? I've played a decent bit of FTL and Dungeon of the Endless and those feel WAY harder and more RNG to me. It took me a long time to finish a run in FTL and in 10 or so hours I still haven't gotten further than floor 9 in Dungeon of the Endless on Easy. MeanwhileI had zero trouble with Darkest Dungeon when I first played it on EA release, never had to dump level 0 parties even once and built up my town and team no problem. Quit soon after to wait for full release, started a new run again now and again have had zero trouble keeping things going with not a single party-dump or trinket-selling exploit or anything, I don't even dismiss heroes (well technically I've dismissed two, but both were fresh recruits who got to 100 Stress in their very first dungeon and had a bad Quirk or two to boot, which was just not worth it - I've never dismissed anyone after quest 2 and on). Darkest Dungeon is way more consistent, you have way more impact on how things go between being able to actually control fights with attacks and items, and you have the ability to flee after a disastrous fight and not lose much if anything (other than gold) compared to FTL and Dungeon of the Endless where there's no alternative at all.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:23
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MinibarMatchman posted:not gonna lie, Arterial Pinch is my most feared non-boss attack in the game, besides if I get extremely unlucky with a constantly replicating Slime brigade. I don't go into cove without a bunch of bandaids or a plague doctor because that drat bleed is brutal. Slimes are relatively slow and low hp. If you can't kill/stun most of them on turn one, then apply a speed boost or bellow at them so you get first round for everybody on the next turn to finish them up and you will probably avoid slimesplosion.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:52
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Insurrectionist posted:I mean, I guess I don't see it? I've played a decent bit of FTL and Dungeon of the Endless and those feel WAY harder and more RNG to me. It took me a long time to finish a run in FTL and in 10 or so hours I still haven't gotten further than floor 9 in Dungeon of the Endless on Easy. MeanwhileI had zero trouble with Darkest Dungeon when I first played it on EA release, never had to dump level 0 parties even once and built up my town and team no problem. Quit soon after to wait for full release, started a new run again now and again have had zero trouble keeping things going with not a single party-dump or trinket-selling exploit or anything, I don't even dismiss heroes (well technically I've dismissed two, but both were fresh recruits who got to 100 Stress in their very first dungeon and had a bad Quirk or two to boot, which was just not worth it - I've never dismissed anyone after quest 2 and on). Darkest Dungeon is way more consistent, you have way more impact on how things go between being able to actually control fights with attacks and items, and you have the ability to flee after a disastrous fight and not lose much if anything (other than gold) compared to FTL and Dungeon of the Endless where there's no alternative at all. Yeah. If it was truly and unfairly random you'd see people who are well-experienced at the game losing characters left and right too, but you don't. I'm reasonably confident after watching some streams that most people who cry about its randomness just don't understand the game yet, and a lot of them are so put-off by its difficulty that they're not going to continue trying. Which is a bit of a bummer, but also kind of funny to watch Panfilo posted:
Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 16:06
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The game does get quite a bit harder in the vet/Champ dungeons. And the DD has a very mean change regarding retreating from the dungeon.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:11
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Got a stupidest party member death ever. Remembering the EA, I expected first bosses to be tough fights. Instead, I pretty much murdered the Hag without any problems, massacred the Siren and destroyed the Necromancer. Only the Swine Prince was left. I effortlessly wear him down with Blight and Bleed attacks while Hellian massacres him. He tries to do something with his cleaver, but I actually remembered to upgrade my party members' armors. Nevertheless, the entire party is worn down to few HPs. The Grave Robber says "If I die, don't put me in the ground " after getting reduced to 0 HP. This is the moment when the Hellian's fritz and kills the lumbering mass of pork. Don't worry, little gal, you won't die today. Then the Robber's knife misses the little fucker commanding the large pig. Since the Prince is dead, he only gets to Squeal - it's a joke attack that doesn't do anything except wounding everyone for 0 or 1 HP. Of course, this one HP is enough to kill the hapless Grave Robber. I end the fight a turn later. Turns out there is an achievement for that.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:44
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however bad your luck turns in RNG, at least you have upgrades that stay the same. FTL and even Binding of Isaac (to an extent) always felt like a brand new run from the start for me, and any extra ships/characters were few and far between. I guess it makes sense with DD given how this is a roguelike that actually has a "progression" that carries onward for a long-rear end time. So, it makes it nice for something you can play in bursts and you're always improving something. If this was on mobile platforms it'd actually be really loving cool.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:48
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Did the Ancestor lie? So in the end he never ran away, never killed himself, him and the Eldrich god were basically homies yet for some reason he still needs his heirs to come sort this out to wake up the Eldrich god? Why doesn't he do that?
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Jan 22, 2016 16:54
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Panfilo posted:Did the Ancestor lie? it's not the Ancestor, it's the Heart using his image to taunt you.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:59
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The Deleter posted:it's not the Ancestor, it's the Heart using his image to taunt you. Yes and no. The Ancestor is very definitely dead, and the apparition you fight has little to do with the Ancestor as he was in life, but I think it's safe to assume that it is in fact what became of him. Whether or not that makes it the Ancestor is open to interpretation. It's a classic paradox: if I have the axe of my grandfather, but over the years its head had to be replaced and its handle peered too deeply into the fabric of reality and succumbed to the dread truth of an eldritch god to become its undying avatar, is it still my grandfather's axe?
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Jan 22, 2016 17:30
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What is the worst party composition? Challenge level: no duplicate adventurers
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Jan 22, 2016 17:38
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Gabriel Pope posted:Yes and no. The Ancestor is very definitely dead, and the apparition you fight has little to do with the Ancestor as he was in life, but I think it's safe to assume that it is in fact what became of him. Whether or not that makes it the Ancestor is open to interpretation. It's a classic paradox: if I have the axe of my grandfather, but over the years its head had to be replaced and its handle peered too deeply into the fabric of reality and succumbed to the dread truth of an eldritch god to become its undying avatar, is it still my grandfather's axe? I kind of figured there's two ancestors, or at least the same ancestor split into two personalities. There's Bad Decisions Ancestor who did all that monstrous stuff and whose spirit lives on in the Heart, and there's Remorseful Human Ancestor who wrote you that letter, killed himself at the end, and gets vigorously excited as you purge evil, revive the hamlet, and generally do good human things. Given the quantity of necromancy and ghosts that exist in this setting, I see no reason not to believe he's still around in some level as well, haunting you like a dignified mustachioed Jiminy Cricket.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:39
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Normal Adult Human posted:What is the worst party composition? Challenge level: no duplicate adventurers Arbalest, Jester, Leper, Graverobber. Arbalest almost doesn't make the cut because she has a sweet camp buff, but not being able to hit rank 1 reliably is terrible.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:42
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Wafflecopper posted:The last mission ends the game, but there are four in the Darkest Dungeon. I don't see why they couldn't make it an interesting choice instead of just "bring all the torches you can because lots of the mobs drain light and there's no incentive to play in the dark." I'm pretty sure having a dude with the Lurker Quirk and holding a Moon Ring is one of the highest (if not the highest) DPS options you can have. Of course at the risk of major stress damage and in the Darkest Dungeon, well... 
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Jan 22, 2016 17:43
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Arbalest, Jester, Leper, Graverobber.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:48
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MinibarMatchman posted:however bad your luck turns in RNG, at least you have upgrades that stay the same. FTL and even Binding of Isaac (to an extent) always felt like a brand new run from the start for me, and any extra ships/characters were few and far between. I guess it makes sense with DD given how this is a roguelike that actually has a "progression" that carries onward for a long-rear end time. So, it makes it nice for something you can play in bursts and you're always improving something. If this was on mobile platforms it'd actually be really loving cool. I guess a better way to put it is all these games can gently caress you over with RNG, but in Darkest Dungeon getting hosed by RNG isn't the end-all be-all thing that it is in most of these other games. If you get completely hosed in FTL it means you're gonna run into an enemy ship you can't beat for whatever reason, and fleeing sends you into a spiral of losses from which you're almost never going to come back, if you even manage to flee. At which point you start over. In Darkest Dungeon you just have so many fail-safes that being hosed over by RNG isn't nearly as big a deal. I've had one party-wipe and lost another 2 characters over the course of ~85 weeks in my current playthrough so far, and yeah it sucks losing the characters and, often, trinkets you worked on. But unless you really neglected building a big group of characters you should pretty much be ready to go straight back out again without being slowed down too much. And being hosed over is very rare - those losses account for 3 weeks, additionally I've had to abandon two quests with no character losses and had one run succeed but with terrible cost-efficiency because my guys got so stressed out and got lots of quirks. Now take into account one of those times was my own fault for using the Shambler's Alter and that's 5 times I was 'hosed' by the RNG - not always too badly - in 85 runs.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:48
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Arbalest, Jester, Leper, Graverobber. I would take this to its logical extreme and load up on 4 back row characters: Arbalest, Plague Doctor, Vestal, Occultist (I'm assuming that we're looking at relatively "optimal" party orders, because sticking a Leper in back and an Arbalest in front seems like cheating.)
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Jan 22, 2016 17:48
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Arbalest, Jester, Leper, Graverobber. I love Arbalest, not being able to hit rank one has never been more than a minor nuisance while cleaning up an already completely won fight for me.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:49
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My arbalest is my favourite person in the barracks right now. I'm speaking from a very early game point of view though, only 2 bosses down.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:51
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Arbalest, Jester, Leper, Graverobber. You've got enough movement abilities to keep the leper in front and your jester and gr jumping around. Arbalist, vestal, occultist, jester Edit: Gabriel Pope posted:I would take this to its logical extreme and load up on 4 back row characters: Arbalest, Plague Doctor, Vestal, Occultist (I'm assuming that we're looking at relatively "optimal" party orders, because sticking a Leper in back and an Arbalest in front seems like cheating.) GladRagKraken fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 17:51
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Normal Adult Human posted:What is the worst party composition? Challenge level: no duplicate adventurers Back to Front: Leper - Jester - Occultist - Grave Robber Leper can't do anything, Occ can't heal, Jester just gonna sit there and Jest, GR loses access to her four best moves in Rank 1 Comedy option: replace the Rank 2 Occ with a Rank 2 Arb
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Jan 22, 2016 18:06
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If you have a jester and graverobber the downsides of a leper are gone
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Jan 22, 2016 18:07
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Soothing Vapors posted:Back to Front: Turn 1 is shadow fade and dirk stab, turn 2 finale and another fade and leper is in attack range. Close range occultist also stuns someone so the damage you take will be minimal while you shuffle the party. The leper can just chill and cast revenge s couple times while waiting for his invitation to the front.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:08
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imagine 4 arbalests who can only blindfire
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Jan 22, 2016 18:10
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Normal Adult Human posted:If you have a jester and graverobber the downsides of a leper are gone Afraid of Audio posted:imagine 4 arbalests who can only blindfire it haunts my dreams
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Jan 22, 2016 18:11
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Gabriel Pope posted:I would take this to its logical extreme and load up on 4 back row characters: Arbalest, Plague Doctor, Vestal, Occultist (I'm assuming that we're looking at relatively "optimal" party orders, because sticking a Leper in back and an Arbalest in front seems like cheating.) Vestal is actually really good in Rank 2, I've got a melee vestal that is oneshotting dudes in Veteran dungeons  Front row Occ is garbage though and no one will ever convince me otherwise
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Jan 22, 2016 18:14
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GladRagKraken posted:You've got enough movement abilities to keep the leper in front and your jester and gr jumping around. Arbalest/Vestal/Occultist/Jester is a pretty good (bad) combo but the Occultist has no reason to be in slot 2, and a slot 2 Jester is dangerously close to functional. I still like mine better: note that the plague doc is the only DOT and if the doc is DOTing then the occultist is the only functional stun. So you can stun up to 3 enemies, in which case your only offense is a front row vestal (lol) and a standard arbalest, or you can lay down some moderate DOT, in which case you can only stun 1 enemy. And Occultist + PD combo doesn't work unless they're both in the back, which renders the Arbalest non-functional. Soothing Vapors posted:Vestal is actually really good in Rank 2, I've got a melee vestal that is oneshotting dudes in Veteran dungeons Anyone who's not an arbalest can do the same thing though.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:14
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Soothing Vapors posted:it haunts my dreams now imagine they all have rabies and the yips
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Jan 22, 2016 18:25
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Has this new hotfix patch made anyone crash when loading up a game? I left my heroes in the Weald last night and with this patch, I can't boot up the save. It just crashes on the loading screen.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:26
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Normal Adult Human posted:If you have a jester and graverobber the downsides of a leper are gone they let him hit ranks 3 and 4?
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Jan 22, 2016 18:27
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Thinking about it some more I think the only way to get a genuinely bad comp in this game is to load up on multiples of a class that shouldn't be loaded up on. Most classes work pretty well, and in most positions. Gabriel Pope posted:Anyone who's not an arbalest can do the same thing though. They can't do it while being a very effective group healer. The new Profane Scroll really owns and lets her keep pumping out dem healz in R2 Afraid of Audio posted:now imagine they all have rabies and the yips n-no.......... Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 18:28
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I'm having a hard time coming up with a proper front two but whatever the combination, the worst back two are Hellion in 4th rank and Leper in the 3rd. Hellion can't do anything but her buff and breakthrough in 4th rank and is more likely to be faster than the Leper. Switching with him, as she can only move one forward, or using Breakthrough just makes his next turn switching back, Breakthrough doing some damage but also debuffing your hellion in the process. Whoever is in the front ranks needs to be able to move only one space at a time as being able to move two backward is too good for rearranging. This is actually a harder puzzle than I thought because I figured Abomination is worse than Hellion because he really can't do anything in the 4th rank at all. But he can't be partied with the Leper, so there's the rub.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:32
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