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ironically, if dsa were democratic centralist, once the NPC voted down the fetonte booting the discussion would have had to stop (or more likely DSA would have split) correct me if i'm wrong
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Aug 31, 2017 02:39
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Defenestration posted:what the poo poo is DSA Libertarian Socialist Caucus? guy with anarcho socialist gangtag
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Aug 31, 2017 02:42
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:guy with anarcho socialist gangtag I got that for donating to ACLU which is probably the least anarchist thing one can do
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Aug 31, 2017 02:53
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Impermanent posted:yeah the big diff. between something like dsa and, say, ISO or SAlt is that the latter two orgs attempt to stop their members from critcizing the org in a non-internal way. Whereas there's no kind of gag order of that kind in the DSA (obviously, as this thread and every other online has shown) Which of course has it's pros and cons. On the one hand it makes us look extremely  the moment we have internal problems of any kind.On the other hand, imagine a central committee trying to enforce a gag rule on all 27,000 of us.
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Aug 31, 2017 02:55
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apropos to nothing posted:I just dont get it at all. democratic centralism is literally how like every democratic structure I take part in works its just that only the socialist orgs call it democratic centralism. when my work democratically votes on rules that I dont like I still have to follow the rules while objecting to them and trying to build a case against the rule. in every other context this is understood as just how democracy works but for some reason when socialists do it its very bad. its just yet another perfectly good term/concept ruined by stalin
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Aug 31, 2017 02:57
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Defenestration posted:I got that for donating to ACLU which is probably the least anarchist thing one can do shoulda donated to the national lawyers guild :*(
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Aug 31, 2017 02:58
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apropos to nothing posted:I just dont get it at all. democratic centralism is literally how like every democratic structure I take part in works its just that only the socialist orgs call it democratic centralism. when my work democratically votes on rules that I dont like I still have to follow the rules while objecting to them and trying to build a case against the rule. in every other context this is understood as just how democracy works but for some reason when socialists do it its very bad. probably because government isnt just your work
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Aug 31, 2017 03:00
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Karl Barks posted:ironically, if dsa were democratic centralist, once the NPC voted down the fetonte booting the discussion would have had to stop (or more likely DSA would have split) given that theres nothing stopping people from bringing it up for a vote again i think under the principle of democratic centralism people would only have to shut up about it if danny was booted since that's non-revocable
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Aug 31, 2017 03:00
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Which of course has it's pros and cons. On the one hand it makes us look extremely works pretty well when you have an nkvd edit: ^^ yeah that's a good point Karl Barks has issued a correction as of 03:09 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 03:01
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There's already democratic centralism for each local chapter as it is centralized around that chapter. Nationally it should not be centralized as that would mute the local chapter's power. Centralizing a large group of different people is an arduous task and puts the crux of functionality on a system that can only bear so much weight before it becomes ineffective or even counter productive. ThndrShk2k has issued a correction as of 04:18 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 03:13
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Karl Barks posted:my understanding of democratic centralism is that the last bit of this sentence is not the case, as that causes factionalism which is what democratic centralism is explicitly trying to prevent I cant speak for other orgs but we have rules written into our constitution that set out how to go about forming caucuses or tendencies, especially for minority positions. I think a lot of people either forget or dont realize that Lenin and his clique were a small minority faction in the bolsheviks until after the february revolution and the publishing of the april theses.
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Aug 31, 2017 03:30
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Process Respecter here, just wanted to say i respect the process and if there's enough people to call for a special convention, we should have one seems like having an entire convention just to tell danny to log off is a little silly but that ain't really my call edit: also my major criticism of "this is just Very Online People slapping their red nude asses at each other and doesn't matter" isn't really helped wrt everything about Danny being Official Twitter Statements Business Gorillas has issued a correction as of 03:45 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 03:39
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As much as I dislike Danny, if people put half the effort into smashing the system as they do bitching online, we'd be living in a glorious socialist utopia by now.
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Aug 31, 2017 03:56
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They'd just get confused half way through and vote Democrat
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Aug 31, 2017 03:59
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rudecyrus posted:As much as I dislike Danny, if people put half the effort into smashing the system as they do bitching online, we'd be living in a glorious socialist utopia by now. buddy if posting online could bring down the state we'd be a decade into the glorious utopia by now at least
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Aug 31, 2017 04:01
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rudecyrus posted:As much as I dislike Danny, if people put half the effort into smashing the system as they do bitching online, we'd be living in a glorious socialist utopia by now. everyone i know bitching about it online is chapter leadership that does more organizing than the vast majority of general membership lol
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Aug 31, 2017 04:03
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ah, they've done good things so the bad things they do aren't as bad
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Aug 31, 2017 04:07
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apropos to nothing posted:I just dont get it at all. democratic centralism is literally how like every democratic structure I take part in works its just that only the socialist orgs call it democratic centralism. when my work democratically votes on rules that I dont like I still have to follow the rules while objecting to them and trying to build a case against the rule. in every other context this is understood as just how democracy works but for some reason when socialists do it its very bad. they seem to think that democratic centralist orgs never change positions on anything ever and attempting to do so internally gets you shot out of a cannon while the ghost of stalin strokes his moustache
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Aug 31, 2017 04:09
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TrilliontonNixon posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism well, if nothing else, the name is a devastating self-own by anarchists
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Aug 31, 2017 04:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:well, if nothing else, the name is a devastating self-own by anarchists nah, they're taking lib back
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Aug 31, 2017 04:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:well, if nothing else, the name is a devastating self-own by anarchists To be honest we really ought to just use "anarchists" from now on, at least in anglophone countries. I mean what are we worried about? That the term comes with negative connotations? We're already dirty reds anyway so that ship has sailed.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:18
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Tea Party Libertarians intentionally hijacked the name 'libertarian', because that's what right wingers do to every bit of leftist rhetoric that they can get away with. Libertarian socialism existed well before the current crop of self-identified american libertarians. Ancaps are trying the same stuff with anarchism btw.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:18
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Someone make the you are ALL liberals comic into a t shirt
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Aug 31, 2017 04:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:well, if nothing else, the name is a devastating self-own by anarchists holy poo poo are you that girl from twitter
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Aug 31, 2017 04:19
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TrilliontonNixon posted:To be honest we really ought to just use "anarchists" from now on, at least in anglophone countries. I mean what are we worried about? That the term comes with negative connotations? We're already dirty reds anyway so that ship has sailed. Counterpoint : the reactions are funny to me.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:21
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freckle posted:Counterpoint : the reactions are funny to me. this is important
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Aug 31, 2017 04:23
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freckle posted:Counterpoint : the reactions are funny to me. the bitcoin of weed posted:this is important 
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Aug 31, 2017 04:28
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i used to want to come to a resolution regarding danny fetonte but the pavlovian stimulus i get from rt's and faves is just too potent
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Aug 31, 2017 04:31
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Welp, I guess it was only a matter of time http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/29/americas-democratic-socialist-party-is-in-turmoil-and-it-all-revolves-around-one-police-union-organizer/
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Aug 31, 2017 04:44
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Welp, I guess it was only a matter of time my reaction to this story is: i want that pentagon ussr pin
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Aug 31, 2017 04:52
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That seems like a very level-headed and informed article for the daily loving caller.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:03
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im a member of the democratic socialist party
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Aug 31, 2017 05:04
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big black turnout posted:im a member of the democratic socialist party this might be a "shitpost" now but after the Terminally Online schism this is definitely going to be a thing
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Aug 31, 2017 05:12
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Raskolnikov38 posted:my reaction to this story is: i want that pentagon ussr pin do you one better
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Aug 31, 2017 05:22
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Internet Explorer posted:That seems like a very level-headed and informed article for the daily loving caller. Well, their claim that "thousands" have signed on to the dues strike is straight up not true. According to the Google doc it's somewhere between 600 and 650 as of today.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:47
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rudecyrus posted:As much as I dislike Danny, if people put half the effort into smashing the system as they do bitching online, we'd be living in a glorious socialist utopia by now. i put more evfort into that than bitching but it turns out youre wrong and the system is pretty stubbourn
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Aug 31, 2017 05:49
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most people think of anarchists even worse than idiot american 'libertarians', unfortunately
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Aug 31, 2017 05:53
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Cool
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Aug 31, 2017 05:56
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Man I can't imagine how bummed out Lenin would've been if he'd known that a century after the revolution his likeness would be turned into a commodity.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:10
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After attending a city council meeting that also got mired in hours of parliamentary procedure designed to gently caress over a clear majority of public support for a certain initiative, I suddenly feel a lot better about the state of the DSA.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:26
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