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OwlFancier posted:To my understanding the Falklands very much do not want to be a part of Argentina, I think it's like 95%+ in favour of being a UK territory. Yes, the white english settlers living on the Falklands are in favour of the Falklands belonging to the UK. Probably 100% of them.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:40
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It's a more convincing argument than "it's near to us and we want its seabed stuff."
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Jun 10, 2023 16:47
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Peggotty posted:Yes, the white english settlers living on the Falklands are in favour of the Falklands belonging to the UK. Probably 100% of them. The islands weren't inhabited until the europeans showed up as far as I'm aware, and settlements were fairly sporadic until 19th century dick wagging became relevant. So the only competing arguments you can make are either what the people living there want, and pretty borders. There's no native population of the islands to make a claim unless you count the penguins. In which case covering the entire thing in landmines would be an option.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:48
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OwlFancier posted:In which case covering the entire thing in landmines would be an option. That sounds like a good option for most of the UK
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Jun 10, 2023 16:50
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Peggotty posted:Yes, the white english settlers living on the Falklands are in favour of the Falklands belonging to the UK. Probably 100% of them. I agree, return Thrace and Anatolia to Greece.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:50
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BonHair posted:That sounds like a good option for most of the UK The seagulls are perfectly capable of holding their own against the other occupants of the british isles. And arguably without nearby targets they would only become more belligerent against france.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:53
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Byzantine posted:I agree, return Thrace and Anatolia to Greece. Greece has a much better case than Argentina.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:54
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Private Speech posted:Yes, from NMI (US). More generally it's just a higher standard of living there compared to say Vanuatu. famous home of "Made In USA" textiles
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Jun 10, 2023 17:03
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What's remarkable is how much Argentina has pumped up its own nationalism into its imperialist lust for a bit of territory it tried to conquer and got beaten bad on. Anyways, maps.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iEamkj0C-8
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Jun 10, 2023 17:08
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OwlFancier posted:The islands weren't inhabited until the europeans showed up as far as I'm aware, and settlements were fairly sporadic until 19th century dick wagging became relevant. So the only competing arguments you can make are either what the people living there want, and pretty borders. There's no native population of the islands to make a claim unless you count the penguins. In which case covering the entire thing in landmines would be an option. So if I go to England and start sitting on an uninhabited mountain, it belongs to me? It can't possibly belong to any European country, given that they don't have people living on it.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:09
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Peggotty posted:So if I go to England and start sitting on an uninhabited mountain, it belongs to me? It can't possibly belong to any European country, given that they don't have people living on it. I mean, personally, yes I think you should be able to live wherever you like. Though most of the mountains are national parks so people might object if you start digging it up to put a house on it. You find a bit that's just some lord's back garden or something yeah you're welcome to it.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:11
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Colonialism isn't about "living wherever you like", Jesus.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:12
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Peggotty posted:So if I go to England and start sitting on an uninhabited mountain, it belongs to me? It can't possibly belong to any European country, given that they don't have people living on it. If the mountain is an island and you've gone back in time before nation states existed, sure.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:13
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The first permanent settlement on the Falklands was dear beloved Port Louis and it was stolen by the english by their wacky forts. Before that there is archaeolgical evidence that thousands of years ago people saw them and went "lol no". All those people are dead. Acting like the Falklands are imperialism today is lmao. All the people and all the sheep want to be british.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:14
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Good thing the Europeans are in the clear because they started colonialism before there were nation states then. Phew!
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Jun 10, 2023 17:17
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99% of everywhere that has had a union jack hoisted on it probably has people with a more legitimate claim and a mountain of bodies to hold the pole up. The falklands are specifically fun because they're like the one bit of land on earth that everybody would assume shouldn't be part of the UK but you really struggle if you try to come up with a good argument as to why beyond making the colours on the map tidier. There's better arguments for cornwall not being part of the UK than the falklands.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:18
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Peggotty posted:Good thing the Europeans are in the clear because they started colonialism before there were nation states then. Phew! there is a difference between colonization of people who exist and an empty rock, you do get that right?  This happened entirely because of an oops-we-accidentally-killed-everyone-and-then-deported-undesirables-into-the-convient-empty-land, for some reason I'm guessing a lot of people who think Las Malvinas son Argentinas also think this is fine for some reason, even though only one of them involved murder and colonization Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 17:21
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Peggotty posted:Good thing the Europeans are in the clear because they started colonialism before there were nation states then. Phew! I guess I don't really understand your argument. They should belong to Argentina because Argentina is the closest country, despite the population not wanting that? Should Barbados have been forced to join Venezuela? Is East Timor Indonesian?
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Jun 10, 2023 17:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:there is a difference between colonization of people who exist and an empty rock, you do get that right? Of course. The Falklands are pretty much the least bad form of colonialism the British did. But that doesn't mean that white people should be allowed to go somewhere and claim land on the southern hemisphere because they think the world istheirs to divide up. EasilyConfused posted:I guess I don't really understand your argument. They should belong to Argentina because Argentina is the closest country, despite the population not wanting that? Should Barbados have been forced to join Venezuela? Is East Timor Indonesian? No, my argument is that white European settlers shouldn't conquer land in the global south no matter who or what is already on it. Antarctica doesn't belong to white settlers either. Peggotty fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 17:24
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The Argentine claim rests on the idea that the Spanish colonised the islands first and therefore it's theirs... Legitimately unless you want to carpet bomb it there is no anti-colonialist claim because there are no native inhabitants.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:28
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Peggotty posted:Of course. The Falklands are pretty much the least bad form of colonialism the British did. But that doesn't mean that white people should be allowed to go somewhere and claim land on the southern hemisphere because they think the world istheirs to divide up. I can't imagine anyone in this thread disagrees with any of that, just not sure why it leads to Argentina being the rightful owners of the Falklands.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:29
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Peggotty posted:Of course. The Falklands are pretty much the least bad form of colonialism the British did. But that doesn't mean that white people should be allowed to go somewhere and claim land on the southern hemisphere because they think the world istheirs to divide up. How do you think Argentina itself came into existence? It's even more  since its population is of overwhelmingly European descent. Most Argentines are effectively 'white settlers' themselves.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:30
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The "Spanish" themselves are white people who just sauntered in. Return Hispania to Greece.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:33
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Yeah, Argentina is the most proudly white and European of the Latin American nations, so they're very explicitly being creative about imagining inherited Spanish territorial claims to the Falklands from before Argentina existed as opposed to any kind of native claims.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:35
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EasilyConfused posted:I can't imagine anyone in this thread disagrees with any of that, just not sure why it leads to Argentina being the rightful owners of the Falklands. I never said anything about Argentina being the rightful owner of anything
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Jun 10, 2023 17:35
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Peggotty posted:I never said anything about Argentina being the rightful owner of anything That makes the last couple dozen posts pretty funny then if everybody was actually just agreeing with each other.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:37
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Peggotty posted:Yes, the white english settlers living on the Falklands are in favour of the Falklands belonging to the UK. Probably 100% of them. Peggotty posted:No, my argument is that white European settlers shouldn't conquer land in the global south no matter who or what is already on it. Antarctica doesn't belong to white settlers either. I agree, the land of Argentina should be returned to it's indigenous peoples, and all settlers removed. Once that happens we can start talking about minor matters like the Falklands.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:39
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I'm really not sure what you want then other than for the people who live on the falklands to just disappear.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:40
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If we wanna do right by the original denizens of the Falklands (penguins), then we should introduce them into the arctic to refill the ecological niche that the Great Auk, the original penguin, had before they were exterminated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7cWtICGgHE
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Jun 10, 2023 17:50
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Peggotty posted:Of course. The Falklands are pretty much the least bad form of colonialism the British did. But that doesn't mean that white people should be allowed to go somewhere and claim land on the southern hemisphere because they think the world istheirs to divide up. I always assumed the "global south" was a useful concept because it referred to people in the global south, not just geography.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:51
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No place should be part of the UK. Bring back the Heptarchy. 
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Jun 10, 2023 17:57
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Why does Mercia, the largest kingdom, not simply eat the other kingdoms?
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Jun 10, 2023 17:59
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FreudianSlippers posted:No place should be part of the UK. Bring back the Heptarchy. 
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Jun 10, 2023 18:00
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has anyone tried to get a poulation of penguins going in the Arctic?
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Jun 10, 2023 18:16
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Didn't know polar bears posted on SA.
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Jun 10, 2023 18:19
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Who cares about stupid nerd poo poo like justice or rightful claims, return las islas malvinas to Argentina because it would make the English hopping mad
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Jun 10, 2023 18:21
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steinrokkan posted:Who cares about stupid nerd poo poo like justice or rightful claims, return las islas malvinas to Argentina because it would make the English hopping mad Ok, I'm onboard now.
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Jun 10, 2023 18:23
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Gott strafe England.
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Jun 10, 2023 18:28
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One thing about the Falklands is that there are stringent immigration controls, to make sure OTOH there isn't much of a point to the Argentine claim either, beyond distance.
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Jun 10, 2023 19:03
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steinrokkan posted:Who cares about stupid nerd poo poo like justice or rightful claims, return las islas malvinas to Argentina because it would make the English hopping mad this is the best argument in this entire discussion.
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Jun 10, 2023 19:08
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