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Do we need to limit the number of teams? Not like we're limiting the player pool, we could do however many decide they're interested.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:20
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mentholmoose posted:Do we need to limit the number of teams? Not like we're limiting the player pool, we could do however many decide they're interested. My concern if we have too many teams is it'll be like the nhl one where some lost interest
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Apr 29, 2020 00:38
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you want to have enough teams that we get to see some really interesting historic guys instead of just like, the 15 or so best players in history at each position, but not so many teams that each round of the draft takes 2 weeks to get through, especially if we do go with a 25 man or larger roster 20-24 sounds like a reasonable number imo
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Apr 29, 2020 00:41
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El Gallinero Gros posted:My concern if we have too many teams is it'll be like the nhl one where some lost interest That’ll happen anyway.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:58
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We have 17 teams rn.
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Apr 29, 2020 01:02
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The two hour clock really helps the draft go quick with extra rounds/teams. How long it takes shouldn't be an issue, we can probably get through a round every other day or two. And yeah people will lose interest no matter what near the end; Llama's right that you'd want to see more random non Hall of Famers get drafted. I'd say give it a couple more days, but we could probably easily do 30 teams. The NHL draft only had two owners leave out of 32 so I don't think it'll be much of an issue.
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Apr 29, 2020 01:37
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How do we deal with things like sleep for a 2-hour clock. Would there be someone you PM/e-mail with a list in case you suspect your turn will come up in the next 8 hours?
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Apr 29, 2020 02:17
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We pause the clock between 10 at night and 10 in the morning. If someone picks at 9:30 PM for example, the next person would have until 11:30 the next morning; and if someone picks overnight the next person would have until noon.
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Apr 29, 2020 02:43
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mentholmoose posted:We pause the clock between 10 at night and 10 in the morning. If someone picks at 9:30 PM for example, the next person would have until 11:30 the next morning; and if someone picks overnight the next person would have until noon. this is how we did it in basketball drafts (and probably the last time I did this in ootp) as well
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Apr 29, 2020 04:52
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Once the dust settles, requesting a repost on the rules: - Roster sizes - DH on/off - Individual Seasons vs. 3 yr snapshot vs. ??? - Maybe a described limit on what constitutes a All-Time player for your franchise. I think of Joe Carter & Paul Molitor as Blue Jays. Brewers and Cleveland fans might disagree. Also, in terms of power level and fun: How try-hard do you want me to be with this? I've got one 25 man roster ready to go where Kelly Gruber is my utility infielder. That's the version where it's only fun for me. I can also go with a roster that features Rance Mulliniks, Craig Grebeck and the O-Dog. I'll have fun either way, so just let me know what I should be building towards. NutShellBill fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 07:55
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man i got blasted and built a spreadsheet I'm too far gone already EDIT: NutShellBill posted:- Maybe a described limit on what constitutes a All-Time player for your franchise. I think of Joe Carter & Paul Molitor as Blue Jays. Brewers and Cleveland fans might disagree. Given that we have a bunch of franchises that aren't even MLB teams it's probably gonna be more of a "draft whoever the gently caress you want" draft than a "Draft a player who played for a specific team" draft TheFlyingLlama fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 07:58
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Couple other things to consider: - Tactics: Things like rotation size, how managers use relivers, how often they steal bases and shift the infield, etc etc. - Stats year: we can do whatever we'd like, from 2020s home run/dingerfest to 1871s singles n' bunts galore. For both of these I'd recommend "neutral everything" which makes it all sort of an average of all MLB's history, but we can make things more or less modern if you all would like. - Ballparks: do we want a generic ballpark for all clubs, or can managers pick their parks? If so, are they limited to historical parks, or can they pick their own name and, more importantly, dimensions (within reason)? - Do we want actual managers, or just a generic one across all teams? - Injuries: how frequent/severe?
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Apr 29, 2020 14:04
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NutShellBill posted:- Maybe a described limit on what constitutes a All-Time player for your franchise. I think of Joe Carter & Paul Molitor as Blue Jays. Brewers and Cleveland fans might disagree. I think you maybe misunderstood the connotations of what this being a "draft" means
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Apr 29, 2020 15:39
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bewbies posted:Couple other things to consider: - Are managerial tactics locked if you select a particular manager, or can they be adjusted for them as well as generics? Propensity to steal and shift and the always thrilling unnecessary-double-switch for example. - Unique ballparks would be cool, maybe not as a part of the draft itself though. Perhaps GMs submit their preferred stadium, and if there's multiple people selecting one then we randomize the winner and the others submit their alternate choice? Either way, no rush to finalize that, but someone hosting games at the Polo Grounds would be nifty. - Stats-wise I'd just avoid either extreme, so that potentially record-setting seasons in either direction feel "real". Although I don't know how well OotP balances historic batting vs historic pitching. If 2004 Barry Bonds faced 1999 Pedro Martinez in 1000 PAs, would a sim on neutral settings tend to "favor" one over the other? What would you expect to deviate more (if either), Barrold's OPS+ or Pedro's ERA-? And was there a firm decision made re: choosing 1 year / average of X consecutive years / whole career? I liked the average option (5 years feels right) so that it wouldn't be as simple as "sort by single-season OPS, ERA, etc, pick best available". That would be still be helpful info to have as a starting point but not entirely determinative. It would also allow for GMs to discount years where injuries impacted a player's performance. I'm thinking Griffey in Cincy, Pujols in Anaheim, and many other cases where we all know that those stretches did not represent the players' true skill. Oh and I'd lobby for no injuries. It's an all-time draft, let's give all the picks a full season of play. Is there a way to use "fatigue" as a general concern, so the sim still gives bench players some occasional starts in place of an aging slugger? kalensc fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 17:35
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Jordan7hm posted:gently caress you kalensc.  The Lynx were awesome, loved taking in a game or two per year when my fam would visit the relatives out in Gloucester.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:41
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bewbies posted:Couple other things to consider: Tactics: This one probably is best neutral. Gets too complex, especially if each team is carrying 12 pitchers and guys who play multiple positions. Stats year: For this one, is it possible to an average of like 1969-2017? Dead ball era stats and the years where the league was jacking around with the mound height would be rough with all the elite pitchers that will be participating. On the other hand, the last couple of juiced ball years have been pretty stupid too. Barry and Hank hitting in 2019 is a fun one-time experiment, but seems to go against the spirit of this activity. Ballparks: I think we should pick our own from current/former stadiums. I'm not sure if it would be more fun to declare before the draft and add that element of strategy or just draft then pick your park to fit your roster. Managers: Generic ones. No one knows how managers and players from different lifetimes would react to each other. Injuries: If there's a way to limit it to 3/4-week max injuries and turn them off for the postseason, that's what I'd do. You want to have some incentive to draft deep, but you don't want to ruin the spirit of the project with Sandy Koufax needing TJS or Bonds tearing an ACL.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:46
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One thing I would be quite against is injuries. It should ideally be like in OOTP's Perfect Team mode - injuries are off, but fatigue is still a thing, so you have to cultivate a good bench to pick up the slack when players get tired, but you don't need to have anything beyond the bench to cover for injuries. This also removes the potential for replacement level players to screw everything up, and leaves it entirely in the hands of the guys you drafted. Tactics should be a thing. The strategy stuff is just sliders (though we should skip tactics for single players and just stick to global ones), and I feel like it's quite important to have your backups set the way you want them. If I pick, like, 1949 Sid Gordon, the AI might just see him as a 3B, but he can still play COF positions because of his history playing them. So I should be able to have Gordon set as my 3B and my LF backup instead of having the AI only see him as a 3B and potentially screwing me over if I don't have another backup LF (because I thought Gordon would be it). For ballparks, I would say either entirely neutral or historical only. I say this based on my experience from the Super-League, a Baseball Mogul goon league which has pretty much no stadium restrictions beyond what the engine sets, and uh, I kinda committed war crimes with that:  And OOTP has less restrictions than Mogul does. So before we tie ourselves into a knot finding reasonable restrictions, let's just nip that in the bud entirely. The stats year should be as vanilla as possible, we don't want to too heavily favor specific archetypes of player. I haven't played enough OOTP to know how picking a manager would work, so I'll punt that question.
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Apr 29, 2020 18:30
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First off, I want to clarify that any potential sim shouldn't impact who you might want to draft. The reason I had for making this thread (before El Gallinero Gros made it a couple days in advance, stealing my thunder entirely  ) was purely as a quarantine time eater and discussion generator. I certainly don't mind the simulation and have a few thoughts on it, but I think we should evaluate teams first and foremost via discussion in thread.bewbies posted:Couple other things to consider: Tactics: If there's an easy way to set this for whole teams in the sim, then by all means; we could leave things neutral and change them if somebody says otherwise. But I'd limit it to simpler ones if you can and leave more complex options neutral. For our discussion and personal evaluation, we could go hog wild with random strategies. Stats year: If you can do a range in the sim I'd recommend post-integration. Coaches: With the NHL draft we picked coaches in the draft, and I'd vote for the same thing here. Given that we're very likely turning team chemistry effects off in a potential sim, I don't think choice of manager really matters for anything other than our discussion. Ballparks: People should be able to choose real ballparks teams in MLB played in for the sim. That way people have control over some of the dimensions Injuries: I agree with TheMcD, injuries should be off but fatigue should still be a thing so the bullpen (if you decide to draft one) and the bench (if you decide to draft one) can get work. kalensc posted:And was there a firm decision made re: choosing 1 year / average of X consecutive years / whole career? Seconding the average option. Though if we do it like the NHL draft we just finished, it would be literally be people choosing if they want a whole career/era/single season when they make their pick.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:56
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mentholmoose posted:First off, I want to clarify that any potential sim shouldn't impact who you might want to draft. The reason I had for making this thread (before El Gallinero Gros made it a couple days in advance, stealing my thunder entirely Well, it was rather vague in the NHL draft from the outset, in terms of minimum # of years. If we simply included a requirement to provide an (X or greater)-year range then it should work ok? Perhaps make a start year and end year column next to the player name column, just so formatting is consistent.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:11
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mentholmoose posted:Tactics: If there's an easy way to set this for whole teams in the sim, then by all means; we could leave things neutral and change them if somebody says otherwise. But I'd limit it to simpler ones if you can and leave more complex options neutral. For our discussion and personal evaluation, we could go hog wild with random strategies. We can do this; I'll set the sim to modern day settings, and managers can give me their adjustments. quote:Stats year: If you can do a range in the sim I'd recommend post-integration. Think I'm in agreement here; I'll average everything from post-integration onwards. So in general, expect more steals, fewer HRs, fewer strikeouts as compared to last season. quote:Injuries: I agree with TheMcD, injuries should be off but fatigue should still be a thing so the bullpen (if you decide to draft one) and the bench (if you decide to draft one) can get work. Pitcher fatigue is always "on" but can be adjusted; I'll suggest "average" so that we might get some old timey 250+ inning seasons. I'll suggest putting player position fatigue on "high" just so we get some rotation in the field also. As for the "3 year average" year, I only suggested that as a way to make decisions about one-year wonders more interesting...it won't make that much of a difference for the all time greats. Like, if you pick 1941 Ted Williams you won't get hit by the fact he had to go fly a Corsair the next few years. bewbies fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 22:15
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IcePhoenix posted:I think you maybe misunderstood the connotations of what this being a "draft" means Yep! Without a doubt. Genuinely thought the idea was All-time by franchise, with the draft existing only to finalize the rosters and settle disputes for players who played for multiple squads! My derp.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:48
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NutShellBill posted:Yep! Without a doubt. You're still gonna draft Rance Mullininks though...
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Apr 30, 2020 01:51
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mentholmoose posted:Ballparks: People should be able to choose real ballparks teams in MLB played in for the sim. That way people have control over some of the dimensions I’m claiming the Vet before you go for it. You can have Citizens Bank Park (which is a nice stadium for the record).
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Apr 30, 2020 01:53
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Duckman2008 posted:I’m claiming the Vet before you go for it. You can have Citizens Bank Park (which is a nice stadium for the record). Please, I'm going for the Baker Bowl, because I have lost my mind.
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Apr 30, 2020 02:42
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mentholmoose posted:Please, I'm going for the Baker Bowl, because I have lost my mind. Ha, no lie, never heard of it (did I mention I don’t follow baseball?). Good to learn.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:08
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So it looks like we have 15 teams and slowing enlistment numbers...I'll take team number 16 for a nice round even number. Ready to finalize the rules etc and start the draft?
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Apr 30, 2020 14:12
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bewbies posted:So it looks like we have 15 teams and slowing enlistment numbers...I'll take team number 16 for a nice round even number. Ready to finalize the rules etc and start the draft? What team shall you be?
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Apr 30, 2020 15:00
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Kansas City Monarchs, of course.
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Apr 30, 2020 15:04
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Ice Phoenix did you want to determine pick order
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Apr 30, 2020 17:39
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Also my thoughts DH for both. Greg Maddux can't hit against Mike Venafro, he's not gonna do better against Satchel Paige. No injuries, chemistry turned off I'll take Petco if possible.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:44
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Here's what I'm tracking/proposing for the setup: Draft - Snake format, drafting 25 players for a full 25 man roster - Runs from 10 am to 10 pm Eastern. Each pick window is 2 hours, starting from the previous pick. Timer stops overnight, so if the previous pick is at 9:45 pm, you have until 11:45 the next day to make your pick. If you miss a pick(s), make it whenever you get back. Can also send a shortlist to someone if you know you'll be gone during your window. - You are drafting a player from a certain year: ie, "1941 Ted Williams." - A player can only be drafted once (ie, once "1941 Ted Williams" is gone, no more Ted Williams) - As a part of your first pick, choose your ballpark. Has to be a current or historical park that housed a MLB team at some point. Players - Players will be either a straight lift from their draft year or a 3 year window averaging around their draft year, dependent on a coinflip. So, you can snag a one-year wonder hoping for that annus mirabilis, but you might get that player's 3 year average around the draft year instead. Note that this is not affected by injury seasons or missed time due to other reasons (ie, WWII) - No injuries, but both pitcher and player fatigue will be on so players will be rotated - Only one pre-1900 player per team - Note: Negro league players are not well represented in the database. I will build these players manually such that they are representative of their historical reputations in a major league environment, ie, Satchel Paige will be Real Good. League - 162 game schedule including All Star Game and Home Run Derby - 18 teams in two 9-team sub leagues (AL/NL) - top 4 teams in each subleague make the playoffs, so an 8 team bracket. Division series best of 5, Championship and World Series best of 7. - DH in both leagues Sim - Stats will be a rough average of post-integration stats - Global tactics will be modern; managers can adjust specific team tactics however they wish - No managers, no team chemistry, no player personalities
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Apr 30, 2020 18:31
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That sounds great.
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Apr 30, 2020 18:35
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Sounds good to me.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:00
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Kick it off at 10am tomorrow? Here's a draft order as determined by Random.org: 1. Minnesota Twins 2. Nippon Ham Fighters 3. New York Mets 4. Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs 5. Sioux Falls Canaries 6. New York Yankees 7. Honkbal Hoofdklasse All Stars 8. Ottawa Lynx 9. Yomiuri Giants 10. Houston Astros 11. Montreal Expos 12. Atlanta Braves 13. Toronto Blue Jays 14. Witchita Jobbers 15. New York Giants 16. Kansas City Monarchs 17. Philadelphia Phillies 18. Hanshin Tigers I'll do a "team photo" for everyone also: GMs, send me a 150x150 team logo and team colors (main/secondary/pinstripes) by either HTML code or RGB.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:00
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IcePhoenix! In honor of their cursed KFC statue, the Hanshin Tigers want to draft a team of baseball's greatest fat guys. Obviously such a team needs Babe Ruth, so how do you feel about swapping our draft order so you have picks 18 & 19 and I have picks 1 & 36, and so forth
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Apr 30, 2020 19:09
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Does the park having to have housed "an MLB team" mean that the team had to have been part of the MLB at the time they played in that park, or does it count if they only later became part of the National League or American League?
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Apr 30, 2020 19:09
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TheMcD posted:Does the park having to have housed "an MLB team" mean that the team had to have been part of the MLB at the time they played in that park, or does it count if they only later became part of the National League or American League? I'd think if it's in OOTP as an MLB park you're good to go
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Apr 30, 2020 19:17
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Aw gently caress
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Apr 30, 2020 19:55
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Also I'm not trading the #1 pick unless you overwhelm me and swapping draft positions is not overwhelming
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Apr 30, 2020 20:10
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I don't really know that there's anything else you can do, short of moving up rounds. Everyone has to have the same number of players in the end.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:13
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